Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[he-man]

Its the strategic airlift and tac airlift I am worried about. That mountain strike corps will only be useful if for the short term it has the adequate airlift capacity- till the infra comes up in NE.

Otherwise if things get serious they may meet a nasty opponent in the 15th airborne- 10 Globe-masters aren't going to cut it and the heli-lift capacity needs to be looked at.

In a month or two I am going to sit and compile the whole air-lift info.

 

[Dillinger]

I had done something similar for the ORBAT on both sides of the line earlier- but that's incomplete without the above.

Damn it but you've got to respect the Americans on this, one pities the fool who has to face off with the 82nd or 101st along with the 10th. Thankfully the composite aviation base will plug the gap for a short while in our context.

 

[he-man]

I had done something similar for the ORBAT on both sides of the line earlier- but that's incomplete without the above.

Damn it but you've got to respect the Americans on this, one pities the fool who has to face off with the 82nd or 101st along with the 10th. Thankfully the composite aviation base will plug the gap for a short while in our context.

man they have a budget of 700 billion$
its 20 times our current budget.............

 

[Dillinger]

man they have a budget of 700 billion$
its 20 times our current budget.............

It has less to do with budgets, more to do with foresight.

The CCS should have listened to the likes of VPM.

 

[he-man]

It has less to do with budgets, more to do with foresight.

The CCS should have listened to the likes of VPM.

i disagree.............its very much to do with budget,,,,,,although we can do much better with good planning even under this budget.

but money matters

 

[Dillinger]

i disagree.............its very much to do with budget,,,,,,although we can do much better with good planning even under this budget.

but money matters

Your disagreement is of little use here. You need to stick to the context. We all have opinions but if we must express them on such matters then at least first lets gather what the professionals are saying. The idea of air-mobility for the SC and strat. air-lift capability enhancement is not mine nor any analyst's.

The matter here has nothing to do with budgets at all, the BRO for example has no dearth of funds- the FSAs for their projects are provided for but clearances come in the way. Organisational deficiencies come in the way- theater command structure, again something stressed upon by VPM.

Similarly the 15th airborne has been around since China's defense budget was no more than India's. It had to with foresight and planning- nothing else.

 

[kaykay]

@Dillinger @Abingdonboy do you guys have any info about ALGs in Arunachal Pradesh which can handle C-17s or IL-76s??

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger @Abingdonboy do you guys have any info about ALGs in Arunachal Pradesh which can handle C-17s or IL-76s??

There is no ALG which can accommodate a C-17 or IL-76, its not possible nor is it required. ALGs are stop gap measures in the face of inadequate infra and slow infra build up.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Its the strategic airlift and tac airlift I am worried about. That mountain strike corps will only be useful if for the short term it has the adequate airlift capacity- till the infra comes up in NE.

Otherwise if things get serious they may meet a nasty opponent in the 15th airborne- 10 Globe-masters aren't going to cut it and the heli-lift capacity needs to be looked at.

In a month or two I am going to sit and compile the whole air-lift info.

Well I look foreward to it!


But I think the airlift situation should look pretty acceptable come 2020-22. Another 6 C-17s are,IMHO, a. It assured. So the question is how many will the IAF to for eventually? I've heard estimates up to 22-25 C-17 units in all for the IAF but we will have to wait and see. Then there's the C-130J-30s, crucially the follow-on order for 6 will be based at Panagargh AFS in West Bengal (where the IA's new Mountain Strike Corp's HQ will also be). Incidentally the IAF has also said their 6 A330 MRTTs will also be based in the East. The Avro relacment and MTA will also be coming in by ~2019/20 and I'm sure the IAF will deploy them accordingly.

Coming to the rotary-wing fleet. The IAF has on order 159 Mi-17V5s as well as both the IA and IAF likely to have a combined fleet of 200-300 ALH by the start of the next decade. HAL's LUH will be up and running by 2015/16 so there will be ~400 of these on order by 2020. We then come to heavy lift. The CH-47F wi be ordered this fiscal so deliveries starting in ~2016/17 AFAIK there is a clause for a further 15 units and one wouldn't rule out orders in excess of 30-45 by 2020.


The situation isn't so bleak

 

[Dillinger]

Well I look foreward to it!


But I think the airlift situation should look pretty acceptable come 2020-22. Another 6 C-17s are,IMHO, a. It assured. So the question is how many will the IAF to for eventually? I've heard estimates up to 22-25 C-17 units in all for the IAF but we will have to wait and see. Then there's the C-130J-30s, crucially the follow-on order for 6 will be based at Panagargh AFS in West Bengal (where the IA's new Mountain Strike Corp's HQ will also be). Incidentally the IAF has also said their 6 A330 MRTTs will also be based in the East. The Avro relacment and MTA will also be coming in by ~2019/20 and I'm sure the IAF will deploy them accordingly.

Coming to the rotary-wing fleet. The IAF has on order 159 Mi-17V5s as well as both the IA and IAF likely to have a combined fleet of 200-300 ALH by the start of the next decade. HAL's LUH will be up and running by 2015/16 so there will be ~400 of these on order by 2020. We then come to heavy lift. The CH-47F wi be ordered this fiscal so deliveries starting in ~2016/17 AFAIK there is a clause for a further 15 units and one wouldn't rule out orders in excess of 30-45 by 2020.


The situation isn't so bleak

Its not the projections but implementation I am worried about. 20 strat lifters are a must, otherwise you're stuck, a dozen along with scores of hepters and smaller TA can allow you to airlift maybe 10,000 boots in a staggered manner. At the moments we are facing a gap, Curse J.Ramesh and the rest of the lot- 900Km of highways in the NE out of 3500Km planned in 5 years!

 

[kaykay]

There is no ALG which can accommodate a C-17 or IL-76, its not possible nor is it required. ALGs are stop gap measures in the face of inadequate infra and slow infra build up.

Thanks. That means nearest station which can handle heavy transport aircrafts is Tezpur. While only aircrafts like An-32s and C-130Js can land and takeoff from ALGs say from Tawang.

 

[Dillinger]

Thanks. That means nearest station which can handle heavy transport aircrafts is Tezpur. While only aircrafts like An-32s and C-130Js can land and takeoff from ALGs say from Tawang.

Bullseye!

Someone had better put the foot to the damn peddle on SARDP-NE!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Its not the projections but implementation I am worried about. 20 strat lifters are a must, otherwise you're stuck, a dozen along with scores of hepters and smaller TA can allow you to airlift maybe 10,000 boots in a staggered manner. At the moments we are facing a gap, Curse J.Ramesh and the rest of the lot- 900Km of highways in the NE out of 3500Km planned in 5 years!

Actually on this front (air lift) the implementation isn't terrible if you look at it. Probably because the C-130J and C-17 deals are bought through the FMS route. As I say both the CH-47F deals and follow-on 6 C-130J deals will be signed this fiscal. With the C-17 production line facing imminent closure the IAF has to accelerate their C-17 purchases if they want them (which they do) so this factor alone will see more C-17s arrive soon enough.

The only sticking points will be the MTA and possibly the Avro replacement. The MTA is (according to latest reports from the Russian side) progressing well now and they say (not that I believe them) that the first units will be ready for delivery by 2018-20. The Avro replacement program has only just got underway so we'll have to wait and see how things progress on this front.

 

[Dillinger]

Actually on this front (air lift) the implementation isn't terrible if you look at it. Probably because the C-130J and C-17 deals are bought through the FMS route. As I say both the CH-47F deals and follow-on 6 C-130J deals will be signed this fiscal. With the C-17 production line facing imminent closure the IAF has to accelerate their C-17 purchases if they want them (which they do) so this factor alone will see more C-17s arrive soon enough.

The only sticking points will be the MTA and possibly the Avro replacement. The MTA is (according to latest reports from the Russian side) progressing well now and they say (not that I believe them) that the first units will be ready for delivery by 2018-20. The Avro replacement program has only just got underway so we'll have to wait and see how things progress on this front.

I need to find out the planned projection for production of the PS-90 engine for the MTA. If it is to be dependent on material flow from Russia then there could be low op. availability. Lets see.

The lack of an indigenous heavy-lift hepter is going to bite us though, how many Mi-17V5s are up atm? How many are projected- sorry for being lazy- I know you mentioned the number earlier.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I need to find out the planned projection for production of the PS-90 engine for the MTA. If it is to be dependent on material flow from Russia then there could be low op. availability. Lets see.

The lack of an indigenous heavy-lift hepter is going to bite us though, how many Mi-17V5s are up atm? How many are projected- sorry for being lazy- I know you mentioned the number earlier.

The number of V5s on order is 171 IIRC. 159 for the IAF and the remaining 12 for the GoI/MHA/CAPFs (a while back I heard the ICG was even going to get 2-3 of this order!).

The indigenious heavy-lift helo or lack of one is an issue but then the CH-47F is an advanced yet proven platform and isn't a bad option. As it is the IAF/IA could run into some serious difficulty if the HAL LOH/LUH runs into any sort of delay as the Cheetaks and Cheetahs needed replacing years ago. Hopefully HAL starts pumping out the ALHs at an accelerated rate and the IAF/IA go for close to 500.