What's new

India launches its 1st indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant

It is not just about the origin of steel

the more your people are talking the larger exposure of problems here!
Who is proving who's wrong? You guys dont seem to use your brains!

So, the problem is that you are not able to comprehend the fact that no Russian steel was involved in IAC-1's construction? For as long as you fail to comprehend the truth, and when you finally are able to comprehend it, refuse to accept the truth, you will remain in the delusional state that you
currently are.

The defense ministry, navy vice-admirals as well as the shipyard's sources have clarified that IAC-1 is 80-90% indigenous in the floating (hull-fabrication/construction) category, 50% in the propulsion category (which includes gearboxes, power supply units, rudders & propellers), the remaining 2 categories i.e. weapons & aircraft compliment and supporting systems (which includes maintenance equipment, fuel, and other stuff) are about 30% indigenous due to imports.

This means that the ship is in the overall 65-70% indigenous. But this is our first home-made ACC so that's okay for now. Things will improve by the time IAC-2 is being built.

But you will not agree to comprehend these facts, instead you have chosen to live in an alternate reality where you alone assume and comprehend everything as you like - the problem comes when you try to apply the rules of your alternate universe in the real world here.

You will assume the ship was actually built in Russia and silently sneaked into India. Nothing wrong in assuming that way in your alternate universe, but if you try to apply that self-made assumption in the real world, you end up making moot points like the ones you have just made - with nothing to prove except the fact that you are a person living in dream state until yesterday and you have woken up just now.
 
.
Why are you trying to change the subject?
Your point was that steel was not from India which I proved you wrong.

there is no change of subject and whole case of launching and sources of claims are contradictory

As for the original delay was because CSL didn't get the steel in time(Russia was unable to make them)
How much has the Russians supplied?

and had to then give the contract to SAIL and DMRL and that was a challenge in itself, they weren't ready as it is and stuff like DH36,EH36 et cetra aren't easy to make at a moment's go.

So it has taken you 4 years to upgrade the technology, correct?

As for the gearboxes and diesel generator problems, we are building it for the first time such problems are bound to happen. First have the audacity to build one before critiquing.

diesel generator - is it imported?
both the gear boxes and diesel generator are the reason for the delay? What is the difference of having the gearbox+diesel generator to get the ironing board floating and its floating without the gearbox and diesels

Of course we can build the CV or CVN on our own, confidently!


Vikrant was laid down in 2009 and has been launched 4 years after they got the steel, that doesn't seem to me like a long time.
So in all its essence it is Russia's fault that they weren't able to give the ABS steel in time, coz as proven CSL was able to lay the ship down after SAIL and DRDL provided the steel, if the Russians had provided the steel in time, CSL would have still completed it after laying down the keel.So I don't see what your qualm is?

So as I asked it takes 4 years to acquire the technology for making better steel, right?
Again did you sue the Russians for non-delivery or have they delivered some to fulfill just part of the contract?

The stipulated time is 9 years after being laid down, this is good if not better than most experienced nations out there. The Charles de Gaule took 12 years to be commisioned after being laid down.

giving a CdG example is not a good excuse for delay. Why are cheerleading indians so lame?

I am sure the French would have grilled their politcians hard then.

So effectively, with the delays we are still doing better than expected.

because of a low expectation base

Well atleast our ironing board will be ready in time if not it is still running in a nice pace, lets see if your floating casino can fly slot machines to attack ur enemies.

Liaoning a fabulous make all refitted in China which is now a CV for training
 
.
haha!
You are funny china man!
with that broken English of yours and anger like a steaming momo!
every time u read an Indian comment your eyes must be opening wide past their natural limits!! :D
thank us man! :D

Trolling at its best :lol::lol::lol::lol:




Man I can't believe this Guy is still burning even after 2 days :D

Steel from india? Read this:

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...g-built-from-indian-steel-113080701287_1.html

INS Vikrant's first victory: Being built from Indian steel


However one dresses it up, a steel plant is not a pretty place. A blast of heat hits us as we enter the gigantic shed that houses Bhilai Steel Plant’s largest blast furnace, which converts ore into pig iron. Our eyes still attuned to the bright Chhattisgarh sunlight outside, we peer into a smoky version of what can only be described as Dante’s inferno.

Amidst the deafening hiss of steam-operated machinery, a gleaming rivulet of molten pig iron flows past us and into an enormous ladle. Sparks dance up from the molten metal, iron particles that are literally aflame. Another glowing rivulet of slag, the waste material left after ore becomes iron, flows away into a murky darkness. Suddenly, sheets of flame shoot out of the base of the furnace as helmeted steelworkers “tap” the melt.

ALSO READ: Retain 30% duty on iron ore exports: Karnataka steelmakers

In this hellish battleground, defence indigenisation has won a significant victory. Bhilai Steel Plant and its sister plants of the Steel Authority of India (SAIL) — at Rourkela, Durgapur and Bokaro — have manufactured 26,000 tonnes of high-grade “warship steel” that has gone into INS Vikrant, India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier that will be launched into water at Cochin Shipyard on Monday. Simultaneously, SAIL supplied steel for four corvettes that Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers, Kolkata, is building under Project 28. And Essar Steel is providing steel for four destroyers that Mazagon Dock, Mumbai, is building under the Indian Navy’s Project 15B.

“Warship steel” is a challenging specialty metal. It must be hard and also tough, just as a champion gymnast must be strong as well as flexible. It must remain so at temperatures of minus 60 degrees Celsius, when normal metal plates shatter easily. In its maritime working environment, it must resist endless corrosion from seawater and air.

ALSO READ: Navy eyes high-tech options for future aircraft carriers

Small wonder then that India has long relied on Russia, Poland, the UK and others for steel for its warships. But that created two major problems: Firstly, warship production was often delayed due to the whims of steel suppliers. And, secondly, multiple sourcing, with multiple specifications, created logistical problems over the four-decade service life of a warship, with a multitude of different spare plates and welding consumables required, often in tiny quantities, sometimes from sources that had shut down.

Says Commodore Saibal Sen, who is overseeing the construction of INS Vikrant, “Developing our own warship steel was a technological imperatives”.

And so the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) took up a project in 1999 to develop and mass-produce warship grade steel. Russia provided the chemical formula of warship steel called ABA, but the challenge in steelmaking is to translate science into manufacture.

ALSO READ: SAIL's July production up 3% to 1.08 MT

There was little time to lose. The 37,500-tonne INS Vikrant needed to start construction but awaited confirmation that indigenous steel could be supplied. Also in the pipeline were a series of warships — four 2,500-tonne corvettes of Project 28; four 6,800-tonne destroyers of Project 15B; and seven 4,900-tonne frigates of Project 17A.

The Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL), a part of DRDO, began working with SAIL, finding a way to produce warship steel cheaply in quantities that ran into tens of thousands of tonnes. Rourkela Steel Plant found that “tempering and quenching” — which involves heating steel to red heat and then plunging it into water — gave the required grain structure, but would cost too much. And then came the breakthrough: Bhilai Steel Plant developed a “continuous casting” process and warship grade steel was now affordable. In 2004, Cochin Shipyard was given the green signal and INS Vikrant started taking shape.

Says SAIL chairperson, C S Verma: “Our steel costs twice as much as normal steel, but is still half the cost of imported warship steel. As volumes increase, and our production techniques are refined, we hope the cost will come down.”

Today, Bhilai Steel Plant casts warship steel plates of up to 20 millimetres thickness without quenching or tempering, supplying the bulk of the requirement for large warships. But thicker steel plates are also required, albeit in smaller quantities. That is done at the Special Plate Plant (SPP) in Rourkela, which produces plates up to 120 millimetre thick through quenching and tempering.

Special Plate Plant, Rourkela, is emerging as a major special steels centre for defence equipment. It produces armoured plate for the T-90 and Arjun tanks, and the BMP-II infantry combat vehicle, which are built at Avadi and Medak respectively by the Ordnance Factory Board. Its annual capacity of 2,000 tonnes is being upped to 12,000 tonnes.

“(The DRDO’s) research project worth about Rs 4.2 crore has now led to the supply of steel worth about Rs 550 crore,” points out Dr G Malkondaiah, former DMRL Director who oversaw this project closely.

Being used on the INS Vikrant are three special steels — DMR 249A for the hull and body; and DMR 249B, a more resilient steel, which is used for the flight deck that must take the repeated impact of 20-30 tonne fighter aircraft landing. In 2008, DMR Z25 was developed for the floor of compartments that housed heavy equipment like engines and generators. This absorbs the compression and decompression from the heavy equipment.

In the pipeline now is DMR 292A, which will be used for the hull of submarines. This could be used in six conventional submarines that will be built under Project 75I, and in India’s entire fleet of nuclear submarines.
 
.
Liaoning a fabulous make all refitted in China which is now a CV for training

That old rust-bucket.:lol:

Atleast our Admiral Gorshkov was an operationally-serving vessel in Soviet Navy, the Varyag just sat
in the shipyard for decades.

It doesn't have much service life left.

China can only use this ship for training - train all you like. You can even dance and jump on it.
 
. .
there is no change of subject and whole case of launching and sources of claims are contradictory


How much has the Russians supplied?



