India Outlines New Carrier Ambitions

[Skull and Bones]

Unfortunately none of the main systems considered will be made in or by India。

It will take India at least 30 years to start making the major building blocks of a modern CV on its own hook。

Indians don't play casino, so there's no use of Casino Vessels in India

 

[Viva India]

Cost.

With F-35's , total cost of Aircraft carrier with its airwing would touch $30 Billion.




I think the Reactor design would be different. Since Reactor has to generate electricity for EMALS, why install a secondary steam propulsion system. I think propulsion too would be electricity driven.

Then we should opt for RAFALE with more Indian content and Screw F 35 our indigenous 5th Gen AMCA.

Btw by 2022 Our defence Budget will be $100 billion,can't we afford F 35 ?

 

[anonymus]

Then we should opt for RAFALE with more Indian content and Screw F 35 our indigenous 5th Gen AMCA.

Btw by 2022 Our defence Budget will be $100 billion,can't we afford F 35 ?

If US is ready to supply a novel tech like EMALS to India, it would certainly come bunched up with other US Hardware, notably E-2D Hawkeye, and F teen series. We would also need USA's consultancy for increasing power output of reactors.

Apart from that , in absence of technology transfer, Rafael for AC does not bring anything added benefits. F-18SH is cheaper, and since carrier variant is pretty different from land variant, there won't be much benefits that would accrue due to platform similarity.

AMCA would not be ready before IAC-II's induction.

 

[anant_s]

Since Reactor has to generate electricity for EMALS, why install a secondary steam propulsion system.

Reactor cannot generate electricity directly, you require a secondary Turbo-generator system. Essentially a Pressurized Water Reactor, generates heat which generates steam through a steam generator and then the closed loop cycle of a TG system generates electricity.
This is then used to drive the Ship propeller and also used for powering EMALS (essentially a linear motor).

why install a secondary steam propulsion system.

Secondary cycle word has been used to describe the Turbo Generator cycle and not Steam Catapult.

I think propulsion too would be electricity driven.

Absolutely!

 

[anonymus]

Reactor cannot generate electricity directly, you require a secondary Turbo-generator system. Essentially a Pressurized Water Reactor, generates heat which generates steam through a steam generator and then the closed loop cycle of a TG system generates electricity.
This is then used to drive the Ship propeller and also used for powering EMALS (essentially a linear motor).
View attachment 219527


Secondary cycle word has been used to describe the Turbo Generator cycle and not Steam Catapult.


Absolutely!

I know that a Nuclear reactor generate steam which in turn runa Turbine which could be used to run a Dynamo, or could be used directly for propulsion.

My point was that since we would already be using big *** Turbine and Dynamo to generate electricity for EMALS, why bother with extra piping and fitting that would be needed for Steam propulsion. We could simply convert all of output into electricity and use it run motors for propulsion.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

The Indian Navy will present a report on the configuration options for the second indigenous Indian Aircraft Carrier (IAC-2) to the Ministry of Defense next month. At a recent seminar on the country’s naval aviation, it became clear that the vessel will likely be in the 65,000 ton class.

The Indian Navy will present a report on the configuration options for the second indigenous Indian Aircraft Carrier (IAC-2) to the Ministry of Defense next month. At a recent seminar on the country’s naval aviation, it became clear that the vessel will likely be in the 65,000 ton class. It could be equipped with American aircraft – or a combination that might include the naval version of the French Rafale fighter. “The fighters must be transformational. We must decide on the aircraft first, and this choice must determine the design of the carrier and its deck,” said an official.

“We must plan for the future blue water navy that will be dependent on air power,” said former Chief of Naval Staff Arun Prakash. “A focus is required…new hardware is important (or) it will be a double jeopardy…we cannot remain hostage to an unreliable source of supply.” India’s navy now has two ski-jump carriers – the INS Vikramaditya which is a former Russian ship, and the INS Vikrant, which is the first indigenous carrier (IAC-1) and now in an advanced stage of construction. Both are equipped with Russian aircraft: Mig-29K combat jets and Kamov Ka-31 AEW helicopters.

The IAC-2 report will describe type, tonnage, propulsion and aircraft options, Chief of Navy Robin K Dhowan said. The options will include the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS), that recently was recently offered by the US to India, as an alternative to a steam catapult system. Made by General Atomics, EMALS was specified as one of six ‘Pathfinder Projects’ for coproduction and co-development, in the recent U.S.-India Defense Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI).

Depending on the cost, India could consider acquiring F-18s or the F-35B for IAC-2, Ashley Tellis, senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said recently. With Indian having recently confirmed that the air force will acquire at least 36 Dassault Rafales, the carrier version of the French jet may come into consideration. The French Navy's flagship aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle has just completed an exercise with the Indian navy off the coast of Goa. Last month, Indian navy officials also went aboard the USS Charles Vinson off the coast of Cochin, to “ask questions about the carrier,” US Ambassador to India Richard Verma who accompanied them, told AIN.

