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India nuclear plant leaks!!

Will it be a National Mourning or a "Slap in the face" had the Terrorists in Pakistan Bombed some Important Installation ?

Brother xinix, Terrorists have been bombing pakistan for years now and instead of condemning them indian govt and media have been capitalizing on critisizing and posing pakistan's existance as a major threat to international community.

If someone attacks a market or a police post, indian govt and media tries to relate it with the security of our nuclear programme, i think pakistanis are as humans as indians and when such an opportunity comes for them to say something like indians do, its natural to expect criticism from pakistanis and by the way none of the terrorist attempt had been made on our nuclear facilities so far, on the contrary, this incident happened right in the heart of indian nuclear programme, so i think you should be expecting this criticism from pakistanis.
More over .. If u r Honest.. be Honest with This.

If Your Father is Killed in such an accident will u accept - its was Good and a Slap on You/Your Country ?

In my humble opinion, we shouldn't put forward such examples on this forum no matter how hypothetical we may sound coz this would not bring in logical answer, instead it'd start personal attack and would ruin the point of the entire discussion.

The Person who did it was going to do a Massacare. and You say It was Good ?

Brother Xinix, he didn't say killing someone is good, i think he couldn't make himself clear about this, what i,ve perceived from his post is that this incident came in handy for a reason to put an end to indian PM's attempt to pressurize pakistan.

How can One say that Just to Make a PM's Statement false 50 Lives and 50 Families can be Made "Gone" Forever ?
Even Bin Laden can have a statement according to which 9/11 was Right to do .. Can we really do so.. can we be Inhuman to accept it ?


Brother, these 50 men are sick and i wish they recover soon and live a happy and healty life with their families, he didn't say he wished that these 50 people should die, no one on this forum should dare to think that way, we are humans first, then muslims, hindus,christians etc, Islam itself doesn't support such thinking, Islam is all about humanity and respect for human life.

Human Life is Far Far above Diplomacy and Statements.
Statements can be changed - Human Live CANNOT

I 100% agree to you and wish all the sick people a healthy recovery and happy life...:pakistan:
 
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well here we go again - Pakistani posters bashing Indian safety records - Indians defending their nuclear plant safety.
The important issue here is to improve the safety at Indian power plants.
Safety and security is something that should continuously be improved and upgraded as we don't know how when or where the next accident might happen. There has been a serious safety breach inside the Kaiga plant - steps need to be taken to find who or what caused this immediately.
Someone poisoning the plant's water cooler - could be a man who is responsible for the maintainance of said cooler. A disgruntled employee - or someone who made a mistake (costly one too!)
Things like this can happen anywhere in the world - the issue is connected to Pak nuke safety issue as well - if someone can contaminate the cooler and get away - next day someone can smuggle some radioactive material out and contaminate the water supply of Bangalore. This is a serious issue - just like the Pak nukes getting into the hands of Taliban. We Indians are well advised to listen to some of the things the Pak posters are saying - but no gloating Pak posters - please!
 
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You Just made Obama think once again about nuclear energy agreement!.
what if things turn out like this:
Obama makes india say yes sir to everything make it against Iran and finally when all the juice is squeezed out of India against everybody, US cancels nuclear agreement leaving India in lurch.
Though highly unlikely, but it is going to make US think.
 
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bhai abbasniazi - Indians are merely echoing what the Western media is saying about Pak nukes - India did not start this issue of Pak nuclear safety.

The West would like nothing better than a non-nuclear South Asia. In fact they would like the Chinese and Russians to finish their nukes too but that won't happen!
The West has some genuine concern that Pak has been a past proliferator of nuke technology. They don't want rogue scientists selling the technology to terrorists. That's why the concern. India and indeed other nuke countries are also at risk - some disgruntled scientist might be approached by terrorists and might sell the technology. We all must be on our guards.
Pakistan is on the frontline - hence the extra concern.
 
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@luftwaffe - That's not going to happen ! It's a compartively minor incident - some extra pressure to improve safety and security might be there but cancelling the agreement is too big a step
 
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Some people here need a crash course in science. Do you people know the difference between a nuclear plant and a nuclear bomb?

This is probably the some sicko's idea of getting revenge against his co workers. Don't blow it out of proportion.

Xeric you are comparing a heavy water leak to the safety of the nuke bombs..A think tank like you should know the difference between these two and also who controls a nuclear bombs and a civilian nuclear facility..Is it your ignorance or a deliberate attempt to hide facts to make a cheap shot against India??

Have anyone of you ever heard something known as Nuclear Reprocessing that separates components of spent nuclear fuel. Reprocessing serves multiple purposes, and one of that is:

Producing plutonium for nuclear weapons,

Moreover though spent nuclear fuel may no longer be useful in sustaining a nuclear reaction but Nuclear reprocessing can separate spent fuel into various combinations of reprocessed uranium, plutonium, minor actinides, fission products, remnants of zirconium or steel cladding, activation products.


