India launches its 1st indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant

[indiatester]

when was that presentation done?

2008 I think.

 

[Mav3rick]

To pop your bubble.....ahhhh....delicious

Brahmos achieves Mach 6.5 speed during test

India successfully test-fires Shourya missile - The Hindu

BRAHMOS 6.5 M tested at lab.

SHAURYA 7.5M

Son, I was rather interested in weapons that could effectively challenge a MACH 5+ missile and not in a list of MACH 5+ missiles

 

[Mav3rick]

Why not?
Naval Tejas is bound to be ready around the time Vikrant is commissioned, so I don't see where I was wrong.
Its your bias that makes you say that.

I can agree with a Navalized version of Rafale/Mig-29, but Tejas is hardly ready to take off from ground, let alone from an ACC. And you know what I mean, don't be bringing in here how many times Tejas has actually been able to fly!!

This has been discussed till death in many other threads you might wanna check up on them.
But I'll repeat it for your sake, speed is hardly a factor when AKG is coming head on, and it is not a cruise missile that it'll take fancy maneuvers to dodge past defense systems.
And imagine 10 ships launching defensive missiles all over the place.
But disregarding that, IN will have AWACS other than the present Ka-31 heli-borne awacs which will again aid in detection more than conventional ship based detection.


AWAC systems like these along side naval fighters traveling at a distance from the carrier group will automatically have greater chances of detecting and engaging enemy aircrafts before they even get to fire your godly AKGs.

I have no problem with IN/IAF being able to detect the missile but shooting it down even head on is no joke! First of all, this is not an arrow that will fly straight, this missile is actually capable of hitting moving targets which means that it does actually has the ability to alter its flight path for various reasons.

Secondly, do you realize what it takes to shoot down a 400-500kg body of mass travelling in excess of MACH 5? Can you imagine the Kinetic energy necessary for an effective engagement? An what happens where there are 8-12 such missiles homing in on an ACC?

 

[gslv mk3]

Son, I was rather interested in weapons that could effectively challenge a MACH 5+ missile and not in a list of MACH 5+ missiles

Do you even know about the range of RAN40L radar used in the Vikrant??Thats with the range of the the carriers Radar,You will have to clear the air defence of an entire CBG,evade detection of that Kamov Ka-31 and Mig 29Ks before you get a chance,to launch that.Best of luck with that.

 

[Mav3rick]

First thing we indians dont need ACs for pakistan as owr shore based planes are very much capable of controling yours shore lines from owr bases in western central & south india dont worry vikrant and vikrmaditya are not for you if need be we can take care of your entire navy by Viraat

now about the 250KM range brother the thing is you at least need a plane to launch those which is not possible since all your AF will be batteling IAF aircrafts from western indian air bases

plus your super duper 250KM missile needs at guide your missile in initial phase for least to come within 150 KM range of the ship by the time if it ever comes it has to counter the multi layered radar and AA missile shields of other ships in the CBG as ACs dont go owt in the open alone

hope u get my point sir

I believe that ACC may be deployed by IN in case of war against Pakistan, and so this discussion. If it is not deployed then there is no point in this argument.

And don't worry, we will find Jets that will carry our ACCK against IN, when necessary.

As for your Air Force, we are not very concerned, as the Russian BVRs that you carry have 0 kills in their history and are extremely unreliable where as the BVRs that we carry have an excellent record. The story is quite similar, although not as grim, with regards to WVR Missiles. Plus, most importantly, we will have force multipliers in ground based SAM assets and Jammers plus AWACS well within PAF airspace while IAF will have to face all those along with PAF .

Do you even know about the range of RAN40L radar used in the Vikrant??Thats with the range of the the carriers Radar,You will have to clear the air defence of an entire CBG,evade detection of that Kamov Ka-31 and Mig 29Ks before you get a chance,to launch that.Best of luck with that.

You expect to be engaging threats beyond 300km's of your CBG? CAP missions beyond 200km's? Really?

 

[gslv mk3]

I can agree with a Navalized version of Rafale/Mig-29, but Tejas is hardly ready to take off from ground, let alone from an ACC. And you know what I mean, don't be bringing in here how many times Tejas has actually been able to fly!!

Pathetic trolling as usual,Arent you the guy who claim that India assembles fighter from CKD kits,while Pakistan have a fully fledged Aerospace Industry

Tejas actually took flight in 2001,As common sense dictates,you cannot use a regular fighter jet for carrier operations,So Naval Tejas,with a strengthened airframe and landing gear was built,Its is similar to the Tejas Trainer.It made it first flight in 2012,and plans to complete Ski Jump and Recovery tests fromShore Based Testing Facility this year.

 

[gslv mk3]

As for your Air Force, we are not very concerned, as the Russian BVRs that you carry have 0 kills in their history and are extremely unreliable where as the BVRs that we carry have an excellent record. The story is quite similar, although not as grim, with regards to WVR Missiles. Plus, most importantly, we will have force multipliers in ground based SAM assets and Jammers plus AWACS well within PAF airspace while IAF will have to face all those along with PAF .

Which one?SD 10?Do you know that China still uses R77s and R73s
If Indian BVR missiles were uncapable why were the BVR less PAF hiding,When IAF was pounding your targets at Kargil?
Indian navy uses R 77,R 73 and Derby Missiles,and you'll see solid fuel Astra 1 and Ramet Astra 2 by time Vikrant is Inducted.





You expect to be engaging threats beyond 300km's of your CBG? CAP missions beyond 200km's? Really?[/QUOTE]

You expect to be engaging threats beyond 300km's of your CBG? CAP missions beyond 200km's? Really?

Whats the use of long range Mig 29K then?You'll be facing detection from the AEW&C aircrafts like Kamov Ka 31,

 

[MilSpec]

I believe that ACC may be deployed by IN in case of war against Pakistan, and so this discussion. If it is not deployed then there is no point in this argument.

And don't worry, we will find Jets that will carry our ACCK against IN, when necessary.

As for your Air Force, we are not very concerned, as the Russian BVRs that you carry have 0 kills in their history and are extremely unreliable where as the BVRs that we carry have an excellent record. The story is quite similar, although not as grim, with regards to WVR Missiles. Plus, most importantly, we will have force multipliers in ground based SAM assets and Jammers plus AWACS well within PAF airspace while IAF will have to face all those along with PAF .



You expect to be engaging threats beyond 300km's of your CBG? CAP missions beyond 200km's? Really?

Sir,
I am not sure if you are aware of the protocols followed by any professional air force to induct multi million dollar worth of hardware. Despite having the Python V and derby in the inventory, IAF is still maintaining and procuring RVV AE/SD/PD series of BVR, apart from that please do not forget that your BVR mounted on the workhorse of PAF has a seeker developed by Vympel bureau. Santro can make you aware of the test results of late 90 designed BVR missiles tested by the USAF if you ask him, and the array of confirmed BVR missiles available for IAF can shame a lot of powerful Air forces around the world.

I have no intentions of getting into a pAF vs IAF debate, coz in the words of Shaggy "datz been played out", but I do want to reiterate this to you and fellow members, who are going by ethopian eritrean iraqi and libyan combat experience, there is much more to r27, r77, r73 than on the wikipedia, ask that to any USAF pilot!

 

[Mav3rick]

Pathetic trolling as usual,Arent you the guy who claim that India assembles fighter from CKD kits,while Pakistan have a fully fledged Aerospace Industry

This is what you deduced from my posts? Quite sad really, IQ challenged??

Tejas actually took flight in 2001,As common sense dictates,you cannot use a regular fighter jet for carrier operations,So Naval Tejas,with a strengthened airframe and landing gear was built,Its is similar to the Tejas Trainer.It made it first flight in 2012,and plans to complete Ski Jump and Recovery tests fromShore Based Testing Facility this year.

And I am trolling because I refused to believe that Tejas will ever materialize? Hmmm.......how many Tejas are in active service with the IAF despite first flight in 2001?? And why is that?

 

[Mav3rick]

Which one?SD 10?Do you know that China still uses R77s and R73s
If Indian BVR missiles were uncapable why were the BVR less PAF hiding,When IAF was pounding your targets at Kargil?
Indian navy uses R 77,R 73 and Derby Missiles,and you'll see solid fuel Astra 1 and Ramet Astra 2 by time Vikrant is Inducted.

Although we believe that SD-10 is a very capable BVRAAM, it is no AIM-120. And I hope you have guessed it by now, I was indeed referring to AMRAAM. SD-10b too is considered almost as capable as AIM-120.

Our MO during Kargil was, Mujahideen, which meant no official involvement of PakMil. Had you really wanted to test our BVRs, you could have crossed LoC/Border, you could not do that even when you were confident that PAF was not equipped with BVRs!!!

Whats the use of long range Mig 29K then?You'll be facing detection from the AEW&C aircrafts like Kamov Ka 31,

Isn't the long range meant for deeper strikes, rather then CAP?? I mean is CAP not supposed to complement several layers of defense, how do you expect to do that 200-300km's away from CBG and within strike range of PAF/PN?

 

[Mav3rick]

Sir,
I am not sure if you are aware of the protocols followed by any professional air force to induct multi million dollar worth of hardware. Despite having the Python V and derby in the inventory, IAF is still maintaining and procuring RVV AE/SD/PD series of BVR, apart from that please do not forget that your BVR mounted on the workhorse of PAF has a seeker developed by Vympel bureau. Santro can make you aware of the test results of late 90 designed BVR missiles tested by the USAF if you ask him, and the array of confirmed BVR missiles available for IAF can shame a lot of powerful Air forces around the world.

I have no intentions of getting into a pAF vs IAF debate, coz in the words of Shaggy "datz been played out", but I do want to reiterate this to you and fellow members, who are going by ethopian eritrean iraqi and libyan combat experience, there is much more to r27, r77, r73 than on the wikipedia, ask that to any USAF pilot!

You may write page upon page of praise on Russian BVRs. However, the fact remains the same that after multiple launches, the Russian BVRs have 0 strikes as opposed to 100% kill ratio of the Aim-120. And I hope you understand the difference b/w kill ratio and probability of hit. If you had indeed been so confident of the Russian equipment, you would not have been busy purchasing outside.

You actually shared the same dilemma as China, you had no real alternatives until just about 8-10 years ago and since then you have gone crazy with arms purchased outside Russia.

 

[gslv mk3]

This is what you deduced from my posts? Quite sad really, IQ challenged??

Sorry,I've given the reply to that in the same thread.

And I am trolling because I refused to believe that Tejas will ever materialize? Hmmm.......how many Tejas are in active service with the IAF despite first flight in 2001?? And why is that?

IOC 1 was given in 2011,IOC 2 will be given this year,We like to move in a careful manner,IAF doesnt hush to induct the Tejas in IOC stantards,unlike ..........
And you know when the first flight of Rafale TD take place?Google it.

 

[VelocuR]

Don't think its INS Vikrant will long last and require more than 30 times maintenance and upgrades supports, you know well the poor records on Indian Navy and the submarines sank from dockyard explosions. Aircraft Carrier will not run smoothly for long-terms.

 

[gslv mk3]

Although we believe that SD-10 is a very capable BVRAAM, it is no AIM-120. And I hope you have guessed it by now, I was indeed referring to AMRAAM. SD-10b too is considered almost as capable as AIM-120.

SD 10 b as capable as AMRAAM but Russian missiles are inferior?I dont think so.

Our MO during Kargil was, Mujahideen, which meant no official involvement of PakMil. Had you really wanted to test our BVRs, you could have crossed LoC/Border, you could not do that even when you were confident that PAF was not equipped with BVRs!!

Still believing in these propaganda?PAf didnt have BVRs back then.

Don't think its INS Vikrant will long last and require more than 30 times maintenance and upgrades supports, you know well the poor records on Indian Navy and the submarines sank from dockyard explosions. Aircraft Carrier will not run smoothly for long-terms.

We have been making warships for decades,We are able to built modern stealth ships like 7000 tonne Shivalik and Kolkata class.Our Cochin shipyard,which built this particular one has built 100,000 tonne Aframax Tankers.
Now what is your experience in ship building?Assembling 2000 tonne corvettes oops frigates??

Bur baby burn

 

[gslv mk3]

You actually shared the same dilemma as China, you had no real alternatives until just about 8-10 years ago and since then you have gone crazy with arms purchased outside Russia.

Oh Come on,we were purchasing lot of arms from France and UK- remember Mirages,Gnats,Alouettes,Jaguars,Hawker Sea Hawk,Sea harriers,Breguet Alize,Sea King,Vijayanta tanks,Swedish and British Howitzers