Meanwhile, the stage may finally be set for the Indian Navy to acquire a squadron of four Northrop Grumman E-2D Hawkeye AEW&C aircraft. The navy uses Kamov KA-31 for its AEW missions, but requires aircraft with a longer range and endurance. An RFI was issued as long ago as 2010, and Northrop Grumman has submitted a proposal for a shore-based version of the E-2D. Once the IAC-2 comes into operation, the aircraft could be modified for carrier operations in just one week, a US official told AIN. But retired Vice Admiral A.K. Singh suggested that an AEW version of the V-22 Osprey might be the answer. “The tried and tested Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route could be considered for an early realization of the Navy’s requirements,” said Ankur Gupta, Manager, Ernst &Young India to AIN.

India's Defence Goal by Nayeem Sheikh

 

[OrionHunter]

Unfortunately none of the main systems considered will be made in or by India。

It will take India at least 30 years to start making the major building blocks of a modern CV on its own hook。

How does it matter whether the system is indigenous or not as long as we can make mincemeat of the enemy?

By the way, how many years would it take to make your own QUALITY engines? Probably not until 2050.

 

[Archie]

Rafale will be a better choice,
given the commonality with IAF

Given the choice,
It will be cheaper to maintain a fleet of 100+ Rafale F3 and Rafale M
Rather than maintaing a fleet of 60 Rafale F3 and 45 F35C

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

Will it be kept as reserve and operational ready or will be operated normally? I don't think India actually need more two AC operating at a time. Won't it be costly enough to maintain?

 

[kakathiya]

Will it be kept as reserve and operational ready or will be operated normally? I don't think India actually need more two AC operating at a time. Won't it be costly enough to maintain?

India has the capacity to maintain these aircraft carriers and it it will be total four AC's one for west, one for east, one for south and one for the Andaman islands, you need not worry we have the will and money

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

India has the capacity to maintain these aircraft carriers and it it will be total four AC's one for west, one for east, one for south and one for the Andaman islands, you need not worry we have the will and money

But when France is not able to maintain it's AC how do you expect that India will operationalize all four at a time?

 

[anant_s]

We could simply convert all of output into electricity and use it run motors for propulsion.

Sir, I get your point now.
Actually that is what the case is, steam is only to drive a turbo genretaor set and generate electricity. The electrical output is then used for driving a propeller through a motor and gearbox-clutch arrangement.

The dark green line shows flow of electricity from generator end towards propulsion motor. As can be seen this power output (from TG) is also used to drive auxiliaries such as Primary Coolant pump for Reactor (shown as MCP), Condensate pump, Battery chargers and in the case being discussed EMAL requirements too.
The advantage here is that it is far easier to control power flow while dealing with electricity than with steam. Example of this would be if you wish to control speed of ship, you need to reduce propeller rpm. Now if steam was used in this case a governor valve is required which means loss of heat enthalpy by expansion losses. On the other hand if electrical motor is used, all you need is to have an IGBT based drive for motor driving propeller which can alter both frequency and voltage to control speed and torque developed by propulsion motor based on actual requirements.
Also since there are little moving parts, there is very little mechanical damage (by means of wear and tear and corrosion damage in sea atmosphere). Also lower maintenance as most drive parts are static (lower lubrication requirements). In all a very friendly system for people manning the system.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Don't underestimate the V22 and what it can do vs a Hawkeye

 

[kakathiya]

We should think of logistic nightmares since we are going for many types of aircraft.

F35 is a good option considering this is the latest 5th gen fighter aircraft.

We should also standardize our aircraft carrier design so that we can build more of them with out much of the design change.

We should go for more tonnage.

what all are talking is that India may buy F35 for our future AC, as far as i know India is not going to buy any F35's because of the unreliability on Americas part, Americans have the habit of blackmailing whenever their interest matters and they have done it often, even with their allies, india has bought transport aircraft's only because it has more civilian components and in case of emergency our our airport service depots can manage them, in the govt circles there is lot of undercurrents and mistrust among babus and policy makers in India, what if america threatens with sanctions for some reason when we are in middle of war with their old ally Pakistan and deny spares to the planes which will ground all the planes, the Americans have done this before to India, even though the planes are very good they cannot fly without maintenance, and without maintenance F35's are like white elephants, and the maintenance depends on the spares provided by the manufacturer.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Nuclear propelled carriers are useless without supporting doctrines. They are large sitting ducks with reactors open to missile strikes. The US solved it by declaring that any attack on a US Carrier will result in an immediate nuclear retaliation. With India's No First Strike policy, these strategic assets will not get any such safety checks.