India Outlines New Carrier Ambitions

[Foo_Fighter]

Carrier tactics is a whole different game. Attacking a carrier using an IRBM with a conventional or even nuclear warhead (as the soviets would have done to US carriers) is very conventional thinking. CBG can't stop such an attack.

But your earlier point was regarding a nuclear retaliation... and India will retaliate with Nuclear if deemed necessary if foreign forces attack any Indian military installation.

 

[anonymus]

I mean the on board fuel tanks. One is for the planes and one is to run the carrier..and of course all the bombs.
I think a small reactor would be the least of your worries.

Diesel/Kerosene/Fuel oil does not catch fire easily. They have very high ignition temperature, and does not burn easily.

Every Fuel is not Gasoline.

Nuclear propelled carriers are useless without supporting doctrines. They are large sitting ducks with reactors open to missile strikes. The US solved it by declaring that any attack on a US Carrier will result in an immediate nuclear retaliation. With India's No First Strike policy, these strategic assets will not get any such safety checks.

There is no such stated policy.

There is very little chance that sinking of a carrier by conventional means would ever start a Nuclear war.

Carrier tactics is a whole different game. Attacking a carrier using an IRBM with a conventional or even nuclear warhead (as the soviets would have done to US carriers) is very conventional thinking. CBG can't stop such an attack.

An IRBM cannot attack a carrier, and unless it is carrying a Nuclear warhead, it cannot sink a carrier, even if there is a lucky hit.

Why people cannot understand a basic Physics fact that Velocity is inversely proportional to maneuverability, and due to this reason, IRBM as anti carrier weapon would not be feasible.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

But your earlier point was regarding a nuclear retaliation... and India will retaliate with Nuclear if deemed necessary if foreign forces attack any Indian military installation.

No, the doctrine is clear- no nuclear retaliation unless a nuclear weapon is used on us first.

 

[$@rJen]

Will need too much money. If economy grows >7% for next 6-7 years, then only can we hope for such a carrier.

Armed forces have much more different pressing needs which are yet to be cleared because of money.

I don't know why guys are so much worried about the costs!!! IN is not going to pay the cash in a One Go!! Construction will atleast take 5 years and more paying little by little is not a big problem..

 

[#hydra#]

Diesel/Kerosene/Fuel oil does not catch fire easily. They have very high ignition temperature, and does not burn easily.

Every Fuel is not Gasoline.





There is no such stated policy.

There is very little chance that sinking of a carrier by conventional means would ever start a Nuclear war.





An IRBM cannot attack a carrier, and unless it is carrying a Nuclear warhead, it cannot sink a carrier, even if there is a lucky hit.

Why people cannot understand a basic Physics fact that Velocity is inversely proportional to maneuverability, and due to this reason, IRBM as anti carrier weapon would not be feasible.

A direct hit by a nuclear tiped missile on aircraft carrier will make the ship simply evaporate in a matter of seconds,a nuclear detonation 100 to 200 m( CEP of modern ballistic missile is less than 100m) in vicinity of ship will kill all living things inside that ship.if u want proof you can check the YouTube video of famous " bikini nuclear test.

 

[$@rJen]

Vertical take off aircrafts will benefit A&N in case of run way destroyed by missile strike . F35B is what we should get at least 60 of them . 40 for IAC-2 and 20,for AN

if that the case then we should onluy induct Vertical take off aircrafts for both IAF and IN!!!!

F-35b will have to sacrifice the load if taking off vertically.. like i said MKIs flying from Chennai can cover Entire A&N island chain so as of now we don't need to base any fighters there. if we're worried about Chinese Invading A&N then IN should form a Marine Corps.

 

[ZooZoo]

N-LCA on IAC-II is ging to be a Big Joke.... and you're forgetting US... they are not just going to give you EMALS and shake your hand.. you want EMALS then take F-35 along with it..

There's no choice for IN to opt planes for IAC-II if IN chooses to go with EMALS,. F-35C it is

Ok then no EMALS, steam catapult will do the same Job.. I don think IN will go with such trapping deal.. However There is only one 5th Gen Naval based fighter available in world. so it may be possible IN will go for F35...


FGFA for Navy will be heavy (if it is made), so unless AMCA is realized F35 is sole choice...

 

[$@rJen]

Ok then no EMALS, steam catapult will do the same Job.. I don think IN will go with such trapping deal.. However There is only one 5th Gen Naval based fighter available in world. so it may be possible IN will go for F35...


