India provides money, targets to terrorists in Pak: Terrorist claims on video

[Nemesis]

I'm curious, will this video be shown to the GOI at a suitable time? and pray tell, when will this suitable time be?

Lt. Gen (retd.) Hamid Gul is a nationalist, and he represents no threat.

"I think I hurt them [the U.S.] because I talk about their atrocities and because I morally support the Afghan jihad," Mr. Gul said. "The Americans are the aggressors so I support our brothers in the Taliban."

You mean this Hamid Gul?

If Hamid Gul is your definition of a nationalist, then i feel sorry for you.

 

[afriend]

The issue here is, pakistan have little credibility due to its past actions, and internal turmoils. There have been lot of instances where in pakistan have accused india, which have gone down the drain. The fact is, india is a stable and responsible democracy, and have a legacy of non allignment and the history of standing up for its strong principles even against friends, clearly given the world the image that india minds its own business.

However pakistan on the other hand have been run over by military many a times and have a history of aiding terrorists at convinience . So the image itself is not that good. Unless and until that image comes for a drastic change whatever proof Pakistan gives the world, will not be considered seriously.

So i think this is just a spoof and stage managed by isi, to garner more support from the pakistani public and erode the support of militant sympathasiers to gain a sustainable advantage over taliban.

 

[waraich66]

The issue here is, pakistan have little credibility due to its past actions, and internal turmoils. There have been lot of instances where in pakistan have accused india, which have gone down the drain. The fact is, india is a stable and responsible democracy, and have a legacy of non allignment and the history of standing up for its strong principles even against friends, clearly given the world the image that india minds its own business.

However pakistan on the other hand have been run over by military many a times and have a history of aiding terrorists at convinience . So the image itself is not that good. Unless and until that image comes for a drastic change whatever proof Pakistan gives the world, will not be considered seriously.

So i think this is just a spoof and stage managed by isi, to garner more support from the pakistani public and erode the support of militant sympathasiers to gain a sustainable advantage over taliban.

Again bania style blame game,



Pakistan have better human right record and credibility then India .Indian caste system , masacare of 10 million un born baby girls, killing of 80000 Kashmiri independence movement supporters, discrimination record for minorities are all plus points of world biggest democracy.

Now every body know that TTP have indian and israeli weapons and full support of RAW and Mosad.

If this your democracy we dont want this democracy in our country.

 

[Barrett]

Penury stricken Delhi didn’t spend about a Billion Dollars in Afghanistan so that the investment would eliminate the slums of Mumbai or feed the Dalits. India spent the money in Afghanistan so that it could build a base of operations against Pakistan. It has gone to the extent of blowing up its own civilians with the help of M.I so that it could turn the barrels of the foreign media towards Pakistan, but fortunately or unfortunately the machination turned out to be a fiasco.

Not to my surprise the media has always been more interested in blaming everything on ISI but when a serving Indian Col is arrested for the same they tend to look the other way. I hope there are still some ways by which they could yet redeem themselves.


The most recent was the 72 hour Media blockbuster who on their own traced the terrorists with their names, but still unable to uncover the mystery behind the killing of a pivotal officer (Karkare) investigating India’s own right wing upper caste extremists, since the Mumbai attack was possible because of poor intelligence is a fact acknowledged by Indian intelligence agencies, so there is no point accusing someone who has confessed to a failure. But was it a case of negligence and incompetence or a deliberate sinister plot.

Before you point your fingers at Gen.Hamid, what about Col.Purohit? Does that ring a bell?

If your intelligence agencies are involved in the killings of its own people, what makes you think they are not involved in Pakistan

Before you ask us if we want a Taliban Gov, do you want an RSS regime?

 

[arihant]

Penury stricken Delhi didn’t spend about a Billion Dollars in Afghanistan so that the investment would eliminate the slums of Mumbai or feed the Dalits. India spent the money in Afghanistan so that it could build a base of operations against Pakistan. It has gone to the extent of blowing up its own civilians with the help of M.I so that it could turn the barrels of the foreign media towards Pakistan, but fortunately or unfortunately the machination turned out to be a fiasco.

Not to my surprise the media has always been more interested in blaming everything on ISI but when a serving Indian Col is arrested for the same they tend to look the other way. I hope there are still some ways by which they could yet redeem themselves.


The most recent was the 72 hour Media blockbuster who on their own traced the terrorists with their names, but still unable to uncover the mystery behind the killing of a pivotal officer (Karkare) investigating India’s own right wing upper caste extremists, since the Mumbai attack was possible because of poor intelligence is a fact acknowledged by Indian intelligence agencies, so there is no point accusing someone who has confessed to a failure. But was it a case of negligence and incompetence or a deliberate sinister plot.

Before you point your fingers at Gen.Hamid, what about Col.Purohit? Does that ring a bell?

If your intelligence agencies are involved in the killings of its own people, what makes you think they are not involved in Pakistan

Before you ask us if we want a Taliban Gov, do you want an RSS regime?

You should better ask Indian govt. to stop keeping their money in swiss bank and invest in infrastructure.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"Perhaps the US and India should show how its done...After all, you have nothing but faith in your government to substantiate the conviction that the Quetta Shura exists."

A.M., I'd disagree.

At this point, we've the words of others here and elsewhere. You've embraced David Rohde's observations of the conditions existing in Miram Shah. I don't doubt his word of being chauffeured about by none other than Jahaluddin Haqqani's son. Evidently neither do you.

You've accepted Petraeus' one clear example. Do you think I need more? Nobody here has refuted that Nazir and Bahadur have sent Pakistanis to fight in Afghanistan nor that Omar (from wherever he is) attempted to sway Mehsud to do the same. These men reside on your lands.

Sanctuary is, therefore, established more than adequately in the minds of our public and leaders as well as yours whether you need to assign the name "Quetta shura" to it or not. For all I know those men may be residing in Karachi by now.

We have proof adequate to our view. We've simply refused to act upon it as we might.

That some of the attacks against NATO forces occur out of FATA does not equate to Pakistani institutions supporting the Taliban, nor is it in any way validation of the existence of a Quetta Shura or Karachi Shura.

Your line of argument would suggest that the US withdrawal from Nuristan and the closure of some of the Eastern Afghan outposts is evidence of some sort of collaboration with the Taliban. In fact, even when the US had posts there QZR was able to cross the border into Bajaur with several hundred men multiple times to attack Pakistani forces.

Does that mean the US is complicit with terrorists that attack Pakistan but do not attack NATO?

You could argue that both your initial limited presence and the current withdrawal from those regions is the result of a multitude of constraints faced by the US - I would, and have consistently, argued the same in terms of explaining why the GoP has been reluctant to go all out against the militants in FATA - a multitude of constraints facing Pakistan.

Therefore I do not see a refutation of my argument that to accuse Pakistan of 'blaming without evidence' is hypocritical given the West and India's own 'blame game' without evidence against Pakistan.

Pakistan cannot leave a void here to be filled with poisonous propaganda demonizing the Pakistani Military from the West and India - a counter narrative is essential, and for that the West and India have themselves to blame for casting the first stone.

At the moment (it could be debunked) I think this video of Usman Mujahid talking about Indian support for terrorism in Pakistan is damning.

Perhaps now we know what all that 'money being pumped into Baluchistan' that Indian officials told Christine Fair about is being used for.

 

[S-2]

"That some of the attacks against NATO forces occur out of FATA does not equate to Pakistani institutions supporting the Taliban, nor is it in any way validation of the existence of a Quetta Shura or Karachi Shura..."

Nothing will validate such in your minds nor mine for that matter. The fact is that neither of us possess the intel that is read by our leaders.

Nonetheless, I think that those in Canada, Britain, and America with a need to know already DO KNOW enough to ascertain the existence and operation of these forces. For myself, it's easy to extrapolate Omar's existence in the Quetta region by virtue of the assuredness I possess about Haqqani's existence in Miran Shah...and I am assured.

