India provides money, targets to terrorists in Pak: Terrorist claims on video

[Nemesis]

None of the other news channels or news papers have carried this story, which indicates only Aaj news obtained that video. That would seem to indicate it was not distributed by the GoP since they would have wanted it to be disseminated widely, and would have given copies to all the news channels.

It could also mean the story is fabricated. How credible is Aaj news?

 

[TalibanSwatter]

In all of that there is 'cheer-leading by Pakistanis and retired Pakistani militarily officials for terrorism in India', akin to the depravity on display by Indians, where?

And when you say it backs up 'my assessment of the non-state and non-institutional' nature of the Mumbai plot', are you suggesting you believe differently from that assessment?

And if you believe differently, why?

I agree with the analysis that the plot was driven by non-state actors.

My point was this:

As the research article illustrates, Senior Pakistani Military officers have pointed the finger at the local Jihadi syndicate including the taliban and their Arab patrons in Saudi for the current unrest.

The analysis indicates that retired military officers with links to the Arab world could be involved. The US believes several ex-military officers including Hamid Gul should be designated as terrorists for supporting TTP and Al Qaeda. They forwarded the list of names to the UN but no action has been taken due to back channel lobbying by pakistan with help from china.

On the Mumbai attack front, the government has pretty much admitted that LeT was involved in the Mumbai attack, an outfit that has linkages with AQ, gets tons of funding from its sponsors in Saudi while ex-military officers like Gul play the role of advisor and 'patron'.

Pakistani security officials have also confirmed the JM/LeJ/TTP/AQ nexus and their roles in recent terror attacks with support from Arab donors.

At the end of the day, all indicators point to the local Jihadi network, supported by their Salafi Arab patrons and handled by ex-military officers turned jihadists.

So even if the Indians are adding fuel to the TTP fire, their involvement pales in comparison to the home-grown and salafi-funded Jihadi/TTP monster rampaging across the country.

Bottomline: Lets focus on tackling the vastly more dangerous threat posed by the 800 pound Jihadi Godzilla. Bashing or sorting out india can wait.

 

[nwmalik]

CM Shahbaz sharif just addressed a press conference and stated that there if clear evidence of indian involvement in balauchistan and waziristan.

Please bring this evidence out for us to see.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Which is why I question the credibility of the video - I think its a fake.

It could also mean the story is fabricated. How credible is Aaj news?

Aaj news is a pretty large TV channel in Pakistan - I have not come across anything suggesting they would deliberately fabricate news.

That does not automatically mean the video is credible or true, Aaj news could have been fooled by whatever source provided them with it, but the network itself is credible.

We will probably find out more as time passes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I agree with the analysis that the plot was driven by non-state actors.

My bigger point was this:

As the research article illustrates, Senior Pakistani Military officers have pointed the finger at the local Jihadi syndicate including the taliban and their Arab patrons in Saudi for the current unrest.

The analysis indicates that retired military officers with links to the Arab world could be involved. The US believes several ex-military officers including Hamid Gul should be designated as terrorists for supporting TTP and Al Qaeda. They forwarded the list of names to the UN but no action has been taken due to back channel lobbying by pakistan with help from china.

The US might suspect, I doubt they actually have any evidence, otherwise Gul and these other retired officers would be in prison in Pakistan.

If Pakistan can place AQ Khan under house arrest then Gul would be no issue at all, and the military has shown under Musharraf (with Gen. Kiyani as DG ISI) that it can and will track and prosecute serving military officers who plotted against the State and military.

Given all of the above, I call BS on the speculation over Hamid Gul's support for Al Qaeda and terrorism. He might be linked to the Kashmiri insurgent groups fighting the Indians, and probably does support them, but you are not going to find any significant support in Pakistan for punishing H Gul and others for that - not unless the Indians are likewise penalized for their occupation of Kashmir and the atrocities committed by their security forces.

The effort to get H Gul blacklisted was probably initiated by the Indians because of his support for Kashmiri groups, trying to utilize the leverage they (the Indians) had after the Mumbai attacks, and probably failed because of that reason as well, since no actual connection between Al Qaeda and terrorism such as Mumbai could be established, and Pakistan was not going to let someone be punished for supporting what it considers a legitimate struggle against Indian occupation.

On the Mumbai attack front, the government has pretty much admitted that LeT was involved in the Mumbai attack, an outfit that has linkages with AQ, gets tons of funding from its sponsors in Saudi while ex-military officers like Gul play the role of advisor and 'patron'.

And we are prosecuting those involved. Gul has not condoned the Mumbai attacks - he might be a JuD/LeT supporter in terms of supporting the Kashmir cause, but I have yet to see anything that suggests he knew about the Mumbai plot and supported the planning and execution of the Mumbai attacks in anyway.

Bottomline: Lets focus on tackling the vastly more dangerous threat posed by the 800 pound Jihadi Godzilla. Bashing or sorting out india can wait.

'Sorting out' India can wait, highlighting its connections and support for the Baluch insurgents and possibly some Taliban factions cannot wait and should not wait, and is not counterproductive, so long as people also realize that India is acting through 'Pakistanis and Muslims', and that we need to neutralize the local facilitators.

By all means highlight the 'Arab Salafist' connections all you want, but by the same token allow others to also highlight the Indian connection if they believe it to be true (and our government certainly does).

Once again, whether these Pakistani terrorist groups are acting on their own, with support from Arabs or Indians or a combination of all three is not important in terms of public opinion. What is important is that there is public recognition of the threat from Pakistani terrorists and they are neutralized.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

The US might suspect, I doubt they actually have any evidence, otherwise Gul and these other retired officers would be in prison in Pakistan.

The effort to get H Gul blacklisted was probably initiated by the Indians because of his support for Kashmiri groups, trying to utilize the leverage they (the Indians) had after the Mumbai attacks, and probably failed because of that reason as well, since no actual connection between Al Qaeda and terrorism such as Mumbai could be established, and Pakistan was not going to let someone be punished for supporting what it considers a legitimate struggle against Indian occupation.

And we are prosecuting those involved. Gul has not condoned the Mumbai attacks - he might be a JuD/LeT supporter in terms of supporting the Kashmir cause, but I have yet to see anything that suggests he knew about the Mumbai plot and supported the planning and execution of the Mumbai attacks in anyway.

I don't share your perspective on the HG issue. HG has not been touched because he has powerful allies that include his patrons in Saudi.

Its a little hard for me to believe that HG being the political patron and advisor to LeT, had no clue about the most vicious attack ever organized by the LeT on Indian soil.

And what did Gul actually say about the Mumbai Attacks? That it was an inside job! Perhaps Mr. Gul is trying to deflect attention from his pets in LeT.

Besides, the LeT is no longer fixated on Kashmir. As the French Investigator Brugiere pointed out, the salafi- inspired LeT has strong linkages with AQ and is now focused on a pan-jihadi agenda that goes way beyond Kashmir.

The US government probably has a very good reason for putting Gul on the terrorist list. If they were being cavalier about it, they would've put 50 ex-officers on the list as opposed to just 5.

Gul, 71, has acknowledged that he once was a member of a group of retired ISI officers, Pakistani scientists and others that was suspected by the United States of giving material support to the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Gul said the organization, Ummah Tameer-e-Nau, was formed by a group of Pakistani businessmen to aid war-ravaged industries in Afghanistan.

The U.S. Treasury Department declared Ummah Tameer-e-Nau a terrorist group after a search of the group's offices in the Afghan capital, Kabul, unearthed documents referencing plans to kidnap a U.S. diplomat and outlining basic physics related to nuclear weapons.

Even Musharraf named Gul in 2006 as one of the retired ISI officers suspected of fomenting unrest in the tribal areas.
------------------------------------------
DAWN News
October 2006

ISLAMABAD: Two former chiefs of the Inter-Services Intelligence have rejected as baseless a statement of President Pervez Musharraf about former officials of the agency abetting Taliban.

Former ISI directors-general Asad Durrani and Hameed Gul, talking to Dawn, said there was no need to issue such a speculative statement.

Mr Gul said former officers of the ISI were not involved in helping Taliban. He said the Taliban surfaced in 1994, some five years after his tenure as ISI chief was over and about three years after his retirement from the army. (Does anyone really believe HG had no role in the jihadi/taliban network after he formally retired??)

He said Gen Musharraf was a distinct type of team captain who was scoring goals against his own team by accusing his own people. The nation was astonished to see the captain hell-bent to see his own team’s defeat, he said.

Mr Gul claimed that a charge-sheet against him was being prepared.

--------------------------------

So you'll have to excuse me if I take the implication that HG does not support LeT/Taliban/AQ in the global jihad context(beyond Kashmir) with a big pinch of salt.

 

[Developereo]

On the contrary go to the WaPO, NYT, Times of India and various other Western and Indian fora and sites, and there is no dearth of comments from Indians (or posters with Indian names/locations) basking and reveling in the fact that terrorism is occurring in Pakistan.

I was thoroughly disgusted to see Fareed Zakaria and the Indian babboon Shashi Tharoor grinning from ear to ear while discussing terrorist blasts in Pakistan.

Long War Journal

Blog articles from a rabidly anti-Pakistan site are even less credible than the NYT or TOI.

One other thing with respect to Hamid Gul, even if he is guilty of cavorting with extremists, he is no longer in the military.

We cannot control what people do in their private lives, and if he has chosen to associate with shady characters, then he has done so as a Pakistani civilian, much like Baitullah Mehsud has chosen a particular path as a Pakistani civilian.

Their actions do not automatically reflect on Pakistanis as a whole nor on the institution of the military.

I see Hamid Gul as a Pakistani version of Oliver North.

So even if the Indians are adding fuel to the TTP fire, their involvement pales in comparison to the home-grown and salafi-funded Jihadi/TTP monster rampaging across the country.

Our military is fighting the TTP. If India is engaged in proxy war by funding or training people to fight against our military, it is not a trivial matter to be 'discussed later'.

If the interview claimed that some Arab country was supporting the TTP, you would be the first to jump on the news. Why, then, are you so dismissive of claims of Indian complicity? Why the double standard?

 

[zombie]

Peanuts.Makes no difference. For every one such video there are 1000 corresponding videos of terrorism by Pakistan. We still have to catch up with 999.

 

[SMC]

It's not a mere idea of india adding fuel to the fire, no. TTP had mere sparks but india gave it all the fuel to start the fire and make it what it is today.

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

Peanuts.Makes no difference. For every one such video there are 1000 corresponding videos of terrorism by Pakistan. We still have to catch up with 999.

So you have to take a diversion as the only way to defend RAW here?

 

[S-2]

The potential for a disinformation campaign that sings to Pakistani ears is clear. The Pakistani gov't doesn't move combat divisions west at America's behest. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe that it doesn't with-hold evidence of foreign involvement from global eyes at America's behest either.

If there's an argument to be made detailing India's involvement in fomenting insurrection in Baluchistan and/or FATAville, it should be categorized and brought forth. The U.N. would be a reasonable forum for such. If not, a press conference with the national leadership present, indicating consensus about such evidence would also be possible. Further, doing so lays the cards on the table and attaches the personal prestige of your civil and military leaders to such.

Colin Powell clearly had egg on his face from his Adlai Stevenson moment at the U.N. That is part of the risk. However, IMV, one of the roles a serving officer or politician has is to fall on his sword at the command of his government and/or his personal views. Careerism is utterly distasteful to me and neither should politicians, government leaders, nor serving officers of the military EVER partake in such conduct.

I personally don't believe that it serves any useful purpose to India to engage in such activity. The resources aren't needed nor are the targets. Most of all, such conduct places India's prestige at risk while working AGAINST Indian interests.

The Pakistani government really needs to step up or step away from these assertions in order for all of us to move forward. As of now, it chains and binds your public in a comforting narrative that must either be affirmed as fact or swept away as fantasy.

Thanks.

 

[Developereo]

Peanuts.Makes no difference. For every one such video there are 1000 corresponding videos of terrorism by Pakistan. We still have to catch up with 999.

You have the Western media and governments pushing your agenda, and covering up your terrorism.

We are working by ourselves.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I suppose same goes for Pakistan ISI @ s2 disinformation campaign..
UN is of no use and its clear from that "unilateral attack" on iraq due to disinformation campaign..I'm still waiting where are those WMDs in iraq.
The evidence is there you are in no position to dictate Army/ISI when and where to whom to present the evidence of the involvement of tri parties and not just India. One step at a time.

 

[S-2]

"UN is of no use and its clear from that "unilateral attack" on iraq due to disinformation campaign.."

Don't let your congenital anti-Americanism get in the way. As forums go, it's Pakistan's opportunity to put its views before a lot of nations at once. Get it right and you win the information battle.

If you're convinced of your information, it can only be because you've tested your assertions internally and have found them valid. Bringing them forth is the easy part unless it's as half-baked as our assertions were.

"I'm still waiting where are those WMDs in iraq."

Somebody like you WOULD still be caught standing around.

Know this: Saddam's dead. The baath party is dismantled. Iraqi irridentist ambitions for invasion are nullified. WMD use upon shias, Iran, and Kurds is now a moot issue as there shall be no such programs for the foreseeable future. Kurds are free and, most important, Iraqis are now able to fcuk things up collectively rather than let one guy do all the damage...

...and take all the blame.

Where it goes from here is on them. Nobody else.

"The evidence is there..."

Where there?

"you are in no position to dictate Army/ISI when and where to whom to present the evidence of the involvement of tri parties and not just India."

Moi? S-2?! Of course I am. I DEMAND that the Pakistani government do EXACTLY AS I ORDER AND DO SO FORTHWITH.

Do you suffer from a reading disability? Did you not read this-

"The Pakistani gov't doesn't move combat divisions west at America's behest. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe that it doesn't with-hold evidence of foreign involvement from global eyes at America's behest either."

"One step at a time."

Just like a swaddling baby.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Pakistani government really needs to step up or step away from these assertions in order for all of us to move forward.

Why such a unilateral demand?

I do not see either the US or India stepping away from their own arguments of suspected Pakistani complicity in various ways that itself drives an anti-Pakistan narrative in both the West and India.

Perhaps the US and India should show how its done by 'stepping away from their own assertions in order for everyone to move forward, instead of 'chaining and binding your public in a comforting narrative that must either be affirmed as fact or swept away as fantasy'.

Till then the circumstantial evidence, such as this video, will kep adding up, and I will accept my government's word on the issue much like you do yours.

After all, you have nothing but faith in your government to substantiate the conviction that the Quetta Shura exists.

 

[mr42O]

LOL Indians dont want to belive this terrorist but how did you belive kasab ?

Send ur media who can intervjue him in Pakistan also India can do same with kasab.