Indian ‘Home-Grown’ AMCA, An Alternative To FGFA

[janon]

There is simply no need for AMCA as it will not add up any new capability over FGFA.So without wasting the allready limited and over-streched human and financial resources,DRDO should concentrate on developing a turbofan powered HALE UCAV based on Rustam UAV and then move on to the next level aka AURA.As of now,the whole nautanki wrt AMCA seems to be just an waste of time and energy.I mean where is the need of a 2nd kind of stealth fighter,when we are gonna get the FGFA anyway??

For the same reason that we need rafales and MKIs together today. Former is in the medium weight category, latter in the heavy category. In future we will have FGFA in the heavy category, and our only stealth fighter int he medium category will be AMCA. The requirement for a medium weight stealth fighter will be felt very badly in about 15-20 years from now, when a large number of medium category aircrafts will have to retire - namely, the jags, mirages and mig 29s. It will be the AMCA that replaces them. Just like we are facing the imminent retirement of a large number of light fighters, and Tejas is delayed, we do not want another similar situation in future when all the said aircrafts have to retire. So it is best to work hard on the AMCA now, rather than start working when there is no more time. This is the perfect time to start work, since it will take 15 years to reach FOC stage, and by then we will have hundreds of medium fighters to be replaced.

Don't be deceived by the ignorant headline. The two aircrafts are not comparable, except that both are 5th gen. They are in different categories, and cannot substitute for each other.

 

[Jayanta]

Yaar pehle LCA bana lo uske baad badi badi baatein karo. LCA to banne se raha chale AMCA banane....DRDO and their fighter projects has made India a laughing stock and object of ridicule.

 

[Dash]

For the same reason that we need rafales and MKIs together today. Former is in the medium weight category, latter in the heavy category. In future we will have FGFA in the heavy category, and our only stealth fighter int he medium category will be AMCA. The requirement for a medium weight stealth fighter will be felt very badly in about 15-20 years from now, when a large number of medium category aircrafts will have to retire - namely, the jags, mirages and mig 29s. It will be the AMCA that replaces them. Just like we are facing the imminent retirement of a large number of light fighters, and Tejas is delayed, we do not want another similar situation in future when all the said aircrafts have to retire. So it is best to work hard on the AMCA now, rather than start working when there is no more time. This is the perfect time to start work, since it will take 15 years to reach FOC stage, and by then we will have hundreds of medium fighters to be replaced.

Don't be deceived by the ignorant headline. The two aircrafts are not comparable, except that both are 5th gen. They are in different categories, and cannot substitute for each other.

Bro after the arrival of unmanned systems, the future you are speaking of which is 15-20 or 25 years from now will be filled with unmanned strike systems. At that juncture of time, I can just go ahead with more PAKFA, and fill the medium category with both manned and unmanned systems. AMCA will be obsolete in 20 years, just right after its inducted (if).

We need to divert our energy from AMCA and put it all on AURA.

 

[soumya1989]

Yaar pehle LCA bana lo uske baad badi badi baatein karo. LCA to banne se raha chale AMCA banane....DRDO and their fighter projects has made India a laughing stock and object of ridicule.

Do not be so stupid. India learned valuable lessons from this project. Now there is a base where we can utilize our knowledge. And LCA going to be inducted from next year.

 

[janon]

Bro after the arrival of unmanned systems, the future you are speaking of which is 15-20 or 25 years from now will be filled with unmanned strike systems. At that juncture of time, I can just go ahead with more PAKFA, and fill the medium category with both manned and unmanned systems. AMCA will be obsolete in 20 years, just right after its inducted (if).

We need to divert our energy from AMCA and put it all on AURA.

Actually no, unmanned systems are not going to take over manned fighters quite so soon. If that were true, China and USA and Russia would not be working on next gen MANNED fighters. The US is already planning a 6th gen manned fighter, despite having the biggest number of unmanned combat aircrafts currently.

This same logic was applied in the 50s, that the era of manned combat aircrafts was over, and from then on, it would all be done by missiles. The logic failed then, and everybody knows not to take such claims seriously today. Sure, unmanned aircrafts will do some of the work in future, but cannot replace all the thinking and decision making powers that a human pilot's brain can. Not in the next 15-20 years. Maybe in 30 or 40 years, if computational systems evolve so much as to do the work of a brain. But that is plenty of time to have a whole generation of manned combat aircrafts. 6th gen for the USA, and 5th gen for everyone else.

It is way too early to be writing obituaries for manned aviation.

 

[Screambowl]

AMCA? Guys, it is very good to dream but we should see our current situation. How far we are in engine technology, semicodnuctor technology, computational engineering, material science. We might build an AMCA but not better than a normal 4th or 3rd generation craft it will be.

 

[GURU DUTT]

NO!

India Postpones Homegrown Jet Program
India Postpones Homegrown Jet Program | Defense News | defensenews.com


People who state things like the AMCA is gonna be an ALTERNATIVE to the FGFA are simply embarrassing India.

no sir u are wrong please dont treat india like USA , FRance or Russia who were building Fighter jets as earli as 1947 when we got independence we had other things to take care of than making jets ....yes we are slow but we are reaching there tell me the no of commonwealth countries who have showed such determination to build one ...yes we have a problem of beurocracy but that dosent means we should give up all hope ...dont mind but to me guys who abuse there efforts just because they are not at par with others are bigger loosers than who dont dare at all ...peace

First Get that bloody LCA ready.... Then talk about amca 5th gen and all.....

the rome was not built in a day ...at least we are striving for something and we are not theaves hope u get the point ...SIR

 

[nair]

the rome was not built in a day ...at least we are striving for something and we are not theaves hope u get the point ...SIR

I know sir.... I agree with you.... But problem with our guys.... They talk a lot.... most of the time they talk beyond their ability.... and when it comes to result it will be 10% what committed by them.... Thats what frustrates me... otherwise i know making a 4 or 4.5 gen combat aircraft is not every country can do .....

 

[sancho]

What is the status of AMCA project now??

Officially it's on hold now, since MoD wants to put pressure on ADA and DRDO to finish LCA first, which clearly is the best way to go!

Actually no, unmanned systems are not going to take over manned fighters quite so soon. If that were true, China and USA and Russia would not be working on next gen MANNED fighters.

They are, that's why the countries you mentioned are investing so highly in unmanned aircraft programs currently, but they won't take over all roles, which makes manned fighters still needed. Be it deep strikes, SEAD, reconnaissance or CAS, they all will be taken over by drones even today. That's why it's more important to develop AURA next to FGFA, than AMCA, because as Dash said correctly, it won't add any capability to IAF, where AMCA would be better than FGFA!
AURA on the other side will be more stealthy, more cost-effective, more suitable for strike, recon or EW roles in enemy airspace and with Rustom H and it's armed varient, IAF also gets the necessary lower end drones to supplement in recon and CAS roles.
FGFA will be a hell of a fighter and we definitely need to focus on getting more of them into IAF for air defence and air superiority and not to compromise with AMCA, because of indigenous pride. And behind FGFA there still will be highly capable Super 30s and Rafales, which basically leaves not even a niche left for AMCA in operational terms.

AMCA? Guys, it is very good to dream but we should see our current situation. How far we are in engine technology, semicodnuctor technology, computational engineering, material science. We might build an AMCA but not better than a normal 4th or 3rd generation craft it will be.

AMCA can be done, but not as an alternative to FGFA, nor can we do it alone. For the navy and with partners like Dassault, Snecma, or Embraer it would be a highly interesting and useful development, but we have to get rid of this indigenous only idea and learn how to prioritise the real requirements of the forces, from wishful dreams of the industry.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

why are we discussing AMCA ? The govt has already freezed funding for that project temporarily so that all focus is on operationalizing tejas

 

[GURU DUTT]

I know sir.... I agree with you.... But problem with our guys.... They talk a lot.... most of the time they talk beyond their ability.... and when it comes to result it will be 10% what committed by them.... Thats what frustrates me... otherwise i know making a 4 or 4.5 gen combat aircraft is not every country can do .....

bhai ji kuch to credit do akhir hum hindustani hi hain

 

[Dash]

Actually no, unmanned systems are not going to take over manned fighters quite so soon. If that were true, China and USA and Russia would not be working on next gen MANNED fighters. The US is already planning a 6th gen manned fighter, despite having the biggest number of unmanned combat aircrafts currently..

The US, Russia (I am excluding China for certain reasons), France, EU have ditched their 5th Gen stealth plane while persuing unmanned system. Europe doesnt have a 5th Gen program, ever wondered why? They are going for unmanned systems as you know.

This same logic was applied in the 50s, that the era of manned combat aircrafts was over, and from then on, it would all be done by missiles. The logic failed then, and everybody knows not to take such claims seriously today. Sure, unmanned aircrafts will do some of the work in future, but cannot replace all the thinking and decision making powers that a human pilot's brain can.

We are not talking about a plane straight out of movie "Stealth". We are talking about pilotless yet remote controlled planes. The human brain is not going anywhere. Its still there. The analogy between fighters and missles you have given is good, but its flawed. Why because these two systems complement each other in modern warefare, it was never designed to replace each other. People who thought that way were not generals. Where in Unmanned systems, you can create the same damage, SEAD, DEAD, with better survibability against oppsition. You might want to check that.

Not in the next 15-20 years. Maybe in 30 or 40 years, if computational systems evolve so much as to do the work of a brain. But that is plenty of time to have a whole generation of manned combat aircrafts. 6th gen for the USA, and 5th gen for everyone else.

Again, I am not talking about artificial intelligence.

It is way too early to be writing obituaries for manned aviation

I will buy that, and the fact is we wont be writing it in coming 100 years, its always a man behind a machine not in the machine.

20 years from now, if you just need to fill in a 5th gen plane, go for f-35 and wait for the AURA to mature and to be honest you have an engine READY for AURA. Focus on other dynamics and you have a world beating plane.

You dont have a 4th Gen Engine, and AMCA will need a 5th Gen one. Practically speaking its a very bad move. a move that will teach us nothing. Unless a job less scientist wants to tickle his grey cells.

 

[faithfulguy]

^^AMCA will supplement FGFA

THe expertise we have gained on LCA and will gain on FGFA will be sued in AMCA

But first get the LCA ready, then produce FGFA in India, and then using that expertise, start designing AMCA. This will give India a realistic time frame to produce AMCA.

AMCA - A lost cause

Its no if the DRDO do things properly by first finish LCA and then learn from the production of FGFA.

 

[Parul]

But first get the LCA ready, then produce FGFA in India, and then using that expertise, start designing AMCA. This will give India a realistic time frame to produce AMCA.



Its no if the DRDO do things properly by first finish LCA and then learn from the production of FGFA.

I agree with PDF Expert on Indian Issues

 

[Kaniska]

Its not an alternative to the FGFA.... yet alone to the fact that we signed a contract for the co development of an Indian version of the FGFA.... and the AMCA is an imaginary paper plane while the T 50 already got hundreds of flying hours.

Dude...seriously...do you believe these reports? DRDO and other R&D Lab can not built an average fighter plane like LCA and you are talking about AMCA...These departments are like politician...When ever they need budget to be sanctioned to their department, they just show imaginary paper and some plan of vision as if they are committed to complete by the mentioned time. It is the same way how politician will put many things of manifesto but deliver nothing...