"India will break-up like Russia"-Raut

[Cliftonite]

Pakistani Muhajir. Lol

Muhajir = Migrant from India.

Pakistani Migrant from India.

What an oxymoron sounding identity.

But what about your Chitpavan Brahmin women falling for Muslim men? Sagarika Ghatge is gorgeous. Must hurt that a "sulla" took her no?

Isn't Aishwarya Rai also Konkani or Tulu Brahmin? Hehehe she also had a thing with Salman Khan.

Seethe and seethe more you ITcell troll.

 

[usman012]

Waiting for it. Hopefully, we will see India break up into at least, 10 smaller states. In that way, Hindus and Muslims both will benefit. The South already wants to break up with the rest of India. Northeast has already an active insurgency. With China's help, this is possible.

 

[Baibars_1260]

its a pleasure to read your in depth analyses. Thanks for your analyses.

Welcome.
Before I answer your questions (below) here is something we should know.
There are other far more informed and educated PDF members than me and perhaps they don't write as much.
But the best sources of information are online and we can share these sites like I just did on this forum.
No matter how much I post here, it is but a fraction of the knowledge that the still functioning secular Indian online media themselves provide. Secular Indians are prolific writers and it is easy to access their writings.
The online secular Indian media information is far more than the media of most countries in South Asia including Bangladesh.,

One just needs to look..

Now, its hard to take out the Pakistan factor which gives them a sense of unity. If this factor is removed, Maharashtra can be serious rival to their center.

Marathis are insular.
The Pakistan factor, unless related to local issues tends to fade away.,
The 1993 blasts and the 26/11 attacks created an anti-Muslim/ anti-Pakistani backlash for a while.
The 1993 bombing of the Mumbai stock exchange created a very long lasting backlash.
Ironically, the involvement of Marathi politics with the Ram Mandir movement also exposed Bombay ( Mumbai) to the risk of further violence and becoming as bad an area to do business as say Bulundhshahar UP. This is the last thing Marathis want as their's is a rich state with a robust economy, controlling nearly 35% of all of India's wealth.
The majority of the common people of Maharashtra are somewhat secular ( accepting local Sufi shrines etc.), but also insular. They basically want their own space and their prime deity is deity is Lord Ganesha not Lord Ram. Rhetoric and political posturing aside the Marathi Manus is more concerned with the modest Ganesha temple next door than the grand temple being built over the ruins of the Babri Masjid. Even their heroes like the Peshwas did not demolish mosques.
While local political rhetoric against Pakistan makes sense during the elections, the Marathis are also realists and realize that Bombay (Mumbai) is in the crosshairs of a Pakistani missile and naval attack. They see no reason to expose themselves to an attack based on events going on far away in Kashmir.
Which is why the Shiv Sena vociferously questioned the wisdom and "truth" behind India's air strikes on Balakot in 2019. Their ally the BJP was deeply embarrassed by their "anti-national " stance.

The object of Marathi nationalism today is not to resurrect the Maratha Empire and take Peshawar but to preserve and develop Maharashtra and Mumbai as financial and business hub rivaling Dubai. So Dubai is the rival not Karachi.
There have been fewer communal riots in Maharashtra since the Shiv Sena assumed power. Even cow lynchings have stopped. The Shiv Sena has also rebuffed "vegetarian enforcement " largely promoted by the pro-BJP, Jain business community. The Shiv Sena would like to have their Karahi Chicken eating houses near the Gateway of India open, and it matters little what Yogi Adityanath does in Vrindavan.

Your points about what Pakistan should do are right, but the question is will it help when Bjp decides to galvanize the nation with another stunt like in feb 2019?

No, it won't help.
The Central BJP government has many reasons to hit Pakistan again.
The most important of all is a "show-and-tell" action to demonstrate India's regional dominance like a pocket version of Israel. Anti-Pakistani and anti-Muslim sentiments plays big in the "cow belt" especially around elections. Unfortunately, India is completely supported by several countries totally inimical to the existence of Pakistan.
So while striking Pakistan is a grand propaganda exercise for India for Pakistan it is obviously an. existential issue. Pakistan will not choose to become another punch bag country like Syria or Iraq. The Marathas who know the history of war with the people of the territory that now comprises Pakistan are far more realistic than the illiterate cow belt people of the BIMARU states.

Do you think anti pakistan sentiment is still strong enough to overshadow maharashtra center differences?

Unless there is another attack like 26/11 it is unlikely that the anti-Pakistani factor will revive to its former central role in Maharashtra.

 

[Cliftonite]

The majority of the common people of Maharashtra are somewhat secular ( accepting local Sufi shrines etc.), but also insular.

The Marathi is midway between the North Indian and the South Indian.

The Marathi is shown as either as the 'tujhya aichi' Maratha chauvinist or the introverted apne kaam se kaam rakhne wala. He's not the mustache twirling Thakur of UP, Rajasthan and Bihar. Can never be so.

But he's still not as secular and non communal as the Dravidians.

With Bala Thackeray's death, I think Uddhav has realized that the flame blazing days of Shiv Sena are over. Plus inner Maharashtra (Aurangabad area) has a substanstial Muslim and Dalit population as well. The in your face Hindutva will not work now.

 

[Nasr]

That RSS IT troll is trying to divert the topic. Make the RSS trolls stick to the topic.

Important aspects:
The top leadership of the RSS has always been in the hands of Chitpawan or Saraswat Brahmins who are themselves Marathas.
Questions:
So how does Brahmin Maratha identity play out?
Why must the RSS always be led by Marathi speaking Brahmins when the spiritual seat of Hinduism lies further North in UP, Bihar and Nepal.
Why for example are Hindi Sanskrit speaking RSS stalwarts such as Yogi Adiyanath, Rajendra Singh, and Sakshi Maharaj who represent the vast majority of Hindus in the heartland not find a place in the RSS?
Why must Mohan Bhagwat address the nation on the Dussehra during the Durga Puja in October in imperfect Marathi accented Hindi rather than Sanskrit which Yogi Adityanath could have done much better?
Why doesn't the Shiv Sena take the religious lead, and address the Marathis on Durga Puja in Marathi just as it does on Gudi Padwa?

Will leave the answers to Hindustani and Indian PDFerrs.

In my humble opinion, when you ignore these rat-indians, they burn inside out. Leave them be, they have but their sardine-can to dwell in, along with their cow-dung, defecating streets, their cheap bollywood songs copied of Western music and of course not to forget, their much loved favorite drink, cow-pi$$!!!

 

[Baibars_1260]

The Marathi is midway between the North Indian and the South Indian.

The Marathi is shown as either as the 'tujhya aichi' Maratha chauvinist or the introverted apne kaam se kaam rakhne wala. He's not the mustache twirling Thakur of UP, Rajasthan and Bihar. Can never be so.

But he's still not as secular and non communal as the Dravidians.

With Bala Thackeray's death, I think Uddhav has realized that the flame blazing days of Shiv Sena are over. Plus inner Maharashtra (Aurangabad area) has a substanstial Muslim and Dalit population as well. The in your face Hindutva will not work now.

Correct.
Hindus are not monolithic.
Hindus are not even trans-national in their devotion and with all their sacred places within the territory of India ( am disregarding Pashupatinath and Mount Kailash for obvious reasons) .
There are such a wide variety of deities that it took British and European experts 90-100 years to understand and document them all.
Pakistanis need to understand the beautiful diversity of Hindus across India rather than the chest thumping "Hindus above all" stance by keyboard warriors on PDF .
Example:
The Sabarimala temple's female puberty restrictions are not reflected in the status of female pilgrims visiting Baidyanath Temple in Deoghar, and the chant is Bol Bum, instead of Swami Sharanam Ayyappa.
Here is a delightful piece of news that most of us Pakistanis are unaware of.
When PAF shot down the IAF Mig 21 in February last year, all. Hindi and English language channels were toeing the line of the official press conference stating that the Mig 21 was "missing" and that an "F-16 had been shot down". India was not officially confirming the shooting down of the plane nor the fact that the pilot was captive.
The South Indian channels (particularly the Telugu language channels) were more realistic and showed the footage from Pakistan TV channels of the captured pilot and wreckage of the downed plane.
Generally South Indians have very little enthusiasm to get involved in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan.
Even die hard South Indians Hindutvadis like Subramanyam Swamy do not advocate pre-emptive strikes on Pakistan.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Correct.
Hindus are not monolithic.
Hindus are not even trans-national in their devotion and with all their sacred places within the territory of India ( am disregarding Pashupatinath and Mount Kailash for obvious reasons) .
There are such a wide variety of deities that it took British and European experts 90-100 years to understand and document them all.
Pakistanis need to understand the beautiful diversity of Hindus across India rather than the chest thumping "Hindus above all" stance by keyboard warriors on PDF .
Example:
The Sabarimala temple's female puberty restrictions are not reflected in the status of female pilgrims visiting Baidyanath Temple in Deoghar, and the chant is Bol Bum, instead of Swami Sharanam Ayyappa.
Here is a delightful piece of news that most of us Pakistanis are unaware of.
When PAF shot down the IAF Mig 21 in February last year, all. Hindi and English language channels were toeing the line of the official press conference stating that the Mig 21 was "missing" and that an "F-16 had been shot down". India was not officially confirming the shooting down of the plane nor the fact that the pilot was captive.
The South Indian channels (particularly the Telugu language channels) were more realistic and showed the footage from Pakistan TV channels of the captured pilot and wreckage of the downed plane.
Generally South Indians have very little enthusiasm to get involved in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan.
Even die hard South Indians Hindutvadis like Subramanyam Swamy do not advocate pre-emptive strikes on Pakistan.

and you were monitoring the coverage on regional channels in India ?

you're either an Indian or working for the Pak government in an official capacity...

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

....
...question is will it help when Bjp decides to galvanize the nation with another stunt like in feb 2019?...

The most crucial question indeed ... India always had two ways to maintain harmony, secular or majoritarian... congress using former and appeasing later while BJP took the majoritarian route. But it always lacked a national cohesive force in culture, history, linguistic or religious though India did adopt a superficial centrifugal force only surface deep to create a facade of unison. The centripetal force though keeping things in the orbit were Pakistan and China.

All of this becomes impossible to maintain once people start seeing their distinction especially from the center, the resonance stops. Meaning, once someone in Maharashtra stops seeing Kashmir a core issue for him/her and an imperial project unrelated and unconcerned to his/her goodwill or future prospects, the charade ends. Likewise, Pakistan will have to reach out each one of these states within a state to form a direct relationship with it, irrespective of their Indian identity for now. In other words Maharashtra should know that it has no horse in the race. To desist, will then become an option and independent one at that... same with southern states...

Pakistan it self becomes a casus belli when it lumps all that is in India as one... something, India can use as it's centripetal force. A correct course of action was taken when Pakistan opened a corridor for Sikhs(irrespective of their former role in Muslim genocide). Which gave them recognition, purpose and diverging cause. Something they could achive without the will of center, in essence making a center or core for themselves and achieving something.

This is exactly what India and former Soviets sought to create in Pakistan a common cause with vicarious groups, only that without mass they couldn't achieve following, except B-desh of course!

 

[Cliftonite]

Correct.
Hindus are not monolithic.
Hindus are not even trans-national in their devotion and with all their sacred places within the territory of India ( am disregarding Pashupatinath and Mount Kailash for obvious reasons) .
There are such a wide variety of deities that it took British and European experts 90-100 years to understand and document them all.
Pakistanis need to understand the beautiful diversity of Hindus across India rather than the chest thumping "Hindus above all" stance by keyboard warriors on PDF .
Example:
The Sabarimala temple's female puberty restrictions are not reflected in the status of female pilgrims visiting Baidyanath Temple in Deoghar, and the chant is Bol Bum, instead of Swami Sharanam Ayyappa.
Here is a delightful piece of news that most of us Pakistanis are unaware of.
When PAF shot down the IAF Mig 21 in February last year, all. Hindi and English language channels were toeing the line of the official press conference stating that the Mig 21 was "missing" and that an "F-16 had been shot down". India was not officially confirming the shooting down of the plane nor the fact that the pilot was captive.
The South Indian channels (particularly the Telugu language channels) were more realistic and showed the footage from Pakistan TV channels of the captured pilot and wreckage of the downed plane.
Generally South Indians have very little enthusiasm to get involved in a nuclear exchange with Pakistan.
Even die hard South Indians Hindutvadis like Subramanyam Swamy do not advocate pre-emptive strikes on Pakistan.

That's why I feel Pakistan should let Modi jee do his work.

Let this RSS backed Brahminism infest India. Hinduism is so divisive on its own. The Rajput of UP and Rajasthan will never consider the shudroid Tamil Hindu or the Mongoloid Assamese Hindu his equal. In fact the 'trads' (the kattar Manuvadi) openly show their contempt for Mulnivasi and non dwija Hindus. Sindhi Hindus who migrated in 1947 weren't accepted by some Hindus because they ate meat and had Sufi influences in their bhakti. Some have problems with fish eating Bongs as well.

 

[FAROOQ RASHID BUTT]

India will not be as fragmented as happened with Russia. In fact, India will be confined to the borders of Burma۔This is the end of the Indian invasion.

 

[Cliftonite]

and you were monitoring the coverage on regional channels in India ?

you're either an Indian or working for the Pak government in an official capacity...

If he's an Indian, I hope he's out of India, which he most probably is. His posts are a true delight to read.

Must make you uncomfortable to see someone unearthing the true nature of your people no?

 

[Sharma Ji]

That's why I feel Pakistan should let Modi jee do his work.

Let this RSS backed Brahminism infest India. Hinduism is so divisive on its own. The Rajput of UP and Rajasthan will never consider the shudroid Tamil Hindu or the Mongoloid Assamese Hindu his equal. In fact the 'trads' (the kattar Manuvadi) openly show their contempt for Mulnivasi and non dwija Hindus. Sindhi Hindus who migrated in 1947 weren't accepted by some Hindus because they ate meat and had Sufi influences in their bhakti. Some have problems with fish eating Bongs as well.

"shudroid" "fish eating bongs" and "non dwija Hindus"

BC kya hoga tumhara ?

If he's an Indian, I hope he's out of India, which he most probably is. His posts are a true delight to read.

Must make you uncomfortable to see someone unearthing the true nature of your people no?

they are indeed

and no, not at all

samjho ge kisi din, jab Bharat Mata aayengi khud samjhaney

India will not be as fragmented as happened with Russia. In fact, India will be confined to the borders of Burma۔This is the end of the Indian invasion.

what Indian invasion, what are you even on about ?

 

[Baibars_1260]

The most crucial question indeed ...

All of this becomes impossible to maintain once people start seeing their distinction especially from the center, the resonance stops. Meaning, once someone in Maharashtra stops seeing Kashmir a core issue for him/her and an imperial project unrelated and unconcerned to his/her goodwill or future prospects, the sharade ends. Likewise, Pakistan will have to reach out each one of these states within a state to form a direct relationship with it, irrespective of their Indian identity for now. In other words Maharashtra should know that it has no horse in the race. To desist, will then become an option and independent one at that... same with southern states...
Pakistan it self becomes a casus belli when it lumps all that is in India as one... something, India can use as it's centripetal force.

Interesting viewpoint!
Here is another thing often overlooked by Pakistanis.

The Maratha pride is linked to their hero Shivaji. The Marathas project Shivaji as a hero of Maratha resistance against the Mughals.
This equation Maratha vs Mughals doesn't translate automatically into a Hindu Muslim sworn enemy scenario although communal historians on both sides love to present it as such. There were Hindu Rajput generals and troops fighting for the Mughals and Muslims fighting for the Marathas.

Maratha pride also requires acceptance, and after the initial hype Marathas are quick to point out the presence of Turkish origin Muslim snipers, heavy artillery gunners ( Gardis) in their armies or the presence of Siddis ( Sudani) naval crew. They make much of the alliance the Marathas had with the ( Zaidi Shiite???) Muslim kingdoms of Vijaynagar, Golconda and Bijapur.

Maratha Manus stalwarts such as Lata Mangeshkar and Asha Bhonsle have no problem singing naats and hamds .
بے کس پہ کرم کیجیے۔ سرکار مدینہ

The Shirdi Sai Baba was a Muslim Sufi saint from Sindh but a section of Marathis have no problem worshipping him as a God.

A correct course of action was taken when Pakistan opened a corridor for Sikhs(irrespective of their former role in Muslim genocide). Which gave them recognition, purpose and diverging cause. Something they could achive without the will of center, in essence making a center or core for themselves and achieving something.

This is exactly what India and former Soviets sought to create in Pakistan a common cause with vicarious groups, only that without mass they couldn't achieve following, except B-desh of course!

Absolutely agree. Pakistan's reversal of its earlier stance on Sikhs has brought a wind fall of opportunities.
A similar flexibility is needed towards Marathis and putting the Third Battle of Panipat firmly in the background.,
Example : There are Marathi speaking Muslims who write Marathi literature, and in fact one of them was even awarded the Indian Literary award ( Sahitya Academy).
Post Partition a large number of Marathi and Gujarati Muslims ( Qaid e Azam was one himself) settled in Karachi. Investigating their current cultural status would be an interesting exercise. Starting from there we could outreach to Marathi Theatre and Dance groups for a performance festival in one of our big cities. The Lavani dance form ( Tamasha) makes very (naughty) compelling watching.
Culture is a great way to backdoor an outreach.

 

[Cliftonite]

Absolutely agree. Pakistan's reversal of its earlier stance on Sikhs has brought a wind fall of opportunities.
A similar flexibility is needed towards Marathis and putting the Third Battle of Panipat firmly in the background.,
Example : There are Marathi speaking Muslims who write Marathi literature, and in fact one of them was even awarded the Indian Literary award ( Sahitya Academy).
Post Partition a large number of Marathi and Gujarati Muslims ( Qaid e Azam was one himself) settled in Karachi. Investigating their current cultural status would be an interesting exercise. Starting from there we could outreach to Marathi Theatre and Dance groups for a performance festival in one of our big cities. The Lavani dance form ( Tamasha) makes very (naughty) compelling watching.

I'm surprised you missed the most obvious Marathi Konkani manus- Dawood Ibrahim lololol

Shiv Sena was supposedly tight with him and D Company.

Lol I'm joking. Not him god no.

 

[Sharma Ji]

The Shirdi Sai Baba was a Muslim Sufi saint from Sindh but a section of Marathis have no problem worshipping him as a God.

not clear, but it is not just a "section of Marathis"

much revered as a saint, not a god (which is sometimes/many times not clear around these parts)

Afro guy was such a scamster though