FGFA for Navy will be heavy (if it is made), so unless AMCA is realized F35 is sole choice...

Catapults can do that jobs too but EMALS do the same job in a better way and faster.... and EMALS is future tech, so best thing to do is to choose EMALS. Yes you're right and some years back IN showed interests in F35

AMCA is dead since we're not buying Rafale with ToT... without any other country co developing with india AMCA will never see the light

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

if that the case then we should onluy induct Vertical take off aircrafts for both IAF and IN!!!!

F-35b will have to sacrifice the load if taking off vertically.. like i said MKIs flying from Chennai can cover Entire A&N island chain so as of now we don't need to base any fighters there. if we're worried about Chinese Invading A&N then IN should form a Marine Corps.

MKI as its own advantage but what what am proposing is to have F35 B in INs inventory like future LPD and in AN where runways will be the priority targets for Chinese missiles. Its a different case that we will do the same but with F35B we will have something called deterrent . As assured distraction in case of any attempt to take out the runway . Am just saying ! F35B specifically made for short take off and vertical landing .

if that the case then we should onluy induct Vertical take off aircrafts for both IAF and IN!!!!

F-35b will have to sacrifice the load if taking off vertically.. like i said MKIs flying from Chennai can cover Entire A&N island chain so as of now we don't need to base any fighters there. if we're worried about Chinese Invading A&N then IN should form a Marine Corps.

AN may be our territory but still its too far from our mainland .In any conflict airstrips are the priority targets . How can one takeoff MKI without a runway ? As I said once Chinese launched missiles strikes we will have to dispatch Sukois from our mainland or A/C . Mean while I support your claim for F35C better for carrier operation than B series . But my point is totally different . F35Bs with short take off and vertical landing will act as an deterrent ! Even though runways are destroyed we will have squadrons of 5th gen jets marching towards Chinese mainland especially for resonance imaging, Air defense role and bombing missions (to take out air defense for our sukois to role in) Being a stealth fighter Chinese SAM systems will have tuff time to counter our strike . Like our missiles will rain down on their installations , AN Naval fleet starts their offence with brahmos ,nirbay etc , Our Naval air wing ( A/C) can do some serious damage . But first in the lime for any kind of offense should be lead by Andaman Air wing . To secure the area first. F35B is my candidate for IAC 2 as well. But for 4 LPD and Andaman Tri command . Followed by Tejas MK2 + F35 C + Mig 29k from carriers .

 

[kakathiya]

Funds for F-35 would come from Navy's CAPEX, while for FGFA from Airforce's CAPEX. I don't think choosing F-35 for Navy would undermine FGFA.

Anyway Carrier Launcged and Ground Launched Aircraft are pretty different. Barring few advantages of interchangable spares, there is not much benefit that would accrue due to commonality in platform.



It has everything to do with Catapult.

F-35B does not require Catapult system at all. Why would IN waste money on EMALS and a New carrier, if it has to fly F-35B from it. India could fly F-35B from existing carriers, or even if it goes for new carrier, that carrier would cost 3-6 Billion dollar, depending on displacement. A nuclear powered CATOBAR carier would cost around $10-12 Billion.

Also F-35 is less capable than F-35C. F-35B has 2/3 the range, and 5/6 the payload of F-35C.

F-35B at max G-rating of 7 is less maneuverable than F-35C at 7.5 .

While F-35B could carry a two 1000 Pound JDAM in main weapon bay apart from two Aim-120C in side weapon bay, F-35C could carry two 2000 Pound JDAM in main weapon bay apart from Aim120C in side weapon bay. This limits offensive capability of F-35B as it would have limited anti-ship capability, compared to F-35C.





This is a rendition of recycled diatribe that ignorant Indian media feed to Indian public.

Russia ,by selling us weapons, is not doing charity on us. We are paying customers. And the fact that Russia is willing to sell everything to China, makes it an unreliable supplier in high tech category. Also since out Navy in future would primarily be China oriented, there is not much to fear about US embargo on Navy.

Apart from that Mig 29K's and LCA would never ever be capable enough for 2025+ rime period. Mig has maxed out its development potential and LCA was never designed to take on J-XX series of Aircrafts.

FYI, Patton tanks were not high tech.

by your logic america also does not do it for charity, India is also a customer for it, no money they will swat you like a fly, Russia gave India weapons when India did not had food to eat, they gave weapons in exchange for Indian rupees, no country will trade their goods in their local currency which is under valued, and they know how to squeeze you through the hole, Indians have the experience before how they took you for a ride, until 1965 america was the largest supplier of India and then what happened, they suddenly started supporting Pakistan and sent 7th fleet to block India and threaten India only at that time Russia helped India. or else you would have faced a utter defeat in the hands of Pakistan, the change in the attitude of america is a recent phenomenon, now they see India as a counter weight to china, they have their own strategic interests, and any time they can dump you, India should have good relations with the Americans and use the present situation for the good of our country, and India should stop being just a customer and start producing its own stuff, now its just started, it will take a decade or more to mature. even if our goods are some what low tech they are ours, we have the chance to improve it. no technology dropped directly from heaven.

Patton tanks were 10 times high tech than our T35s and our British era tanks even then we could pound them
and what about Abrams in the middle east
the Israeli hi-tech tanks where hounded by the Egyptian use and run suitcase rockets.

even during indo pak war, our small planes fought the high tech **** planes in those times by dog fighting and shot them down .

 

[$@rJen]

MKI as its own advantage but what what am proposing is to have F35 B in INs inventory like future LPD and in AN where runways will be the priority targets for Chinese missiles. Its a different case that we will do the same but with F35B we will have something called deterrent . As assured distraction in case of any attempt to take out the runway . Am just saying ! F35B specifically made for short take off and vertical landing .

There's a possibility for F-35B for LHD in future... and considering IN is going to use A&N in a full swing these fighters might be based along with LHDs in A&N but just for the base in A&N is not required.. and we don't need to worry about Chinese bombing Run ways in A&N because its highly unlikely... Brahmos with the rang of 300km their ships are not going to come anywhere near.. and A&N are going to be well equipped with SAMs... and BMD in future.

 

[Foo_Fighter]

No, the doctrine is clear- no nuclear retaliation unless a nuclear weapon is used on us first.

Can you prove it?

 

[ayesha.a]

A direct hit by a nuclear tiped missile on aircraft carrier will make the ship simply evaporate in a matter of seconds,a nuclear detonation 100 to 200 m( CEP of modern ballistic missile is less than 100m) in vicinity of ship will kill all living things inside that ship.if u want proof you can check the YouTube video of famous " bikini nuclear test.

India has made it clear that any nuclear attack against India or Indian forces anywhere would invite an assured, massive and disproportionate retaliation. Sinking a carrier is not worth it, if the consequence is annihilation - might as well nuke India itself, rather than a ship.

http://fas.org/nuke/guide/india/doctrine/990817-indnucld.htm

(b) any nuclear attack on India and its forces shall result in punitive retaliation with nuclear weapons to inflict damage unacceptable to the aggressor.

Can you prove it?

Strike by even a midget nuke will invite massive response, India warns Pak - The Times of India

Articulating Indian nuclear policy in this regard for the first time, Shyam Saran, convener of the National Security Advisory Board, said, "India will not be the first to use nuclear weapons, but if it is attacked with such weapons, it would engage in nuclear retaliation which will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage on its adversary. The label on a nuclear weapon used for attacking India, strategic or tactical, is irrelevant from the Indian perspective." This is significant, because Saran was placing on record India's official nuclear posture with the full concurrence of the highest levels of nuclear policymakers in New Delhi.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

There's a possibility for F-35B for LHD in future... and considering IN is going to use A&N in a full swing these fighters might be based along with LHDs in A&N but just for the base in A&N is not required.. and we don't need to worry about Chinese bombing Run ways in A&N because its highly unlikely... Brahmos with the rang of 300km their ships are not going to come anywhere near.. and A&N are going to be well equipped with SAMs... and BMD in future.

But missile power of Chinese are over whelming than us. Our SAM systems will be over loaded which will parlays them. So there is no system in the world with 100% kill ratio. We will do the same that's different story . Wise move will be to have Sukois along with F35 B at AN itself . We need to make sure of utilizing 100s small islands and converting them into permanent aircraft carries with SAMs . While Navy vessels can take care of the rest .

 

[saurav]

I don't know why guys are so much worried about the costs!!! IN is not going to pay the cash in a One Go!! Construction will atleast take 5 years and more paying little by little is not a big problem..

A 65K N-carrier with its air arm and support ships will cost >10 Bill. This is sizable money for any navy. And even spending this much will have its own set of restrictions since aircraft launching system and Air arm will be amrikan. I don't think its wise to spend so much when submarines are pathetically low in number.