You might argue the same but the truth from America's view is that if we're writing the cheques then your contentions are simply that. Contentions to construct a counter-narrative to relieve pressure internally. Nothing more.

Actually none of it now matters and we've evidently come to accept the existence of these forces on your soil. So much so that in areas such as Konar and Nuristan we will no longer consider them key nor outpost them as we've done for seven years. I'm unsure if I agree but McChrystal has determined that it's pointless and is willing to grant the taliban sanctuary in these areas.

That will likely affect you more than us. At least your proxies have achieved a modicum of the strategic space so commonly discussed. Further, it should remove any question of Indian intrigue from these areas unless the afghan taliban will assist the Pakistani taliban in establishing rear bases there and, further, facilitate the transit of Indian agents to assist the resupply of the Pakistani taliban in these newly-acquired rear logistics bases.

We simply don't see the benefit any longer of fighting an endless battle over lumber smuggling. You might see otherwise but to effect changes to such, you'll now need to convince the afghan government that it's critical they establish their writ via the ANA and ANP over these tractless, lawless, inaccessible, and inhospitable lands.

Good luck.

Further, I'd expect our good anti-narcotics work in these areas to be shortly reversed. Perhaps Nangahar and Khost too, depending upon how extensive our pullback becomes. I've postulated that I can't imagine that we'll abandon Asadabad, Jalalabad, and Khost cities to the taliban but I don't know for certain WHAT McChrystal has planned there. If we don't, they may simply be outposts of civilization until such time that the afghan government is prepared to begin extending its control deeper into the hinterlands.

You could replicate our decision and also continue ceding these lands adjacent to Nangahar, Konar, and Nuristan in your north. As you've mentioned, operations continue in Bajaur. To what objective, I'm unsure. It's terribly small and should likely have been brought under control by now, IMHO. That it hasn't, though, likely means it won't either. Not until the Afghan government sends forces into the adjacent provinces and begins taking back its lands.

In short, you'll now appreciate in full the value of sanctuary to an insurgency like never before.

Someday in the undetermined and distant future maybe that'll change. I think not. Were I A.Q., I'd be making my plans to move into new homes. Of course, I've personally believed for long that OBL is in Chitral but that move isn't terribly far for him. At present he isn't, if there, personally threatened. Others may be. They'll now have more options IMV.

We're sending more troops but they won't be operating under your command. Instead, it appears that our interests are centered on the population centers that offer the biggest bang per platoon and also the south where the Quetta shura doesn't exist.

As things deteriorate and more of NATO begins packing for home, I do anticipate Indian activity morphing into more than it's been. I haven't bought one penny of what you've been selling but that doesn't mean I won't in the future. As conditions change by our re-positioning and increasing drawdown of allied forces, they'll have both the need and the freedom to do what I've heretofore considered very unlikely.

I'm certain you've read vs doc's snide trolling assertions to what might come. They may actually be precient if not now fact. Whether they'll be enough to win the day, if and when, remains to be seen.

I don't anticipate P.A. operations in N. Waziristan nor in eastern Baluchistan. You now need those proxy armies as counterweights against an emerging bevy of enemies. It's entirely conceivable that you'll have wished your worst nightmares into being.

America has made many mistakes. Please read that closely. However, this is not a debating society and we aren't the only ones who've done so. Fortunately for us, we can make our retreat when we've acceded to the emerging reality. You won't. There was a time when your active assistance might have mattered but, like our reinforcements, I believe your actions come as too little too late.

Thanks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fortunately for us, we can make our retreat when we've acceded to the emerging reality. You won't.

And that, may have been amongst the first few arguments I made to you after making your acquaintance on the WAB.

And I know that aside from me, Blain and Kasrkin have made the same, multiple times.

And that scenario has perhaps been the largest constraint facing Pakistan when deliberating action in FATA.

 

[S-2]

"And that, may have been amongst the first few arguments I made to you after making your acquaintance on the WAB."

Then you should have recognized a limit to our patience and resources. We're nearing both. My preference would be to not come close to those limits and, instead, leave now. I see matters irreversible. We should have done more while we could. So should have you. Neither did. So here it is.

My government will likely not follow my prescription so we'll be there for a while longer and be milked by the GoA and yourselves but I don't see success of ANY sort anywhere on the horizon where it might have all been possible up to 2006. More troops won't make an improvement, IMV.

"And that scenario has perhaps been the largest constraint facing Pakistan when deliberating action in FATA."

Well there's a cost to more than one country for deliberation and dalliance to distraction. You've played your cards. We're playing ours.

From my perspective, you lose even if you win. We needed those non-existent sanctuaries led by those invisible leaders removed. You didn't for your own reasons. If you think blowback is bad now, IMV you've seen nothing yet.

JMHO, of course.

 

[hembo]

Before you point your fingers at Gen.Hamid, what about Col.Purohit? Does that ring a bell?

Ahem, Col. Purohit is in Indian Police's custody and is being procecuted, whilst Hamid Gul and likes of him are free as a bird and still singing the Jehadi songs.

In any case, your post had lost it's credibility the moment you wrote:

It has gone to the extent of blowing up its own civilians with the help of M.I so that it could turn the barrels of the foreign media towards Pakistan, but fortunately or unfortunately the machination turned out to be a fiasco.

and this

If your intelligence agencies are involved in the killings of its own people, what makes you think they are not involved in Pakistan

Before you ask us if we want a Taliban Gov, do you want an RSS regime?

No, we don't. Wasn't that made quite obvious to the world by the overwhelming way the Indians had voted the religious parties out of power recently?

 

[Bull]

Believe the terrorist committing terrorist attacks where he gets his support from ... his comments cannot be completely discarded, otherwise you might as well throw the entire dossier based on information Kasab gave you into the garbage, along with anything Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and various other terrorists said while in custody of the US.

Manmohan Singh is not about to admit this on TV now is he?

In any case, lets await more details. I am interested in seeing whether this alleged video was that of an interrogation or one made while Usman Mujahid was free.

We gave you dossier a year or so back which has evidence from Kassab, but was rubbished by Pakistan. Now you come out with a interview of a man who is a wanted terrorist and blame India. What do you expect us to, you take the blame for 26/11 and we will talk.

 

[Spring Onion]

We gave you dossier a year or so back which has evidence from Kassab, but was rubbished by Pakistan. Now you come out with a interview of a man who is a wanted terrorist and blame India. What do you expect us to, you take the blame for 26/11 and we will talk.

Bull we had recieved another dossier from India day before yesterday so first Bharatyas should decide whether they are sure about their earlier dossiers themeselves and if they are sure of those than please stop sending us one after one with amendments because here we already have alot of raddi paper and i dont think so the paper of your dossiers would be of much of the quality so we even cant re-cycle it for further use and we also dont use the paper in toilet.

BTW welcome back nice to see you after a long time.

 

[SMC]

Why this big deal about Hamid Gul? Unlike Purohit, he is not involved in actual terrorist activities. Are indians trying to stray from the video?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

no they just have no counter-evidence to prove anything. Lt. Gen (retd.) Gul was even willing to meet with those accusing him or "supporting terrorism"

he is just a patriot that the enemies of Pakistan are afraid of. That is my opinion.

There is no damning evidence against him. His only contact with fighters was during his days when he was DG ISI.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Christine Fair gets it bang on the spot once again:

"But Pakistan's charges that India is arming Baluch rebels and using Indian consulates in Afghanistan for anti-Pakistan activities also get short shrift, other analysts say.

"When the United States says it does not have information on this, they are not actually looking. India is our new friend and we don't want to know what they are doing," said Christine Fair, an India expert at Georgetown University."

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN18122957

That is precisely what I have argued several times - the evidence of Indian involvement has been provided to the US. The US deliberately chooses to look the other way so as to not endanger its rising strategic and economic relationship with India.

Let me answer the question of what Indians are doing, that the US refuses to see, they are 'pumping money into Baluchistan' and possibly some Taliban factions, in support of terrorism in Pakistan.