To add further i must say that we all know that Reactor-Grade and Weapons-Grade Uranium are used for TWO different purposes but this Nueclear reprocessing thingy can find about 1% Plutonium from the used nuclear fuel, which is considered a useful byproduct (to be used as Weapons-Grade Plutonium). Therefore, one of the main concerns regarding nuclear proliferation is to prevent this plutonium from being used by states i.e. checks should be in place at POWER PLANTS that these procedures dont take place (either covertly or overtly, with or without the knowledge of govt), thus this requires that a FOOLPROOF system should be in place and no hancky pancky of the minutest order should even take place at a POWER PLANT!!

Now if any tom dcik and harry can pick up some tritium and push it up a cooler, i wonder what checks are there to stop other (more intrested) parties to take away the 'required substance' from the POWER PLANT!!

Therefore as i have correctly implied that if your POWER PLANTS suck, no doubt your BOMBS would also suck just little harder!!

Qsaark to bear me out on this.
 
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INDIA’S NUCLEAR SAFETY

, India's desire is fraught with severe hazards. India's past record of nuclear-security is dismal.

Christopher Pine, a nuclear expert at the Natural Resources Council in Washington, stated that Indian power plants have the lowest capacity factor in the world and one of the poorest safety records. A UN report, published in 1993, confirmed Pine's fears.


The report stated that occupational-exposure hazards in India, calculated in proportion to the amount of electricity generated, were six to eight times more than the world average.


A subsequent report of Indian Parliamentary corroborated that there has been 147 mishaps or safety related incidents, including 28 of acute nature.

Dr A. Gopalakrishnan, former Chairman of India's Atomic Energy Regulatory Board, willy-nilly admitted in his report to the Atomic Energy Agency in 1996, following observations: (a) Indian nuclear facilities have had 130 instances of safety related concerns including 95 that require urgent action. (b) India is likely to face serious nuclear accident in the not too distant future. (c) The degree of automation and cross checks on safety in old nuclear power plants is very minimal.


The poor safety standards in nuclear plants have been a subject of litigation also. However, even India's supreme court (on 6 January 2004) wilted under government' s pressure and rejected a public-interest petition seeking disclosure of contents of Atomic Energy Regulation Board report. disallowed opening the lid from the Pandora box of lapses. The basic contention of the petition was that nuclear installations and atomic power stations across the country were endangering the lives of people living in the vicinity.

Dr A Gopalakrishnan, former Chairman of India's AERB was also a petitioner. He had contended that serious nuclear accidents could take place at Narora Nuclear Power Plant, Uttar Pradesh and Kaiga Nuclear Power Plant, Karnataka. The Supreme Court ruled that Government had every right to maintain secrecy about nuclear installations and deny public information about these in the interest of national security.


It would be pertinent to quote a few failures of nuclear safety. The Cirus reactor at Trombay, capable of producing 14 kg weapon-grade plutonium, developed a radiation leak in 1991. As a result, soil water and vegetation in the vicinity was contaminated. Dhruva, a reactor at Trombay, capable of producing 30 kg weapon grade plutonium, suffered from design problems that caused fuel failures. Mumbai port became radioactive because of nuclear effluents discharged by plutonium -reprocessing facilities.


The Fast Breeder Test Reactor of 40 MW at Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research, Kalpakkam, built with French assistance, was rated `not safe', and discarded. Similar reactors, like Super Phoenix of France and Monju of Japan, were also discarded because of safety hazards. Twenty-six workers were injured because of radiation leakage on 14 Mar 1980. Subsequently, a high dosage (740 times higher than the normal level) of iodine was found in seawater around this plant in 1989.

The radioactive waste from the plant contaminated the water supply of nearly 3000 villagers living nearby. Rajasthan Atomic Power Plants, Rawatbhata (Kota) were shut down several times during 1980 to 1994 due to cracks in its coolant channels, or water leakage. Madras Atomic Power Plants, Kalpakkam (Tamil Nadu) suffered numerous shutdowns because of radiation leakages, injurious to workers and marine life.


Let us quote a few more incidents. Since early 1990s, Madras Atomic Power Reactors have suffered frequent breakdown owing to defective flow of uranium. On March 1993, fire broke out in the Narora Atomic Power Plant. On 25 April 2003, heavy water leaked from one of the coolant channels. The resulting radiation affected the environment. The radiation leakages from tritium- contaminated heavy water from coolant channels of Kakrapar Atomic Power Station have affected not only the workers but also the population in vicinity. A power reactors experienced a near disastrous fire accident in 1991. The design of Kaiga Atomic Power Plants proved to be defective. Containment dome of a unit collapsed in 1994, 24 hours prior to commissioning of the plant.


In view of poor nuclear safety-standards in India, India's quest for augmenting its nuclear energy by establishing a sprawling network of nuclear reactors could be hazardous for the people and the environment. The performance of the existing reactors amply reflects that several plants suffered from flaws in designs, besides slipshod operation. Being the next-door neigbour, poor nuclear safety in India is a source of concern for it. The world community and the nuclear watchdogs, also, should prevent export of nuclear fuel to India ostensibly for nuclear-power generation.


Jana,
The Incidents you mention above are NOTHING compared to rest of the world.
If You make search in google "country" + "Nuclear accident" ; you will find every country having some such issues - China , India , Japan all have faced It.

The Leaders - US, USSR have faced Disasters incomparable to any other.


My Point is That NONE of The Incidents , occouring in INDIA were really Serious to make their Place in THIS List, Though we Had the First Nuclear Reactor in Asia and Has Pioneered the Thorium Fuel Cycle As well..
 
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My concern is not regarding the DELIBERATE or the ACCIDENT, i am more concern about the fact that how can someone just fiddled with the cooler and nobody even noticed?!
Maybe we should post an armed security guard at every Water Dispenser? What say you... common be realistic.
 
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Accept my salute too over your brilliance where you implied otherwise!

We thought that even nuclear power pants were kept under strict watch because of the obvious reasons, but never knew that it was the other way round in india.

i mean seriously, it tells me that today's bank are more securer than your POWER PLANTS!!

Working in a toxic environment and someone picks up some tritium and pops it inside the water supply, how standardized would that be?

What SOPs are you exactly following at your high security complexes?

Now if you cant handle this BS in your power plants, it very clearly indicates that not much care would have been employed in your nuclear plants too, and that's a very logical and straight forward question.

It have exactly "ingeniously equated" the two, as your PM (or some other thick head) equates a suicide bomb attack on a PAF base with our nuclear facilities!! And shows his 'concerns' over our safety procedures while sitting in Delhi when he dont even know hat happened in Assam!

I am not telling that its that some body sabotaging the water in a nuclear plant is not worrisome i am talking about the logic behind the security of nukes and leaking of a heavy metal?

Please read 34 and 36 post by Xinix hope you will get an idea..

Well after twisting the facts now you are comparing it with a statement made by our defense secretary and calling Our PM thick head...Its a kind of pathetic excuses xeric ..and you know it better than any one
 
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There is lots of hype in the post of several members from both the sides. The news reports posts also add more to the confusion. Allow me to present it in more layman language.

First of all it does not appear to be a pure ‘tritium’ (hydrogen-3) ingestion but the employees have consumed drinking water contaminated with the ‘heavy water’. Following is the reason why I think it is not pure tritium but heavy water ingestion:

Chemical formulae for the water is H2O (two hydrogen and one oxygen atom) whereas in the so called heavy water the two hydrogen atoms are replaced with two deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen) atoms hence D2O. Experiments in mice, rats, and dogs have shown that a degree of 25% deuteration causes sterility (sometimes irreversible). The deuterium toxicity is highly unlikely in the humans because it would take a very large amount of heavy water to replace 25% to 50% of a human being's body water (which in turn is 70% of body weight) with heavy water, accidental or intentional poisoning with heavy water is unlikely to the point of practical disregard. This will only happen if a person consumes only heavy water and no normal water for a period of several days.

Oral doses of heavy water in the multi-gram range, along with heavy oxygen 18O, are routinely used in human metabolic experiments (doubly-labeled water testing). Since 1 in every 6400 hydrogen atoms is deuterium, a 50 kg human containing 32 kg of body water would normally contain enough deuterium (about 1.1 gram) to make 5.5 grams of pure heavy water, so roughly this dose is required to double the amount of deuterium in the body.

In the present case, the employees were found their urines bioassay positive for tritium suggesting that they consumed water contaminated with heavy water (often dissolve tritium and other neutron-activated chemicals) obtained from some where in the primary heat transport (PHT) loop of the nuclear reactor. If you look at the schematics, it is easier said than done to have each and every corner of the reactor installed with a CCD camera. Even the water that is leaving in the form of the steam can be condensed and used as tritium-(and other isotopes) laced sample.

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Similar incident happened at the Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating Station, Canada. In 1990, assistant plant operator Daniel George Maston at the Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating Station took a sample of heavy water from the moderator system and loaded it into a "sport mix" drink dispenser in an industrial lunch zone. It was not loaded in a water cooler in an office. Eight employees drank some of the contaminated water. One individual who was engaged in heat stress work, requiring alternating work, rest, and rehydration periods consumed significantly more than the others. The incident was discovered when employees began leaving bioassay urine samples with elevated tritium levels, one with particularly and unusually high levels. The quantities involved were well below levels which could induce heavy water toxicity, but several employees received elevated radiation doses from tritium and activated chemicals in the water. It is believed that Maston intended the exposure to be a practical joke, whereby the affected employees would be required to give urine samples daily for an extended length of time.
 
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bhai abbasniazi - Indians are merely echoing what the Western media is saying about Pak nukes - India did not start this issue of Pak nuclear safety.

Brother DavyJones, this is what indians shouldn't be doing, they should use their brains, infact they are using it but for pressurizing pakistan and pushing it to a corner.

Indians must keep in mind that if its pakistan today on the hitlist of west, it may well be india someother time, so instead of fueling our anger we should sound reasonable.

The West would like nothing better than a non-nuclear South Asia. In fact they would like the Chinese and Russians to finish their nukes too but that won't happen!

Very right, i agree 100% and please put india's name there too coz they'd say if there in non-nuclear china then why u need nukes, whereas the fact and truth is that even if there was non-nuclear india pakistan'd have loved to have nukes, same would be the case with india, china, russia etc u know why? because we are all using eachothers name but from inside we all know that the most fearfull danger for the sovereignity of all these countries is the USA and the west, infact we are all trying to make ourselves safe from them and using eachothers name.

The West has some genuine concern that Pak has been a past proliferator of nuke technology.

West's concern ain't nuclear proliferation, its basically for two major reason;

1) Because pakistan is an islamic country.
2) Because pakistan is the weakest nuclear state and they want to make it a test ground for nuclear disarmament, which if becomes successfull will be extended to all four nuclear powers in the neighbourhood, and it'd leave the whole world on the mercy of the nuclear west.

They don't want rogue scientists selling the technology to terrorists. That's why the concern. India and indeed other nuke countries are also at risk - some disgruntled scientist might be approached by terrorists and might sell the technology. We all must be on our guards.

Infact they want some rouge scientist to make such an attempt coz this would provide them an opportunity to disarm that country, and trust me if time changes and a scenario emerges where they decide to destabilize india or disarm her, they'd use every possible incident, including this one, no matter how immaterial it might have been, they may also say that the nuclear scientist of india which was kidnapped and later killed was the one who handed over the technology to rouge country or group which used it against the west.

Pakistan is on the frontline - hence the extra concern.

YES, we know this and we know there intentions also, and let me assure you we know how to deal with them.:pakistan:
 
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I am not telling that its worrying thing that some body sabotaging the water in a nuclear plant is worrisome i am talking about the logic behind the security of nukes and leaking of a heavy metal?

Please read 34 and 36 post by Xinix hope you will get an idea..

Well after twisting the facts now you are comparing it with a statement made by our defense secretary and calling Our PM thick head...Its a kind of pathetic excuses xeric ..and you know it better than any one
Should i consider that you are now eschewing it around?

i think i have been very lucid in my arguments, all you have to do it to understand!
 
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Will it be a National Mourning or a "Slap in the face" had the Terrorists in Pakistan Bombed some Important Installation ?

In the very unlikely event that such were to happen, it would be BOTH.

Our nuclear installations are protected and run by the Armed Services, and Alhamdolillah, no such untoward incidents have been reported. We are undeterred by irresponsible and inaccurate reports coming from western or hindoostan media.



If Your Father is Killed in such an accident will u accept - its was Good and a Slap on You/Your Country ?

who said anything about people being killed? The indian workers who were advertently poisoned by their own colleagues fell sick, but did not succumb to their injuries.


Human Life is Far Far above Diplomacy and Statements.

Oh? Is it?

you're being too idealistic and emotional i think.

I don't disagree with you by the way, but it cannot be applied to Central/South Asian model.

Statements can be changed - Human Live CANNOT

that's true....but india should refrain from making irresponsible statements or analyzing Pakistani internal affairs ---especially statements which later come back to hit you :)




warmest of regards!

i wish speedy recovery to the poisoned scientists
 
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Maybe we should post an armed security guard at every Water Dispenser? What say you... common be realistic.

That's exactly what we want you people to do; be realistic!

And may be a bit more mature attitude would also help.
 
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This is a serious issue - just like the Pak nukes getting into the hands of Taliban. We Indians are well advised to listen to some of the things the Pak posters are saying - but no gloating Pak posters - please!

Nice try but it is seriously lame. Pakistani nukes falling into the hands of the Taliban is just like saying Indian nukes falling itno the hands of Maosists or one of the many other rebel orgs.

Please stick with this thread as this is regarding the leak at one of the Indian plants - this is not fiction but areality!!!!!!
 
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