India Outlines New Carrier Ambitions

[Srinivas]

F 35 is the best 5th gen fighter aircraft that is available out there to buy.

India needs both quality and quantity to defend itself in worse case scenarios. India is fast a becoming Naval power. The deal will address all the issues considering the experience of India with USA in the past.

Some of the US companies are planning to source defence components from India this includes Lockheed Maritin I guess. Very soon it is expected that US defence companies will establish manufacturing bases here in India.

Mean while India's AMCA program will pick up the pace and will eventually replace Migs, Rafales and what ever aircraft that are being inducted in medium role.

what all are talking is that India may buy F35 for our future AC, as far as i know India is not going to buy any F35's because of the unreliability on Americas part, Americans have the habit of blackmailing whenever their interest matters and they have done it often, even with their allies, india has bought transport aircraft's only because it has more civilian components and in case of emergency our our airport service depots can manage them, in the govt circles there is lot of undercurrents and mistrust among babus and policy makers in India, what if america threatens with sanctions for some reason when we are in middle of war with their old ally Pakistan and deny spares to the planes which will ground all the planes, the Americans have done this before to India, even though the planes are very good they cannot fly without maintenance, and without maintenance F35's are like white elephants, and the maintenance depends on the spares provided by the manufacturer.

 

[Providence]

We need 65000 Nuclear powered aircraft career with 1000 KM range hypersonic brahmos and excellent EW with something like tejas Mk2, Rafale and Mig 29 on board with Agies type system , MR SAM and Maitri with electromagnetism catapult.

you sure u don't need some big canned wh0res over there ?

 

[Srinivas]

Nuclear propelled carriers are useless without supporting doctrines. They are large sitting ducks with reactors open to missile strikes. The US solved it by declaring that any attack on a US Carrier will result in an immediate nuclear retaliation. With India's No First Strike policy, these strategic assets will not get any such safety checks.

Aircraft carrier is India's territory so any attack on AC is an attack on India.

 

[SpArK]

Stage set for Super Hornets and Growlers or naval Rafale.

Growler is awesome

 

[kakathiya]

Sir, I get your point now.
Actually that is what the case is, steam is only to drive a turbo genretaor set and generate electricity. The electrical output is then used for driving a propeller through a motor and gearbox-clutch arrangement.
View attachment 219547
The dark green line shows flow of electricity from generator end towards propulsion motor. As can be seen this power output (from TG) is also used to drive auxiliaries such as Primary Coolant pump for Reactor (shown as MCP), Condensate pump, Battery chargers and in the case being discussed EMAL requirements too.
The advantage here is that it is far easier to control power flow while dealing with electricity than with steam. Example of this would be if you wish to control speed of ship, you need to reduce propeller rpm. Now if steam was used in this case a governor valve is required which means loss of heat enthalpy by expansion losses. On the other hand if electrical motor is used, all you need is to have an IGBT based drive for motor driving propeller which can alter both frequency and voltage to control speed and torque developed by propulsion motor based on actual requirements.
Also since there are little moving parts, there is very little mechanical damage (by means of wear and tear and corrosion damage in sea atmosphere). Also lower maintenance as most drive parts are static (lower lubrication requirements). In all a very friendly system for people manning the system.

India has the the ability and eperience in making naval reactors, if india can make much smaller 80 megawatt reactor for arihanth it will be no problem for 200 megawatt reactors, and who will supply the fuel for this reactor, Russia supplies fuel for the akula class subs and also for many reactors will the Americans supply the same, they will not, India produces nuclear grade fuel but its not enough, India needs more fuel for our civilian and defense reactors

But when France is not able to maintain it's AC how do you expect that India will operationalize all four at a time?

you can wait and see for yourself, no need to talk, the cost of maintaining an aircraft for France differs from India the wages are lower than France and maintenance is cheaper in India

 

[anonymus]

what all are talking is that India may buy F35 for our future AC, as far as i know India is not going to buy any F35's because of the unreliability on Americas part, Americans have the habit of blackmailing whenever their interest matters and they have done it often, even with their allies, india has bought transport aircraft's only because it has more civilian components and in case of emergency our our airport service depots can manage them, in the govt circles there is lot of undercurrents and mistrust among babus and policy makers in India, what if america threatens with sanctions for some reason when we are in middle of war with their old ally Pakistan and deny spares to the planes which will ground all the planes, the Americans have done this before to India, even though the planes are very good they cannot fly without maintenance, and without maintenance F35's are like white elephants, and the maintenance depends on the spares provided by the manufacturer.

As I have stated before too, we should lose this Paranoia of USA's sanction in purchasing hardware which is China centric.

USA ,in my opinion, is much more reliable than Russia when dealing with extremely advanced technology we would be using primarily against China. Russia may sell us Amur Submarines today, and may offer those same Submarines tomorrow to China, allowing China to get info about their acoustic signature and operational parameters. This possibility does not exist in case of US hardware.

 

[$@rJen]

Cost.

With F-35's , total cost of Aircraft carrier with its airwing would touch $30 Billion.

Rafale and F-35c almost costs the same... considering F-18 or Rafale naval version for India's next Gen Carrier would be foolish option... 5th Gen fighter like f35c is the best option and IN would require less than 2sqd so it's not going to cost very much.. but yes flying them are very expensive

 

[kakathiya]

F 35 is the best 5th gen fighter aircraft that is available out there to buy.

India needs both quality and quantity to defend itself in worse case scenarios. India is fast a becoming Naval power. The deal will address all the issues considering the experience of India with USA in the past.

Some of the US companies are planning to source defence components from India this includes Lockheed Maritin I guess. Very soon it is expected that US defence companies will establish manufacturing bases here in India.

Mean while India's AMCA program will pick up the pace and will eventually replace Migs, Rafales and what ever aircraft that are being inducted in medium role.

nothing like this is going to happen in another 25 years, and India will rely on Russian and European fighter planes for the time being, that's why Indian govt doesn't want any strategic strike planes for its air force or navy which are bought from america, only supportive apparatus like transport and communication for the time being if the good will extends to another 25 years we may buy american fighters, this is what top naval officers talk about.

 

[deckingraj]

Nuclear propelled carriers are useless without supporting doctrines. They are large sitting ducks with reactors open to missile strikes. The US solved it by declaring that any attack on a US Carrier will result in an immediate nuclear retaliation. With India's No First Strike policy, these strategic assets will not get any such safety checks.

Indian doctrine says any nuclear attack on its land or interests will get massive retaliation...so not sure what is the issue here??

 

[kakathiya]

As I have stated before too, we should lose this Paranoia of USA's sanction in purchasing hardware which is China centric.

USA ,in my opinion, is much more reliable than Russia when dealing with extremely advanced technology we would be using primarily against China. Russia may sell us Amur Submarines today, and may offer those same Submarines tomorrow to China, allowing China to get info about their acoustic signature and operational parameters. This possibility does not exist in case of US hardware.

you are false sir, only the insiders will know the reliability of Americans, and Indian policy makers don't trust them, because if something happens, all the others will say " see i warned you" and then you will loose the strategic depth between Russia and then if america dumps you, india will be in a situation like in the movie, "life of pi" but what if the tiger turns out to be maneater

 

[Srinivas]

nothing like this is going to happen in another 25 years, and India will rely on Russian and European fighter planes for the time being, that's why Indian govt doesn't want any strategic strike planes for its air force or navy which are bought from america, only supportive apparatus like transport and communication for the time being if the good will extends to another 25 years we may buy american fighters, this is what top naval officers talk about.

The reason why India went with Rafale is because non of the aircraft that are there in MMRCA met the IAF requirements except Rafale.

Typhoon is a good fighter but still under development at that time.

Had US pitched F 35 in MMRCA, IAF would have gone for that. F 35 which is jointly developed fighter jet which has less restrictions compared to US manufactured fighter jets.

India needs good 5th gen tech so that it can develop its own AMCA.

 

[kaku1]

Nuclear propelled carriers are useless without supporting doctrines. They are large sitting ducks with reactors open to missile strikes. The US solved it by declaring that any attack on a US Carrier will result in an immediate nuclear retaliation. With India's No First Strike policy, these strategic assets will not get any such safety checks.

So, you think indian deploy its carrier without any battle group?

 

[Srinivas]

Exactly !

On one side China is rising with new tech development and India needs to keep up with its threats.

We need the best tech out there and we also need to develop the best products that will make India self reliable and make enemies think twice if they want to mess with us.

We need to pack a big punch for sure in this scenario.

As I have stated before too, we should lose this Paranoia of USA's sanction in purchasing hardware which is China centric.

USA ,in my opinion, is much more reliable than Russia when dealing with extremely advanced technology we would be using primarily against China. Russia may sell us Amur Submarines today, and may offer those same Submarines tomorrow to China, allowing China to get info about their acoustic signature and operational parameters. This possibility does not exist in case of US hardware.

 

[kaku1]

Aircraft carrier is India's territory so any attack on AC is an attack on India.

Lol, even the attack on patrol boat in ICG, means attack on India.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

So, you think indian deploy its carrier without any battle group?

Battle Groups aren't always gonna give you a 100% proection. In war with China, for instance, things can get really ugly really fast.