India nuclear plant leaks!!

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Xeric you don't understand what i am saying may be my poor English..Let me try once again..I am saying that it need more quantity for contaminating a natural water resources than a purifier in a small canteen ..It will be easy for a person to carry small quantity enough to contaminate a water in a small canteen because security personal will not notice such a small quantity carrying with him but is it the case if he carries a large quantity??

agha, maybe you didn't understand his general point.

Today a small amount by one or a few disaffected employees. But what about the next day?


the fact that these 55 workers were poisoned by their own colleagues raises alarm. Nuclear facilities --whether used for weapons or for civilian energy -- are sensitive sites where security must never be compromised.


strange things are going on nowdays.....in india this happens. In Washington DC, 2 un-invited guests are able to enter the fine reception area of White House and exchange handshake and pleasantries with U.S. President Barak Hussein Obama. They could have been terrorists, yet they slipped past Secret Service


what's going on?

 

[Chanakyaa]

agha, maybe you didn't understand his general point.

Today a small amount by one or a few disaffected employees. But what about the next day?


the fact that these 55 workers were poisoned by their own colleagues raises alarm. Nuclear facilities --whether used for weapons or for civilian energy -- are sensitive sites where security must never be compromised.


strange things are going on nowdays.....in india this happens. In Washington DC, 2 un-invited guests are able to enter the fine reception area of White House and exchange handshake and pleasantries with U.S. President Barak Hussein Obama. They could have been terrorists, yet they slipped past Secret Service


what's going on?

This is Very True, and i hope they will certainly Check such incidents in future.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

off-topic, and i apologize. But at least the madam was good looking and seemingly harmless

She gave Mr. President the affectionate double-handed hand-shake





but i guess we can call this one of the biggest security breaches in U.S. history!

 

[Bushy]

Must be cheap Indian grass that you smoke on the weekend, try something better.

Yes, I bought it from a Sufi outside Jama Masjid in Delhi. And I sincerely thank you for showing the most precious of your counter-arguments! Keep it up.

26/11 took place despite all the security.
Breach of security at a nuclear site happened despite all the security.

If a surprise attack on civilians, sponsored by a terrorist organization (if it is not state of Pakistan itself), is the sign of weakness and fragility, then I suppose after 9/11 USA must be the most unsafe place in the world. Or Japan, after the gas leak tragedy. Or Russia after the school siege. Or England after the Tube bombings. Sorry mate, but your argument holds no water.

Your million men army has to defend a far greater border but the 700,000 strong PA has to defend a relatively small border. 30,000 soldiers were enought to accomplish our mission in SWA and a much smaller force was used in Swat.

No. Bangladesh will never attack us (border of which is protected by the BSF - 250,000 troops), and with Myanmar, we have trade routes there (Supervised by the BSF too). That leaves us with two other countries. The Pakistanis and the Chinese (only in Leh and Arunanchal Pradesh, rest are protected by the Himalayas). Seems like though India has twice as large an army as yours, we have to protect almost as long (if not smaller) a border as yours (Afghanistan - Hostile, India - Hostile). Again, flaws in your argument are out in the open.

Your nuclear weapons must by toys therefore you think that anyone can use them. Our a very complicated platforms with very heavy security so falling in Taliban hands is abosultely out of the question.

If India's nukes were toys, then you should know India has them since 1974. When was the last time they fell into rogue hands... hmmm never! As for Pakistan's nukes, had them for what... like 10 years now? And already Pakistan had to buy $100 million worth of security apparatus out of the fear of Taliban taking them. (Hope you haven't forgotten the bombing of nuke technicians carrying bus).

And to top it all, these overused facts: Pakistan has been known to have stolen, and distributed the nuclear technology and apparatus to all the volatile countries, and now has a menace like Taliban already looking for nukes.
On the other hand India has an impeccable record of nuke (and nuclear tech) safeguards. And no terrorist organization in India ever claimed to go for them.

Conclusion: Even a leak in India is a mere small mishap, whereas, even a rumor in Pakistan can attract international sanctions.

Hope you get the picture.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yes, I bought it from a Sufi outside Jama Masjid in Delhi. And I sincerely thank you for showing the most precious of your counter-arguments! Keep it up.



If a surprise attack on civilians, sponsored by a terrorist organization (if it is not state of Pakistan itself), is the sign of weakness and fragility, then I suppose after 9/11 USA must be the most unsafe place in the world. Or Japan, after the gas leak tragedy. Or Russia after the school siege. Or England after the Tube bombings. Sorry mate, but your argument holds no water.



No. Bangladesh will never attack us (border of which is protected by the BSF - 250,000 troops), and with Myanmar, we have trade routes there (Supervised by the BSF too). That leaves us with two other countries. The Pakistanis and the Chinese (only in Leh and Arunanchal Pradesh, rest are protected by the Himalayas). Seems like though India has twice as large an army as yours, we have to protect almost as long (if not smaller) a border as yours (Afghanistan - Hostile, India - Hostile). Again, flaws in your argument are out in the open.



If India's nukes were toys, then you should know India has them since 1974. When was the last time they fell into rogue hands... hmmm never! As for Pakistan's nukes, had them for what... like 10 years now? And already Pakistan had to buy $100 million worth of security apparatus out of the fear of Taliban taking them. (Hope you haven't forgotten the bombing of nuke technicians carrying bus).

And to top it all, these overused facts: Pakistan has been known to have stolen, and distributed the nuclear technology and apparatus to all the volatile countries, and now has a menace like Taliban already looking for nukes.
On the other hand India has an impeccable record of nuke (and nuclear tech) safeguards. And no terrorist organization in India ever claimed to go for them.

Conclusion: Even a leak in India is a mere small mishap, whereas, even a rumor in Pakistan can attract international sanctions.

Hope you get the picture.

those very same sanctions had no effect on our nuclear program, and only kept us emboldened until youm e takbir.

Since when are Iran, North Korea or Libya volatile countries? They may be run by strange leaders, but the countries are reasonably secure. The nuclear proliferation incident is long over. It was nothing more than a business transaction, though I personally think those involved should have used better judgement in the interests of Pakistan.

Menace like taleban do not have the know how or the knowledge of nuclear physics, and I highly doubt that they have neither the firepower to overtake our facilities (which are spread out throughout the country) nor the know-how of gaining access/operating/assembling/de-coding the different components required to make a nuclear armed device ready to be used.

to even broach the subject is ridiculous. U.S. offered $100m in assistance for nuclear safe-guarding, we didn't ask or pay for it. But since it was offered, we accepted and further measures were taken under Gen (retd.) Musharraf administration to make the facilities further foolproof.

Our measures go beyond infrastructural means. We also keep a close account of the employees who are working in the facilities as well. It's better to be extra careful and minimize risk; nuclear installations are very sensitive sites.

 

[Iggy]

agha, maybe you didn't understand his general point.

Today a small amount by one or a few disaffected employees. But what about the next day?


the fact that these 55 workers were poisoned by their own colleagues raises alarm. Nuclear facilities --whether used for weapons or for civilian energy -- are sensitive sites where security must never be compromised.


strange things are going on nowdays.....in india this happens. In Washington DC, 2 un-invited guests are able to enter the fine reception area of White House and exchange handshake and pleasantries with U.S. President Barak Hussein Obama. They could have been terrorists, yet they slipped past Secret Service


what's going on?

I am also agreeing with stealing even if it is a small amount of radio active product is a serious concern but from the post Xinix posted in some previous post about the security don't you think its unlikely to smuggle a large quantity from a nuclear plant??

 

[Bushy]

Since when are Iran, North Korea or Libya volatile countries? They may be run by strange leaders, but the countries are reasonably secure. The nuclear proliferation incident is long over. It was nothing more than a business transaction, though I personally think those involved should have used better judgement in the interests of Pakistan.

Those strange leaders and their 'every other day' hyper comments are enough for me. As for business transactions, it shows the callousness of Pakistan's outlook.

Menace like taleban do not have the know how or the knowledge of nuclear physics, and I highly doubt that they have neither the firepower to overtake our facilities (which are spread out throughout the country) nor the know-how of gaining access/operating/assembling/de-coding the different components required to make a nuclear armed device ready to be used.

To know how to make nuclear bombs, all you need are books on physics. However, those who do read them, (students, professors, physicists) cannot make the bomb simply because they cannot have the money and the equipments.

to even broach the subject is ridiculous. U.S. offered $100m in assistance for nuclear safe-guarding, we didn't ask or pay for it. But since it was offered, we accepted and further measures were taken under Gen (retd.) Musharraf administration to make the facilities further foolproof.

If you do believe what you have written about this annual secret aid of $100 million USD, then you need to read this. Caution: Might change your perspective!

Securing Pakistan?s Nukes: Partners, Not Adversaries

(If you are an avid reader, I request you to check out the links provided there for the sake of proving its authenticity)

Our measures go beyond infrastructural means. We also keep a close account of the employees who are working in the facilities as well. It's better to be extra careful and minimize risk; nuclear installations are very sensitive sites.

I very much agree with you there. Because everyone knows what Pakistan would invite by it being lax on the subject of nukes, I am sure it has undertaken all kinds of security measures that it could, howsoever sufficient/insufficient they are.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Those strange leaders and their 'every other day' hyper comments are enough for me. As for business transactions, it shows the callousness of Pakistan's outlook.

capitalists since 1947.

Like i said, it was horrible judgement on the part of those involved. But the situation was long ago resolved. Had nothing to do with nuclear security, or any type of security breach.

If you do believe what you have written about this annual secret aid of $100 million USD, then you need to read this. Caution: Might change your perspective!

I don't know about the credibility of "Center for American Progress" is --but I did read this report already.

I still don't see what your point is? They gave us equipment and a few things were discussed. Doesnt compromise our nuclear installations or capabilities.

everyone knows what Pakistan would invite by it being lax on the subject of nukes, I am sure it has undertaken all kinds of security measures that it could, howsoever sufficient/insufficient they are.

U.S. could not afford to irritate or annoy Pakistan in 1980s when we helped them defeat the soviets.

U.S. can not afford to irritate or annoy Pakistan now, while they are embroiled in a very grim and difficult predicament in Afghanistan.


as i mentioned earlier, top U.S. officials aknowledged that our nukes and facilities are safe. Our Armed Services can fully meet todays requirements and security challenges; thus far there have been no untoward incidents with regards to the security of our strategic assets. And I trust it will remain this way.

Our record is clean, while those of others (Russia, U.S. india and some other countries) still have question marks.

Even if the anti-Pakistan terrorism intensified (which Inshallah, it wont), no outside country can handle or determine what we have or dont have/////what we should have and should not have.

We are a sovereign country, and have the means to defend every millimeter of it.










p.s. was there any followup over case of the senior indian nuclear scientist (Loknath Mahalingam) -- who was found dead in Kali river under "mysterious circumstances" last July?


leads? arrests? any information he could have given out before being killed? According to indian and foreign media, the man did have "access to some sensitive nuclear information"

 

[Bushy]

I don't know about the credibility of "Center for American Progress" is --but I did read this report already.

That is why I asked you to check the links, because I knew you won't trust their credibility. (It's okay, even I don't trust any website just like that).

p.s. was there any followup over case of the senior indian nuclear scientist (Loknath Mahalingam) -- who was found dead in Kali river under "mysterious circumstances" last July?


leads? arrests? any information he could have given out before being killed? According to indian and foreign media, the man did have "access to some sensitive nuclear information"

The case of death has been taken by the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation), and it is still under investigation. Two arrests gave been made, and one charge-sheet has been filed against one of the arrested persons. And the CISF has already overhauled all the security stages involved. About the rest of it, I haven't researched. However, if you pay me for my time, I could file for RTI (Right To Information) and have everything for you in black and white

 

[idune]

indian nuclear sites are vulnerable to Maoist rise and other insurgent groups. This security concern should be throughly discussed in media and raised in int'l forum.

 

[Bushy]

indian nuclear sites are vulnerable to Maoist rise and other insurgent groups. This security concern should be throughly discussed in media and raised in int'l forum.

Why don't you do it idune?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The case of death has been taken by the CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation), and it is still under investigation. Two arrests gave been made, and one charge-sheet has been filed against one of the arrested persons. And the CISF has already overhauled all the security stages involved. About the rest of it, I haven't researched. However, if you pay me for my time, I could file for RTI (Right To Information) and have everything for you in black and white

thanks for the update

 

[Bushy]

thanks for the update

You are always welcome, Abu.

 

[toxic_pus]

i mean seriously, it tells me that today's bank are more securer than your POWER PLANTS!!

Working in a toxic environment and someone picks up some tritium and pops it inside the water supply, how standardized would that be?

What SOPs are you exactly following at your high security complexes?

Now if you cant handle this BS in your power plants, it very clearly indicates that not much care would have been employed in your nuclear plants too, and that's a very logical and straight forward question.

Apples and jackfruit. Actually a case of shooting one's mouth before thinking.

The 'sabotage' that happened is exactly identical to 'heavy water' poisoning at Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating Station, of Canada (CANDU). Something from Wiki

In 1990, assistant plant operator Daniel George Maston [4] at the Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating Station took a sample of heavy water from the moderator system and loaded it into a "sport mix" drink dispenser in an industrial lunch zone. It was not loaded in a water cooler in an office. Eight employees drank some of the contaminated water. One individual who was engaged in heat stress work, requiring alternating work, rest, and rehydration periods consumed significantly more than the others. The incident was discovered when employees began leaving bioassay urine samples with elevated tritium levels, one with particularly and unusually high levels. The quantities involved were well below levels which could induce heavy water toxicity, but several employees received elevated radiation doses from tritium and activated chemicals in the water. It is believed that Maston intended the exposure to be a practical joke, whereby the affected employees would be required to give urine samples daily for an extended length of time.

Next time, before you start hopping around like our cousin primate, try taking off that tinfoil hat.

It have exactly "ingeniously equated" the two, as your PM (or some other thick head) equates a suicide bomb attack on a PAF base with our nuclear facilities!! And shows his 'concerns' over our safety procedures while sitting in Delhi when he dont even know hat happened in Assam!

Apparently the whole wide world is inhabited by 'think heads'. I know it burns. That explains this modicum of schadenfreude.

PS: Damn, qsaark beat me to the Point Lepreau reference.

 

[toxic_pus]

Have anyone of you ever heard something known as Nuclear Reprocessing that separates components of spent nuclear fuel. Reprocessing serves multiple purposes, and one of that is:

Producing plutonium for nuclear weapons,

Moreover though spent nuclear fuel may no longer be useful in sustaining a nuclear reaction but Nuclear reprocessing can separate spent fuel into various combinations of reprocessed uranium, plutonium, minor actinides, fission products, remnants of zirconium or steel cladding, activation products.


To add further i must say that we all know that Reactor-Grade and Weapons-Grade Uranium are used for TWO different purposes but this Nueclear reprocessing thingy can find about 1% Plutonium from the used nuclear fuel, which is considered a useful byproduct (to be used as Weapons-Grade Plutonium). Therefore, one of the main concerns regarding nuclear proliferation is to prevent this plutonium from being used by states i.e. checks should be in place at POWER PLANTS that these procedures dont take place (either covertly or overtly, with or without the knowledge of govt), thus this requires that a FOOLPROOF system should be in place and no hancky pancky of the minutest order should even take place at a POWER PLANT!!

Now if any tom dcik and harry can pick up some tritium and push it up a cooler, i wonder what checks are there to stop other (more intrested) parties to take away the 'required substance' from the POWER PLANT!!

Therefore as i have correctly implied that if your POWER PLANTS suck, no doubt your BOMBS would also suck just little harder!!

Qsaark to bear me out on this.

Premature ejaculation. Only if you could wait for the details to come out.

But then again, when was waiting fun for the gung-hos.