So it has taken you 4 years to upgrade the technology, correct?



diesel generator - is it imported?
both the gear boxes and diesel generator are the reason for the delay? What is the difference of having the gearbox+diesel generator to get the ironing board floating and its floating without the gearbox and diesels

Of course we can build the CV or CVN on our own, confidently!




So as I asked it takes 4 years to acquire the technology for making better steel, right?
Again did you sue the Russians for non-delivery or have they delivered some to fulfill just part of the contract?



giving a CdG example is not a good excuse for delay. Why are cheerleading indians so lame?

I am sure the French would have grilled their politcians hard then.



because of a low expectation base



Liaoning a fabulous make all refitted in China which is now a CV for training

Any way congrats to all the Indians for the launch of its 1st indigenous AC :D
 
.
That old rust-bucket.:lol:

Atleast our Admiral Gorshkov was an operationally-serving vessel in Soviet Navy, the Varyag just sat
in the shipyard for decades.

It doesn't have much service life left.

China can only use this ship for training - train all you like. You can even dance and jump on it.

Only country in the world to commission an aircraft carrier without the aircraft.
 
.
Ignore the troll

China should speed up aircraft carrier construction: Chinese daily :omghaha:

China should speed up aircraft carrier construction: Chinese daily - The Hindu

"India has moved ahead of us" - China Daily

No one considers the Chinese floating junk as anything respectable.

images



This is how the latest home built chinese aircraft carrier is looking at the moment :D

images
 
.
So, the problem is that you are not able to comprehend the fact that no Russian steel was involved in IAC-1's construction? For as long as you fail to comprehend the truth, and when you finally are able to comprehend it, refuse to accept the truth, you will remain in the delusional state that you
currently are.

it is not a matter of comprehension but a contradiction of information


The defense ministry, navy vice-admirals as well as the shipyard's sources have clarified that IAC-1 is 80-90% indigenous in the floating (hull-fabrication/construction) category,


so the balance of 10~20% are due to imports of Russians steel (the first few batches supplied); the anti-rust paints, epoxy etc
what else?

50% in the propulsion category (which includes gearboxes, power supply units, rudders & propellers),

so are the boilers imported or indigenous? and the insulating materials? what about the elevators, fire extinguishing system, air-con., internal communication systems, speakers, microphones, deck sprinkling system, lighting system and supplies, cctvs,
blast deflecting system, fork-lifts, cranes, carrier traffic and transportation equipment, radar and surveillance etc


the remaining 2 categories i.e. weapons & aircraft compliment and supporting systems (which includes maintenance equipment, fuel, and other stuff) are about 30% indigenous due to imports.

So are the Tejas included in the plan realistically? Or MiG 29K will be the main and only fighterjets on board?

This means that the ship is in the overall 65-70% indigenous. But this is our first home-made ACC so that's okay for now. Things will improve by the time IAC-2 is being built.

When will your second aircraft carrier ready to float like this?

But you will not agree to comprehend these facts, instead you have chosen to live in an alternate reality where you alone assume and comprehend everything as you like - the problem comes when you try to apply the rules of your alternate universe in the real world here.

again it is not an issue with comprehension but the contradictions with facts and information

You will assume the ship was actually built in Russia and silently sneaked into India. Nothing wrong in assuming that way in your alternate universe, but if you try to apply that self-made assumption in the real world, you end up making moot points like the ones you have just made - with nothing to prove except the fact that you are a person living in dream state until yesterday and you have woken up just now.

dont be silly. I have never assume it is built in Russia
I am just all along joking on you guys on a 3/8 completed giant ironing board and the nonsensical celebration for a case of delays and budget over-run and also you can add the elements of indigenuity into it
 
.
@shuttler

What do you mean by ironing board, kid?

If IAC-1 is an ironing board, what are these small pieces of metal that all you Chinese are celebrating so
much about? Nutshells??

1486945-main.jpg


Just a small nutshell to play hockey in, and celebrations & speculations kick off to full steam!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
When INS Vikrant (R11) gave nightmare to Pakistan's Navy! - Oneindia News

When INS Vikrant (R11) gave nightmare to Pakistan's Navy!

> In 1965, Pakistan even claimed that it had sunk the Vikrant. But, at that time, the ship was undergoing some modifications.

Typical Pak response. In 1971 they were winning all the way to ....... until they got defeated :laughcry: Some triumphalism inherited from Arabs/Islamists/turks who incidentally won ALL wars against Israel JUST prior to being trounced.


FYI: I may very soon be banned from ALL forums here as I have already been banned from one and prohibited from reentering another! I suppose truth can sometimes be very very painful
 
.
@shuttler

What do you mean by ironing board, kid?

dont you iron your cloths?

If IAC-1 is an ironing board, what are these small pieces of metal that all you Chinese are celebrating so
much about? Nutshells??

no one will celebration on a 3/8 completion of a vessel like the way cheerleaders do!

Just a small nutshell to play hockey in, and celebrations & speculations kick off to full steam!!

yeah go ahead play even cricket on that gigantic ironing board
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
dont be silly. I have never assume it is built in Russia
I am just all along joking on you guys on a 3/8 completed giant ironing board and the nonsensical celebration for a case of delays and budget over-run and also you can add the elements of indigenuity into it


It is not Joking, you are trying to remind us some thing which we already knew. This Aircraft carrier is a just a training for our ship Industry, the new aircraft carrier which is about to begin very soon is of close to 80000 tons with Nuke power plant.

regarding elevators, lifts,

Washing machines,
aircoolers,
Bath tubs,
plumbing pipes,
kitchen dishes,
spoons,
forks,
knives,
Toliets,
Beds,
bed sheets,
Pillows,
Blankets,
hair combs,
tables,
Chairs,
heaters,
ovens,
refrigerators,
bulbs,
fans,
switches,
mattresses,
stairs,
doors,
windows,
balconies,
radio,
Television,
CD player,
lap tops,
mics,
speakers,
water bottles,
glasses,
alcohols,
Beverages,
dining ware,
sinks,
cup boards,
Barbecue Grills,
Food items,
shoes,
uniforms

etc..etc...used in INS Vikrant , we can make them no need to worry they are indigenous :D
 
.
it is not a matter of comprehension but a contradiction of information

Yes, this is the result of contradicting information - between you're assumptions in the alternate reality, and
the truths available in fact form in the real world. These 2 aspects are contradicting - and you are choosing
to believe in your assumptions rather than the facts available on the world internet and media.

That's what I already said back there, no?

so the balance of 10~20% are due to imports of Russians steel (the first few batches supplied); the anti-rust paints, epoxy etc
what else?

Could be, couldn't be. Maybe it's something else related to hull-fabrication altogether. But there is no
information about this, so I would rather not assume anything out of imagination.

so are the boilers imported or indigenous?

This shows that you don't really know anything about the ship - it has gas turbine engines, not boilers.
They are the LM2500+ high-power turbines from US.

and the insulating materials? what about the elevators, fire extinguishing system, air-con., internal communication systems, speakers, microphones, deck sprinkling system, lighting system and supplies, cctvs,
blast deflecting system, fork-lifts, cranes, carrier traffic and transportation equipment, radar and surveillance etc

Some of the info is available here: INS Vikrant launched | LiveFist

A quote from the above mentioned link: -
The steel has come from SAIL's plants in Raurkela in Orissa, Bokaro in
Jharkand and Bhilai in Chattisgarh; the Main Switch Board, steering gear
and water tight hatches
have been manufactured by Larsen and Toubro in
its plants in Mumbai and Talegaon; the high capacity air conditioning and
refrigeration systems
have been manufactured in Kirloskar's plants in Pune;
most pumps have been supplied by Best and Crompton, Chennai; Bharat
Heavy Engineering Limited (BHEL) is supplying the Integrated Platform
Management System (IPMS)
; the massive gear box is supplied by Elecon in
Gujarat; the tens of thousands of electrical cable is supplied by Nicco industries
in Kokatta; Kolkatta is also where the ship's anchor chain cable is manufactured.

The exact details about the other equipment you have quoted is not known at this point of time. You can
either wait to gain some more info as it comes out, or you can assume what you like to believe right away.
Either way, the truth stays the same - that's what I tried to explain to you.

So are the Tejas included in the plan realistically? Or MiG 29K will be the main and only fighterjets on board?

Navy wants Tejas Mk-2 onboard.

again it is not an issue with comprehension but the contradictions with facts and information

Again, it is a contradiction between the facts and the assumptions of your alternate reality.

dont be silly. I have never assume it is built in Russia
I am just all along joking on you guys on a 3/8 completed giant ironing board and the nonsensical celebration for a case of delays and budget over-run and also you can add the elements of indigenuity into it

I bet that Chinese members will celebrate twice as much when your indigenous carrier, which is now
nothing but a small nutshell, arrives at this stage.

I have seen your members drawing vivid conclusions from nothing but a Google Earth image that shows
a small piece of metal block, which may or may not even belong to the carrier in question.
 
.
Not sure if these have been uploaded before. It seems the hull isn't quite finished.

25_209902_2d84d80a0215dd9.jpg
25_209902_69fb4499a58d3bb.jpg
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom