India launches its 1st indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant

[shuttler]

Your citations are outdated.

July 7, 2013 outdated?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/262780-india-s-first-indigenous-aircraft-carrier-near-completion.html

All the latest news, from various sources, says that the ship is made out of steel manufactured by SAIL and other Indian companies. You are living in the alternate universe with reference to the fact that you still choosing to go by outdated sources.

What exactly happened is that India originally wanted steel from Russia, because 1) It would be delivered sooner and 2) India did not have the production facilities for making warship-grade steel
at that time.

But the Russian offer experienced severe cost escalations and dispute in negotiations resulted in the original supply contract getting halted mid-way through - the only alternative now was to make this steel indigenously. This will take a lot more time (also resulting in delays for the ship), but it will be more beneficial in the long term (yes, the production of high-strength military-grade steel in India was initiated not just for IAC-1, but for the nuclear submarines, and other future warships as well. It was more of a long-term strategy decision rather than short-term interim decision).

but the KEEL was laid in 2009 years (that means its production even earlier) before india can produce that standard of steel!

I did not assume that 80-90% of hull-fabrication materials were Indian, it was said by Indian Navy Vice-Admiral R.K. Dhowan.

Then he is imagining in his alternate state

Here is the link: Indigenization and the Indian Navy

But what exact components the remaining 10-20% consists of is not known, so I told you that's it's safer not to assume it out of imagination.

so the vice admiral could be the provider of the balance %



Yes, no more boilers, only gas turbines and in future N-reactors for the power.

IAC-1's maximum speed is upto 30 knots, Gorshkov's is only 29 knots, the 32 knots figure is the upper limit, but it cannot be sustained for long due to the limits on the boilers. 29 knots is the
GSQR-specified optimum speed.

IAC-1's optimum speed is 1 knot more, at 30 knots.

this new CV is so advanced that it only increases the navigation power by 1 or 2 knots over the Gorshkov which was launched 30 years ago albeit with refitted power generating system

IAC-1 surpasses Gorshkov is almost all (if not completely all) aspects of performance, endurance, air wing, radars & electronic components and other such stuff. It also has a longer service life and is less maintenance-intensive.

While Gorshkov is in process of refitting, why not bring it also to installation of the best technology!

The gas turbine engines also give it a lot of endurance while travelling at maximum speeds than Gorshkov.

It also has lesser target signature due to the sleek island superstructure (as was shown in the CG images), this is because Cold War-era ships like Gorshkov & Varyag also include the space allocated for cruise missiles and stuff they originally used to carry.

Naval doctrines have changed a lot in terms of India/China, so these ACC-based cruise missiles and stuff has gone - BUT the space allocated for operating & monitoring them has stayed back - this is part of the reason why Gorshkov and Varyag have such large islands with big target signature even in terms of Over-The-Horizon Targeting (OTHT), or simply visual signature.

IAC-1 was designed from the ground-up to cater to the needs of a modern 21st century Indian Navy, unlike Gorshkov and Varyag which were designed for Soviet needs and Soviet doctrine from the Cold War era.

the brit's elizabeth will have 2 islands

network54.com

courtesy bbc、

Plus, IAC-1 can carry more aircraft (30 as compared to 26) than Gorshkov, despite displacing less weight (37-40k compared to Gorshkov's 44.5k), this makes it decades ahead of Gorshkov in almost all terms that define a modern warship.

But the fighters on board are still a mix of mig 29 or the tejas

Given what Air Force and Navy have specified for Tejas Mk.2, it will outstrip MiG-29K in almost everything. So when and if Tejas Mk-2 (TM-2 for short) gets ready, the Navy will have no reason
to stick to MiG-29K against Tejas.

the Migs are proven

That's because this is the official launch ceremony.

for 3/8 completion!!!!! on top of budget and time overuns!!!

Alternate reality again, sir?

All the names have meanings defined in Sanskrit.

Viraat = Giant/Very Large
Vikramaditya = Brave/Brave as the Sun (this was also the name of an ancient Indian king)
Vikrant = Courageous
Vishal = Great/Gigantic/Magnificent

I am just giving the realistic possible word for completion of his pre-fix "vi-"

 

[Gessler]

July 7, 2013 outdated?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/262780-india-s-first-indigenous-aircraft-carrier-near-completion.html

What this link says is what I have already said in my post - that Russia was MEANT to supply the
steel (all of it), but COULD NOT due to a multitude of reasons emanating from both sides.

but the KEEL was laid in 2009 years (that means its production even earlier) before india can produce that standard of steel!

There isn't a definite date when this grade of steel began actual production, or actual supply to
the shipyard - it may even be that the small quantity of steel used at that part may have been an
interim import from other Western countries.

You may be surprised to know the Indian steel was in production even before the keel was laid.

Then he is imagining in his alternate state

Being the Vice-Admiral of one of the world's largest navies, he needs to do answer things from facts
and figures available on his desk, unlike the assumptions of a Chinese fanboy in front of a keyboard.

this new CV is so advanced that it only increases the navigation power by 1 or 2 knots over the Gorshkov which was launched 30 years ago albeit with refitted power generating system

As I said, it depends on what the GSQR issued by Navy specifies. Case in point, the British Queen
Elizabeth class, which is still being built, has a max speed of only around 25 knots, maybe a little more,
which is a full 5 knots lesser than IAC-1.

What does this show to you?

While Gorshkov is in process of refitting, why not bring it also to installation of the best technology!

Gorshkov has good technology already, but IAC-1 is much ahead of it, that's what I'm saying.

the brit's elizabeth will have 2 islands

network54.com

courtesy bbc

If they had 2 hostile nuclear-weapon wielding neighbours, they would have thought otherwise.

But the fighters on board are still a mix of mig 29 or the tejas

Yes, but in greater number.

Plus, I'm talking about the technology onboard the carrier, not the jets it carries. Don't you
think 20 x Migs operating from a technologically advanced carrier would be far more deadly
than 16 x Migs operating from a technologically inferior carrier??

MiG-29Ks may not stay in service right till the end of IAC-1's service in IN (after which it maybe
transferred to a foreign navy, possibly Vietnam or Australia; and gets a new aircraft compliment
altogether). But Tejas Mk-2 which is meant to be superior to the 29K will take over the roles in IN.

But Gorshkov's service life would be totally over by then.

One way or the other, Vikrant is decades ahead of Vikramaditya.

the Migs are proven

That doesn't mean TM-2 won't surpass them capability-wise.

for 3/8 completion!!!!! on top of budget and time overuns!!!

Again, the 3/8 figure is unrealistic, are you referring to completion of total work, or completion of
the most difficult and time-taking part? The most difficult phase of making a carrier
which is the construction of the hull & superstructure, is near completion. The work ahead is a lot
simpler - because they aren't any more big R&D or building challenges ahead.

On top of that, this is our first carrier built at an Indian shipyard, therefore there is a reason to
celebrate.

This is a major milestone for Indian shipbuilding.

I am just giving the realistic possible word for completion of his pre-fix "vi-"

The most realistic possibility would be "Victorious" because that kind of name is already in use by
many navies of the world.

Your assumption is actually trolling in a softer vein.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Good. More target practice for the DF-21.

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

Good. More target practice for the DF-21.

 

[shuttler]

What this link says is what I have already said in my post - that Russia was MEANT to supply the
steel (all of it), but COULD NOT due to a multitude of reasons emanating from both sides.

There isn't a definite date when this grade of steel began actual production, or actual supply to
the shipyard - it may even be that the small quantity of steel used at that part may have been an
interim import from other Western countries.

You may be surprised to know the Indian steel was in production even before the keel was laid.

so an assumption of the KEEL was made by indian blast funances
so the 100% steel produced by indians is just an assumption

Being the Vice-Admiral of one of the world's largest navies, he needs to do answer things from facts
and figures available on his desk, unlike the assumptions of a Chinese fanboy in front of a keyboard.

well I am just discussing the topics with a lot of indian cheerleading fanboys!

As I said, it depends on what the GSQR issued by Navy specifies. Case in point, the British Queen
Elizabeth class, which is still being built, has a max speed of only around 25 knots, maybe a little more,
which is a full 5 knots lesser than IAC-1.

you can only say that usa's power generating system is better than the brits NOT india is better in this category

What does this show to you?

answered

Gorshkov has good technology already, but IAC-1 is much ahead of it, that's what I'm saying.

My question was why not bring the 2 up to the same par when they are constructing and refitting at about the same time? short of funding I guess!

If they had 2 hostile nuclear-weapon wielding neighbours, they would have thought otherwise.

they also are considered themselves part of the police force. indian paranoids are customary and in many time over-reations are comical

Yes, but in greater number.
Plus, I'm talking about the technology onboard the carrier, not the jets it carries. Don't you
think 20 x Migs operating from a technologically advanced carrier would be far more deadly
than 16 x Migs operating from a technologically inferior carrier??

Yeah it will be great to see which is better in real world not on paper between the 2!

MiG-29Ks may not stay in service right till the end of IAC-1's service in IN (after which it maybe
transferred to a foreign navy, possibly Vietnam or Australia; and gets a new aircraft compliment
altogether). But Tejas Mk-2 which is meant to be superior to the 29K will take over the roles in IN.

dont you cheerleaders feel a bit boring talking about the superiority of the tejas and variants? "meant" to be superior, but the real results are unknown. Mig-29K is proven

But Gorshkov's service life would be totally over by then.

what have you spent some $2.3 billion just to end Gorshkov prematuredly?

One way or the other, Vikrant is decades ahead of Vikramaditya.

lets see if it is as good as it claims having a budget of 10x of Vikramaditya

That doesn't mean TM-2 won't surpass them capability-wise.

it is still taling on paper

when will the tejas naval version get the ioc?

Again, the 3/8 figure is unrealistic, are you referring to completion of total work, or completion of
the most difficult and time-taking part? The most difficult phase of making a carrier
which is the construction of the hull & superstructure, is near completion. The work ahead is a lot
simpler - because they aren't any more big R&D or building challenges ahead.

mainly because all the the rest are imports so to put you guys into better sleeps at night

some very vital parts: propellers, power generators, radar and surveillance, cable and electrical system, anti submarine deployments, stabilising systems etc - all imports no headaches for the indian operators!

On top of that, this is our first carrier built at an Indian shipyard, therefore there is a reason to
celebrate.
This is a major milestone for Indian shipbuilding.

so this is the biggest tonnage that was rolled out of indian shipyards? 40,000 (15,000 at the moment) max?

The most realistic possibility would be "Victorious" because that kind of name is already in use by
many navies of the world.

Your assumption is actually trolling in a softer vein.

"vincible" is another option. some like it some not!

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

What this link says is what I have already said in my post - that Russia was MEANT to supply the
steel (all of it), but COULD NOT due to a multitude of reasons emanating from both sides.



There isn't a definite date when this grade of steel began actual production, or actual supply to
the shipyard - it may even be that the small quantity of steel used at that part may have been an
interim import from other Western countries.

You may be surprised to know the Indian steel was in production even before the keel was laid.



Being the Vice-Admiral of one of the world's largest navies, he needs to do answer things from facts
and figures available on his desk, unlike the assumptions of a Chinese fanboy in front of a keyboard.



As I said, it depends on what the GSQR issued by Navy specifies. Case in point, the British Queen
Elizabeth class, which is still being built, has a max speed of only around 25 knots, maybe a little more,
which is a full 5 knots lesser than IAC-1.

What does this show to you?



Gorshkov has good technology already, but IAC-1 is much ahead of it, that's what I'm saying.



If they had 2 hostile nuclear-weapon wielding neighbours, they would have thought otherwise.



Yes, but in greater number.

Plus, I'm talking about the technology onboard the carrier, not the jets it carries. Don't you
think 20 x Migs operating from a technologically advanced carrier would be far more deadly
than 16 x Migs operating from a technologically inferior carrier??

MiG-29Ks may not stay in service right till the end of IAC-1's service in IN (after which it maybe
transferred to a foreign navy, possibly Vietnam or Australia; and gets a new aircraft compliment
altogether). But Tejas Mk-2 which is meant to be superior to the 29K will take over the roles in IN.

But Gorshkov's service life would be totally over by then.

One way or the other, Vikrant is decades ahead of Vikramaditya.



That doesn't mean TM-2 won't surpass them capability-wise.



Again, the 3/8 figure is unrealistic, are you referring to completion of total work, or completion of
the most difficult and time-taking part? The most difficult phase of making a carrier
which is the construction of the hull & superstructure, is near completion. The work ahead is a lot
simpler - because they aren't any more big R&D or building challenges ahead.

On top of that, this is our first carrier built at an Indian shipyard, therefore there is a reason to
celebrate.

This is a major milestone for Indian shipbuilding.



The most realistic possibility would be "Victorious" because that kind of name is already in use by
many navies of the world.

Your assumption is actually trolling in a softer vein.

Don't bother esse, you're dealing with someone who's using circular/A=B & B=C therefore A=C logic.

 

[Gessler]

so an assumption of the KEEL was made by indian blast funances
so the 100% steel produced by indians is just an assumption

Without a doubt, all the major components of the hull and island are made from Indian steel.

you can only say that usa's power generating system is better than the brits NOT india is better in this category

This is what you get when you think with a trollish state of mind living in an alternate reality.

What it should have taught you is that a carrier's speed depends on what the Navy operating the said carrier wants it to have.

The British are well capable of designing and building GT engines that are on
par with the US ones, but the Liz does not need that, so they didn't make it
up to this standard. Simple. It all depends on the requirement.

Another error that resulted out of the contradicting aspects of your alternate reality with the real truth.

My question was why not bring the 2 up to the same par when they are constructing and refitting at about the same time? short of funding I guess!

You cannot bring Gorshkov on par with Vikrant unless you completely scrap the ship and build from the ground-up.

Secondly, given the amount we spend on Gorshkov + Vikrant + other acquisitions, it's not a problem of funds shortage but a problem of shortage of available shipyards that can handle the additional work.

But ofcourse, your alternate mind will see a different story altogether, I can understand.

they also are considered themselves part of the police force. indian paranoids are customary and in many time over-reations are comical

Yeah...like the Chinese overreacting out of jealousy on IAC-1's progress? I can understand, kid.

dont you cheerleaders feel a bit boring talking about the superiority of the tejas and variants? "meant" to be superior, but the real results are unknown. Mig-29K is proven

Yeah well MiG-21 is operational and proven, does that make it superior to F-35?

what have you spent some $2.3 billion just to end Gorshkov prematuredly?

3 decades of service in India does not look like a premature ending to me.

INS Vikramaditya will serve Indian Navy for 30 years

mainly because all the the rest are imports so to put you guys into better sleeps at night

Even imports take time and expertise to install, but the real aspect is that systems on the island are pretty similar to those onboard the bridges of frigates and destroyers - we have experience building such stuff for decades, hence it will not be problematic.

some very vital parts: propellers, power generators, radar and surveillance, cable and electrical system, anti submarine deployments, stabilising systems etc - all imports no headaches for the indian operators!

I have stated above in the LiveFist link that main steering gear, power transmission systems, gearbox, and pressure valves/pumps and electrical cabling are all supplied by various Indian companies. Just in case you forgot: -

The steel has come from SAIL's plants in Raurkela in Orissa, Bokaro in
Jharkand and Bhilai in Chattisgarh; the Main Switch Board, steering gear
and water tight hatches have been manufactured by Larsen and Toubro in
its plants in Mumbai and Talegaon; the high capacity air conditioning and
refrigeration systems have been manufactured in Kirloskar's plants in Pune;
most pumps have been supplied by Best and Crompton, Chennai; Bharat
Heavy Engineering Limited (BHEL) is supplying the Integrated Platform
Management System (IPMS); the massive gear box is supplied by Elecon in
Gujarat; the tens of thousands of electrical cable is supplied by Nicco industries
in Kokatta; Kolkatta is also where the ship's anchor chain cable is manufactured.

From here: INS Vikrant launched | LiveFist

This is why I said you are living in an alternate reality - refusing to accept and comprehend the facts even after shown evidence (with links) as proof of my claims. Instead, you will continue to live in a dream-like state where you really believe everything on IAC-1 is from Russia, Italy, or US.

so this is the biggest tonnage that was rolled out of indian shipyards? 40,000 (15,000 at the moment) max?

No, that would be the 93,500-ton Aframax tankers, which were also built at CSL - same shipyard that is building IAC-1.

Case in point, IAC-1's present displacement is well above 20,000 tons - I have this info from reliable sources, but you may choose not to believe it all you like.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Don't bother esse, you're dealing with someone who's using circular/A=B & B=C therefore A=C logic.

It is called the transitive property of equality and it is trite mathematical law. Do you disagree with maths?

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

It is called the transitive property of equality and it is trite mathematical law. Do you disagree with maths?

Let me know when you figure out the difference between mathematical logic and reasoning and subsequently, the use of the two in a debate princess.

 

[shuttler]

Without a doubt, all the major components of the hull and island are made from Indian steel.

No there is a huge doubt as I have pointed out - the KEEL
if the keel was laid in 2009 and the production of which should be before the laying and by that time I think the contract with Russian's steel supplier was signed and thus their supply of the KEEL because indian steel mills did not have that technology if they had why you need to sign contracts with the Russians and when the Russians defaulted, was there any law suites on their breach of contracts?

This is what you get when you think with a trollish state of mind living in an alternate reality.

as I said cheerleading indians take serious comments as trolls while trolls as their scriptures

What it should have taught you is that a carrier's speed depends on what the Navy operating the said carrier wants it to have.

The British are well capable of designing and building GT engines that are on
par with the US ones, but the Liz does not need that, so they didn't make it
up to this standard. Simple. It all depends on the requirement.

that is a simpletons answer. Recently the brits have problems with Spain while the Isles Malvinas is not settled. They need a better aircraft carrier out of requirements if not why build one

But regardless, comparing the speed of the QE with Americans CV is not the issue. Both engines are not made in india

Another error that resulted out of the contradicting aspects of your alternate reality with the real truth.

the fact is there are conflicting facts on the origin of steel supplies

You cannot bring Gorshkov on par with Vikrant unless you completely scrap the ship and build from the ground-up.

No. It is only partially true. Probably the part of the original structure will cause the upgrading problems but not with add-ons

C'mon you mean you cannot equipped the Gorschkov with better boilers and steam engines?

like radar,

I believe radar can be upgraded to one of the best on Gorshkov

Secondly, given the amount we spend on Gorshkov + Vikrant + other acquisitions, it's not a problem of funds shortage but a problem of shortage of available shipyards that can handle the additional work.

so it is a joke when you tell me a country so big as india cannot have a second shipyard that cant handle the refitting of a 40,000 tons aircraft carrier

But ofcourse, your alternate mind will see a different story altogether, I can understand.

that is nonsense. I am stating facts and giving logical reasoning

Yeah...like the Chinese overreacting out of jealousy on IAC-1's progress? I can understand, kid.

no way we are over-reacting
I was questioning you cheerleaders and making jokes along the line

Yeah well MiG-21 is operational and proven, does that make it superior to F-35?

it depends on the affordability and requirement. 1 F35 = 4 Mig 29s

comparing F-35 is not reasonable because it is at least 1 generation above Mig-29 while Mig-29 is at par with tejas, both at lower generations than F-35. You have to compare apple with apple not apple with pine-apple

3 decades of service in India does not look like a premature ending to me.

usually the service lifespan for a well maintained CV is about half a decade. Yes?

INS Vikramaditya will serve Indian Navy for 30 years

Even imports take time and expertise to install, but the real aspect is that systems on the island are pretty similar to those onboard the bridges of frigates and destroyers - we have experience building such stuff for decades, hence it will not be problematic.

true. all imports require skillful labours who are good at leggos in order to bring the parts and equipment to function. I have no doubt about that since india has a long history of importing weapons add foreign systems

I have stated above in the LiveFist link that main steering gear, power transmission systems, gearbox, and pressure valves/pumps and electrical cabling are all supplied by various Indian companies. Just in case you forgot: -


From here: INS Vikrant launched | LiveFist

these items are by comparison relatively low tech

This is why I said you are living in an alternate reality - refusing to accept and comprehend the facts even after shown evidence (with links) as proof of my claims. Instead, you will continue to live in a dream-like state where you really believe everything on IAC-1 is from Russia, Italy, or US.

I never said your gigantic ironing board is from Russian or else except on the supply of steel (some from Russia - the KEEL); and also the other key components which are mostly foreign-made and you people have admission to that

No, that would be the 93,500-ton Aframax tankers, which were also built at CSL - same shipyard that is building IAC-1.

Is that all?

Case in point, IAC-1's present displacement is well above 20,000 tons - I have this info from reliable sources, but you may choose not to believe it all you like.

even if the tonnage is 20k tons it is still just a fraction of the total. No one will celebrate on a %-baked product officially like that. Not even the N Koreans!

 

[President]

Viraat, Vikrant, Vikramaditya, Vishal ect..
Why all indian AC names begin with Vi?

What does "Vi" mean in indian?

Vi stands for Victory in all the languages !

 

[Dandpatta]

Viraat, Vikrant, Vikramaditya, Vishal ect..
Why all indian AC names begin with Vi?

What does "Vi" mean in indian?

Vi is used in Sanskrit to denote something of significant difference, something that sets apart. It also signifies 'intensity'.

Hope this helps

Cheers

 

[cloud_digger]

Just report him people. Why do you have to respond to his nonsense? There is no need to justify our actions to a troll.

 

[bloo]

I have the citations posted
It was not my opinion



the contradiction of whether the steel is made in india against not or partially not made in india from the respective source quoted





you may live with decades of delays as usual

but a delay is a delay



so you have tried gearbox and the dieseal generators which are indian made and they failed?



so obvious the steel where the keel was made is from anywhere (Russia!) than india (where the technology of making high quality steel was not acquired!



The CVN will be our next rolled out product. We wont have an official party until it is 100% completed and reasonably doing some basic test sailing/ We definitely wont party when it is only 2/8 complete.

Liaoning is working very well! It is slayed for intial training and it could be a stand-by offer to our next CV or CVN when the latter is doing their routine maintenance

We have a de-commissioned foreign made CV now operating as a hotel and amusement park.



so contributing comments are trolls while trolls are thanked multiple time for you cheerleaders?


you can find the meaning readily in the perfectly matching indian community here on board



No I didnt bring the word " carsino" into the discussion. It was some cheerleaders who started it




I didnt say you're not but youve brought a lot of jokes along the way

We not able to participate? you are joking again and it is not funny



yeah the customarily indian celebration on the drop of a nickel



the status of Liaoning is stated above and it is doing great!

you cheerleading indian are not even capable to have the Gorshkov refitted in your own shipyard!

Just give it up buddy.
Those were not citations, that was own personal bias.
What I gave u were citations.

The steel IS made in India you hane NO source that denies it straight forward, whereas I have 3 which prove your "theories" wrong.

You can keep counting our delays but in the end we will still have an aircraft carrier before you will.

They failed yes, and now they have succeeded. Your emphasizing the word failed won't change the future.

Read links posted in #333 before indulging ur premature fantasies, Russia were in the end NOT able to provide the steel, which is what the DMRL and SAIL did. It is doubtful that the Russians even did provide a little amount or if the little amount was even used.

I am sure you are 100% ready after a practice ship, a cassino and years of researching HMASmelbourne.

Those are not comments they are only snide remarks to dodge past my reasoning as you had nothing to contribute.

Even more so in the few of the Chinese in the Chinese community.

As for the jokes, keep laughing it'll be on you in the end.
Of course you are not able to participate, we have been using an AC for so many decades and if I am not wrong PLAN's ambitions for an AC date back to the 70s and yet you don't have an active aircraft carrier. Unfortunately for you neither of us are laughing.

And the customary Chinese condescension in the drop of a nickle.
You people don't want to win, you just want others to lose.

The point remains that regardless of what you do Liaoning is still a practice ship with neutered abilities, how hard can it be to maintain it. No one even expects it to perform.

and I bet refitting Liaoning which is basically a shell of the ex-varyag is as same as refitting Vikramaditya which needs the sensors, boilers, weaponry et cetra to work, and not just sit around for "training".

 

[Gessler]

No there is a huge doubt as I have pointed out - the KEEL
if the keel was laid in 2009 and the production of which should be before the laying and by that time I think the contract with Russian's steel supplier was signed and thus their supply of the KEEL because indian steel mills did not have that technology if they had why you need to sign contracts with the Russians and when the Russians defaulted, was there any law suites on their breach of contracts?

As the Vice-Admiral pointed out, there is 10-20% foreign component in the floating department (which means the hull). But it's only a small fraction of the entire hull, not a very major percentage.

There was no lawsuit because it was mutually agreed termination of contract.

But regardless, comparing the speed of the QE with Americans CV is not the issue. Both engines are not made in india

The LM2500+ GTs are assembled in India by HAL's Bangalore facilities under a license agreement, they come with certain India-specific modifications.

the fact is there are conflicting facts on the origin of steel supplies

80-90% of the stuff is Indian, debate is about where the remaining 10-20% came from. I can't believe you are talking on and on about such a small fraction. Sort of shows you're desperation.

No. It is only partially true. Probably the part of the original structure will cause the upgrading problems but not with add-ons

C'mon you mean you cannot equipped the Gorschkov with better boilers and steam engines?

You can strip off all the add-on components and add new ones, but the bigger problem lies with the hull and island. Altering these structures completely is not possible. It's better to build a new ship
altogether.

I believe radar can be upgraded to one of the best on Gorshkov

It will have the EL/M-2258 ALPHA AESA. It's a very good radar already. But better stuff like the MF-STAR cannot be added due to the LORAN fitment (the large drum on top of the island).

IAC-1 comes with 6 x MFSTAR arrays (like SAMPSON), and 1 RAN-40L radar (comparable to S1850M), that's great stuff really.

so it is a joke when you tell me a country so big as india cannot have a second shipyard that cant handle the refitting of a 40,000 tons aircraft carrier

At this point, no. Only CSL was available for contract, all the remaining shipyards are packed to the brim with orders for frigates, destroyers, corvettes and some with N-subs.

it depends on the affordability and requirement. 1 F35 = 4 Mig 29s

comparing F-35 is not reasonable because it is at least 1 generation above Mig-29 while Mig-29 is at par with tejas, both at lower generations than F-35. You have to compare apple with apple not apple with pine-apple

If I remember correctly, the topic was about what was operational and what was yet to be operational, when did it change to 4th gen v/s 5th gen talk?

usually the service lifespan for a well maintained CV is about half a decade. Yes?

With it's current package, Gorshkov can serve for 30 yrs, after that it depends on IN's decision to keep it for longer or not - if yes, the ship will be subject to a deep-upgrade, enhancing the lifespan by many more years.

Didn't you how we maintained INS Viraat (ex-Hermes) all these years?

these items are by comparison relatively low tech

Not many countries can make them. Still, the most difficult part of IAC-1's construction is nearly complete, the work ahead is similar to what we do on frigates/destroyers etc. no big challenge because we do this all the time.

The next big challenge will be the sea trials, after the ship is complete. But it happens more under IN's supervision, not under CSL's responsibility.

I never said your gigantic ironing board is from Russian or else except on the supply of steel (some from Russia - the KEEL); and also the other key components which are mostly foreign-made and you people have admission to that

80-90% in hull
50-60% in propulsion
30-40% in aviation

That means 65-70% total indigenization. Very good for our first ACC.

Is that all?

I think that is it. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone?