India provides money, targets to terrorists in Pak: Terrorist claims on video

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I don't share your perspective on the HG issue. HG has not been touched because he has powerful allies that include his patrons in Saudi.

Blaming everything on the omnipotent Saudis will only go so far and is getting old very fast.

Its a little hard for me to believe that HG being the political patron and advisor to LeT, had no clue about the most vicious attack ever organized by the LeT on Indian soil.

Why not? The LeT is not some disciplined hierarchical organization like the military where a chain of command is always followed. Much is made of the fact that they were favorites of the Military as a Kashmiri insurgent group, yet they chose to act unilaterally in perpetrating Mumbai and inflamed the Indo-Pak relationship at a time when the back channel negotiations initiated by Musharraf were close to achieving some results.

So why would an alleged benefactor know of every operation being planned by group?

And what did Gul actually say about the Mumbai Attacks? That it was an inside job! Perhaps Mr. Gul is trying to deflect attention from his pets in LeT.

Zaid Hamid and numerous other right wing columinsts and commentators said much the same, long before Hamid Gul came out with his opinion - are they all covering up their role in the Mumbai attacks?

This is pure speculation on your part and you know it.

Besides, the LeT is no longer fixated on Kashmir. As the French Investigator Brugiere pointed out, the salafi- inspired LeT has strong linkages with AQ and is now focused on a pan-jihadi agenda that goes way beyond Kashmir.

Brugiere also claimed he was informed the Pakistani military/intelligence was supporting attacks in Australia - for what motive? That ludicrous claim puts some of his other conclusions in doubt as well.

In any case, certain sections of the LeT may have indeed become radicalized to where they were looking to attack civilian targets outside of Pakistan, but Mumbai appears to be the first manifestation of that radicalization, and it does not automatically implicate Hamid Gul.

The US government probably has a very good reason for putting Gul on the terrorist list. If they were being cavalier about it, they would've put 50 ex-officers on the list as opposed to just 5.

Gul, 71, has acknowledged that he once was a member of a group of retired ISI officers, Pakistani scientists and others that was suspected by the United States of giving material support to the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Gul said the organization, Ummah Tameer-e-Nau, was formed by a group of Pakistani businessmen to aid war-ravaged industries in Afghanistan.

The U.S. Treasury Department declared Ummah Tameer-e-Nau a terrorist group after a search of the group's offices in the Afghan capital, Kabul, unearthed documents referencing plans to kidnap a U.S. diplomat and outlining basic physics related to nuclear weapons.

Again, Gul's membership in UTN, founded by a widely respected (in Pakistan) nuclear scientist does not automatically imply that he was actively involved in trying to help AQ obtain a nuclear weapon.

Mr Gul said former officers of the ISI were not involved in helping Taliban. He said the Taliban surfaced in 1994, some five years after his tenure as ISI chief was over and about three years after his retirement from the army. (Does anyone really believe HG had no role in the jihadi/taliban network after he formally retired??)

Given that we had massive resources being poured in by the Pakistani, Saudi and UAE states, do you really think HG's contributions as an individual surpassed all or were even necessary?

Gul is an Islamist, no doubt about that, and he no doubt provided funds and support for the Afghan Taliban (when they were rising) and various insurgent groups fighting the Indian security forces in kashmir, as the Pakistani State may have, but that does not make him complicit in the terrorism perpetrated in Mumbai.

Nothing you have provided so far substantiates his guilt in the context of supporting terrorism, though there is a lot of speculation.

 

[mr42O]

Hafiz Usman Mujahid, a wanted terrorist belonging to banned outfit Lahkar-e-Jhangvi, has so much credibility that we have to believe his words.

Ohh my god what else will you guys believe ?

more than kasab

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

f****ing indians.....


and equally f****ed up spineless establishment that isnt doing more to show the world what this god-forsaken neighbour is doing


in this case, a job best done is a job done on your own. And Inshallah we will cut the hands of all enemies of the Republic.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Blaming everything on the omnipotent Saudis will only go so far and is getting old very fast.

So why would an alleged benefactor know of every operation being planned by group?

Given that we had massive resources being poured in by the Pakistani, Saudi and UAE states, do you really think HG's contributions as an individual surpassed all or were even necessary?

Gul is an Islamist, no doubt about that, and he no doubt provided funds and support for the Afghan Taliban (when they were rising) and various insurgent groups fighting the Indian security forces in kashmir, as the Pakistani State may have, but that does not make him complicit in the terrorism perpetrated in Mumbai.

I'm simply connecting the dots and raising some concerns. I'm taking into account actions taken against HG by the US, as well as the suspicions cast on him by the Musharraf government in 2006. But most importantly, HG's past track record with the Taliban /AQ/ Jihadi nexus including his various statements on the topic speaks for itself and is sufficent cause for concern.

As the Dawn report shows, he brazenly lies about his extent of involvement with the taliban/jihadi movement so his credibility has already been shredded!

It is no secret that HG's contributions to the jihadi movement have been significant - the issue is not whether he surpassed all others.

At the end of the day, there is a reason why he is referred to as the Godfather of the Taliban.

I want to address one important issue - HG's ties with the Saudis are no joke. He is one of their most trusted friends in the region.

Can you imagine the gall of the Saudis asking Musharraf to release Hamid Gul from jail? What business is it of the Saudis asking for the release of a pakistani national?? Clearly, like Mian Sahib, HG must be pretty high on the food chain for the Saudis to make such an demand.

Of course, the Saudis value both NS and HG for different reasons - one provides clout in the political domain, while the other has played an important role in creating and managing the jihadi network channeling funding support from the Saudis.

News Jang Group
November 2007

ISLAMABAD: Saudi Arabia has quietly asked the Pakistani authorities to immediately release the ailing Lt General Hameed Gul who is incarcerated in Adiala jail along with his son Abdullah, as the retired general is considered an old friend of the Kingdom and King Abdullah is one of his admirers.

It would be the first time that the Saudis or any foreign government has made a request for release of a retired Army general who has been put in the jail for opposing the policies of General Musharraf.

Saudi ambassador to Pakistan, Ali Awadh Asseri, has conveyed a message to the Pakistani authorities that the old friend of the Kingdom should be released as he is widely respected for his services to the cause of Islam during the Afghan Jihad.

The Saudis, being the major financiers of the Jihad, used to send millions of dollars through General Gul and were very impressed with his honest handling of the money. He impressed them more when he returned a very expensive gift to his Saudi hosts.

The Saudi ambassador is said to have contacted Uzma Gul, his daughter and expressed his deep sorrow over the ordeal. He is said to have told Uzma that the Saudi government was taking up the issue of his release.

When contacted by The News, Uzma Gul confirmed that she had received a telephone call from the Saudi ambassador in Pakistan. She also confirmed that the ambassador had informed her that the Saudi government was “requesting” Islamabad authorities to release the general. She however refused to give further details of her telephone talk with the Saudi ambassador.

Meanwhile, a board of military doctors after examining Hameed Gul has recommended his immediate shifting to a hospital as his condition was worsening because of heart ailment. His family says he is being humiliated and subjected to mental torture as he is not allowed to sleep in the night. Even his son Abdullah, who is a businessman, has been put in jail to break his nerves.

According to Uzma Gul, General Musharraf, who served as staff officer to General Gul in Multan, wants his former boss to file a mercy petition for his freedom. She said the humiliating offer was simply laughed off by Gul.

General Faiz Ali Chishti, the head of Pakistan ex-service men association, has already written a letter to the vice chief of Army staff General Ashfaq Kiyani demanding his release.
----------------------------


Last but not least - just think about it. You asked - Why would HG, a known 'patron' of LET as acknowledged by pakistani officials, know about a plot organized by LeT? You implied it could just be some section of LeT that became radicalized enough to carry out the attack on its own.

First of all, the Mumbai plot was not just any ordinary plot. Secondly, given the involvement of senior level LeT operatives who are currently in custody, it is clear that the attack was not carried out by some crazy LeT splinter group.

So it is not unreasonable to strongly suspect that HG, 'advisor and patron' of LeT, might have had an 'inkling' about the plot - IMHO.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Lt. Gen (retd.) Hamid Gul is a nationalist, and he represents no threat. Yes he was collaborating with anti-soviet forces as DG ISI -- he was doing his job as ordered. And he did it damn well (as the soviet withdrawal, and chunk of Berlin Wall on his desk signify).

I doubt he has contact with any anti-Pakistan elements. He loves Pakistan and he served Pakistan.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Lt. Gen (retd.) Hamid Gul is a nationalist, and he represents no threat. Yes he was collaborating with anti-soviet forces as DG ISI -- he was doing his job as ordered. And he did it damn well (as the soviet withdrawal, and chunk of Berlin Wall on his desk signify).

Frankly, I'm more concerned about what Mr. Gul has potentially been upto over the last 10 years.

Sunday, December 07, 2008
News Jang Group

ISLAMABAD: A secret US document, marked as releasable to the Government of Pakistan, has linked former Inter-Services Intelligence chief Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Gul to the Taliban and al-Qaeda networks.

The two-page unsigned document had already been provided to the government, a knowledgeable source revealed to The News here on Saturday on condition of anonymity.

He said Gul had been charged in the paper with providing financial assistance to Kabul-based criminal groups and involvement in spotting, assessing, recruiting and training young men from seminaries.

The recruits are reportedly trained for attacks on the US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan. The ex-general, according to the source, has been accused of assisting the Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters in developing high-tech weapons.

In Washington, the State Department's Deputy Spokesman Robert Wood had declined to comment on earlier reports that such a list had been sent to the UN. If we decide to send names, we will let the media know, he responded to a question on the subject on Thursday.

But the document seen by The News reveals the US had sent the name of Lt-Gen Hameed Gul to the Government of Pakistan.

Gul is one of the five erstwhile ISI officials whose names Washington has recommended to the UN Security Council for inclusion in the list of international terrorists. When contacted by this scribe, Gul laughed off the charges which, according to him, are simply hilarious. He promised to come up with a para-wise response to the charges levelled against him on Sunday or Monday.

As per the paper, his name is spelled as Lieutenant General (retired) Hamid Gul, Hameed Gul and Haimid Gul.

His passport number, according to the document, is BA479001. Lieutenant General (retired) Hamid Gul was Director-General of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) from 1987-1989.

Hamid Gul has maintained extensive contacts over the years with Taliban and al-Qaeda operatives located in Pakistan, providing financial support and encouragement to these groups.

It claimed: In 2005, Hamid Gul provided general, over-arching guidance to the Taliban leadership on operational activities in Afghanistan.

In 2008, Hamid Gul was in contact with the militant group Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and its leadership, including Baitullah Mahsud, and provided the TTP leadership and operatives with guidance on the conduct of militant operations in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region.Since at least 2005, the paper says, Hameed Gul has also provided financial and material support to the Taliban and has supported militant training camps in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region. As of late 2006, Gul allegedly directed a Taliban operative to head a militant training camp.

Hamid Gul was a regular contact for Sirajuddin Haqqani and regularly apprised Sirajuddin of Pakistan government activity in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA),the document continues.

Haqqani is a top Taliban commander, added to the UN 1,267 Committee consolidated list of individuals and entities associated with al-Qaeda or the Taliban on September 13, 2007. He was named specially designated globalterrorist pursuant to EO 13224 on March 11, 2008.

As of early 2007, Gul was involved in spotting, assessing, and recruiting young men from various Pakistani Madrassas for training in eventual attacks against US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan. The training consisted of techniques for laying mines, arson and suicide bombings. As of late 2006, Gul was also involved in the training camps.

In late 2006, Gul provided money to a Kabul-based criminal group for every International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) member that the group kidnapped and turned over to the Taliban.

In addition to these kidnapping-for-ransom activities, this criminal group sold weapons and explosives to the Taliban and acted as travel facilitators for Taliban members in Afghanistan.

Gul was on the board of directors of Umman Tameer-e-Nau (UTN), a non-governmental organisation formed to help the Taliban and al-Qaeda networks develop high-tech weapons, the paper charges.

The UN 1,267 Committee added the UTN to its consolidated list of individuals and entities associated with al-Qaeda or the Taliban on December 24, 2001.

---------------------------

The fact that Musharraf accused Gul among other retired ISI officers in 2006 of creating unrest in the border region and supporting militants lends even greater credence to the classified US charge sheet.

And in HG's own words:

Hamid Gul's Interview with a Arab Daily - April 2009 (excerpts)

[Asharq Al-Awsat] How did the Pakistani intelligence services help in establishing the Taliban movement? Is it paying the price at present?

[Gul] We helped the Taliban at first but we ended the training in 1989 and everything came to a stop. (..what a joke!! ) Most of the members of the Taliban movement were Afghan veterans that were trained during the Afghan war. We did not train anyone after 1989. So this training stopped about 20 years ago. Naturally, those that we trained have become older. So you give the wrong impression when you say that they are the same citizens that we trained.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] But is the support network that you established for the Afghan jihad active now in fighting against the Pakistani army?

[Gul] No, it is not the same network but the same spirit of jihad dominates the scene. (hmm..so he thinks TTP is doing jihad?)There is no network. Only look at the scene in the tribal region. There is no network there. Each tribe is fighting in its region and no tribe crosses to the region of the other tribe. Each tribe has its command structure. At present, they have formed the “Tehrik-e Pakistan Taliban” (The Pakistani Taliban Movement) but it does not control all the Taliban groups in the tribal region.


[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do you totally reject the idea that the Pakistani intelligence service has connections to the Taliban movement?

[Gul] No, let me tell you what kind of connections. I am a retired official but the al-Qaeda Afghan elements - Abdul Rasul Sayyaf and others - are against Pakistan but they are my friends. As far as I am concerned, they are old friends. So there are social relations. (apparently it does'nt matter to HG that his AQ Afghan buddies are anti-pakistan...what a patriot!)But it is not true at all to say that Pakistani intelligence officials are now supporting the Taliban movement and that this is their policy. This is incorrect.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

he's been sitting at home at Askari Villas, occasionally talking to media now and then.....

his daughter runs a bus company....


not much to report. I dont buy this other report, but i would demand inquiry if corroborated.

 

[S-2]

"Perhaps the US and India should show how its done...After all, you have nothing but faith in your government to substantiate the conviction that the Quetta Shura exists."

A.M., I'd disagree.

At this point, we've the words of others here and elsewhere. You've embraced David Rohde's observations of the conditions existing in Miram Shah. I don't doubt his word of being chauffeured about by none other than Jahaluddin Haqqani's son. Evidently neither do you.

You've accepted Petraeus' one clear example. Do you think I need more? Nobody here has refuted that Nazir and Bahadur have sent Pakistanis to fight in Afghanistan nor that Omar (from wherever he is) attempted to sway Mehsud to do the same. These men reside on your lands.

Sanctuary is, therefore, established more than adequately in the minds of our public and leaders as well as yours whether you need to assign the name "Quetta shura" to it or not. For all I know those men may be residing in Karachi by now.

We have proof adequate to our view. We've simply refused to act upon it as we might.

 

[Barrett]

For all I know those men may be residing in Karachi by now.

Really ? you are very well-informed.

If you could provide the addresses i would love to pay them a visit.

Thanks

 

[Seadog1]

In Pakistan there were more then 1800 terrorist attacks last year,,,,but only a dozen or so in India,,, Pakistan is No 1 again. Pakistan needs to worry about terrorism not India.

 

[Trisonics]

Very Interesting video

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

 

[SMC]

^^ That video proves nothing except showing that Pakistanis believe foreign forces are behind the attack. The main point everyone is trying to make is yes they are Pakistani or some foreign terrorists from Afghanistan or Central Asia, no doubt about that, but they are getting huge amount of support in many ways from india.

 

[Trisonics]

^^ That video proves nothing except showing that Pakistanis believe foreign forces are behind the attack. The main point everyone is trying to make is yes they are Pakistani or some foreign terrorists from Afghanistan or Central Asia, no doubt about that, but they are getting huge amount of support in many ways from india.

The video was not posted as any proof, but I was surprised that only 25% of the population think the Taliban are involved. I'm tired of asking where is the proof so I'm ready to wait until somebody can prove it, until then for me its a conspiracy theory.

I don't believe so much in surveys but why are common Pakistani's so sure about other countries being involved? Is it because most see it as a Muslim vs non-Muslim issue?

 

[SMC]

I don't believe the survey is correct. Another survey showed some 85% as anti-taliban and said taliban were cause of problems. This might be one of those classical surveys where the respondents were asked ambigious questions or their answers were taken out of context or the questioneers took their answers in a different way than what they meant. Maybe 75% said they felt foreigners were funding it and these people assumed that all of those people believed taliban were not involved. As mentioned, very few people doubt taliban involvement. The major concern is where they are getting their funding from.

 

[toxic_pus]

Interesting observation

WASHINGTON DIARY: Tourism and the extremist threat — Dr Manzur Ejaz

-snip-

A recent issue of the fake “The Dawn”, not the Karachi-based respected daily, by a group of fifth columnists and ‘patriotic’ journalists was circulated on the internet. The fifth columnists included some enlightened opinion-makers. The short list of ‘patriots’ included the ones who are still sticking to the ideology and foreign policy that has brought the country to the brink of collapse. Most observers believe that circulation of such a list, through a fake newspaper, was the work of the intelligence agencies, notorious for triggering such malicious propaganda stunts.

Of course the Pakistani military is fighting the Taliban with full force. Despite the cynical view in some circles about its sincerity, it is easy to see why the military has to finish such a force. The military, as a group along with its industrial complex — the largest in the country — is at the top of the beneficiaries of the Pakistani state. Therefore the military’s interests are directly threatened if the Pakistani state is endangered. Using jihadists for proxy wars was another matter but when its own interests are at stake, the military is not going to be a bystander. Therefore the military action against the Taliban is very real and most probably will succeed, though it may take some time.

Despite the crusade against the Taliban and some other extremist groups, it seems that the military is trying to hold on to its own core ideology that has evolved during the last 60 years. The key components of this core ideology comprise an anti-India obsession and the use of religion as the state ideology. Both are linked: Muslim identity is deemed essential to fight Hindu India and vice versa. An anti-India religious identity has been made so pivotal that to fight the Taliban, the military has to dub them as Indian agents. This may be partially true, but everyone knows who created and trained the Taliban.

In this backdrop, the danger is that despite finishing the Taliban, the core conservative ideology may survive and keep suffocating the country. Such an ideology will not allow the economy to grow in many new areas in which Pakistan has a lot of potential. Tourism is one such sector, but it needs an open society where everyone is welcome.

-snip-

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan