India lags behind Pakistan in missiles

[Khajur]

BrahMos failed as US shut its eyes in the sky?


Manoj K Das
First Published : 02 Feb 2009 02:11:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 02 Feb 2009 06:59:48 PM ISTKOCHI:


DRDO scientists have launched an investigation into the failure of the BrahMos army version missile, especially why its GPS system couldn’t link onboard computers with hovering satellites eventually crippling its guidance system and keeping it frm achieving mission objectives.


The ambit of the probe will also examine why US satellites blinked during the test window, thereby denying the missile the crucial inputs needed for its guidance.

A primary analysis of the January 20 test has shown that the missile, a special version capable of hitting hidden targets like terrorist camps, performed the flight plan but missed the target. The missile was supposed to hit a rather insignificant target hidden among obstructions at the Pokharan range.

“It had an advance seeker which was to home in on the target using GPS data obtained through US satellites.But it is a mystery why the SCAN technology failed to access the satellites,” said BrahMos sources.

The seeker, an advanced one developed to guide the missile to very insignificant targets, was a success during test flights. The seeker and the new software were tested extensively using fighter aircraft flying at top speeds.

“Once we were confident of their success, we decided to go in for the first test on the missile. But the failure is a mystery,” top sources told to The New Indian Express.The BrahMos special version, in spite of being an Indo-Russian venture, was fully dependent on US satellites. The Russian global positioning network is not usually used by Indian defence agencies for their strategic programmes. “This leads to speculation about why the entire galaxy of US satellites failed to provide signals to the missile. We need to solve the mystery of how the satellites suddenly failed over the Pokharan skies,” sources said.

The probe report is expected by Wednesday and will be submitted to the Defence Minister. Though the failure rattled the Army a bit, sources said its top brass was still for BrahMos missiles. “We will wait for the result of the February 20 tests.

The missile is still the best to hit a defined and designated target like an enemy depot or an airport. The wait-and-watch is only regarding the advanced version of BrahMos,” sources told to The New Indian Express

 

[Pk_Thunder]

I will try to find english version of this ... so kindly just wait please.

Pakistan surges well ahead of India in missile technology​

NEW DELHI, Feb 2 (APP): Pakistan has surged well ahead of India in missile technology as there is only short‑range Prithivi missile which is 100% operational as of now. “Times of India” in its report quoting defence sources said though the 700‑km Agni‑I and 2,000‑km‑plus Agni‑II ballistic missiles are being “inducted” into the armed forces, but it will take time for them to become fully operational.

The Indian forces are still in the process of conducting “training trials” of Agni‑I and Agni‑II to give them the requisite capabilities to fire them on their own.

The Agni‑III, tested successfully only twice in April 2007 and May 2008, will not be ready for induction in the armed forces before 2012.

The design work on Agni‑V, with 5,000‑km range is also in progress.

“We should be ready to test Agni‑V by 2010‑2011,” the daily quoting an official said.

India’s missile report card is rather dismal at present, an expert said and added the strategic missile needs to be tested 10 to 15 times, over a variety of flight envelopes and targets, before it can be said to be fully‑operational. A missile cannot be dubbed ready just after three to four tests, he said.

The daily said the Indian Army has placed orders worth Rs 1,500 crore for 75 Prithvi‑I and 62 Prithvi‑II missiles, while IAF wants 63 Prithvi‑II missiles for over Rs 900 crore.

The Indian navy has ordered Dhanush missiles, the naval version of Prithvi, with a 350 km strike range, for its “dual‑tasked” warships, INS Subhadra and INS Suvarna.

 

[duhastmish]

sir
superbikez- i was not saying that i was quoting from the news paper.

India lags behind Pakistan in missiles-India-The Times of India

With active help from China and North Korea, Pakistan has surged well ahead of India in the missile arena. The only nuclear-capable
ballistic missile in India's arsenal which can be said to be 100% operational as of now is the short-range Prithvi missile.

Though the 700-km Agni-I and 2,000-km-plus Agni-II ballistic missiles are being "inducted" into the armed forces, it will take "some time" for them to become "fully-operational in the numbers required".

Defence sources said the armed forces were still in the process of undertaking the "training trials" of Agni-I and Agni-II to give them the requisite capabilities to fire them on their own.

Of the two, the progress report of Agni-I, tested for the first time in January 2002 to plug the operational gap between Prithvi (150-350 km) and Agni-II missiles, is much better. The Army has already conducted two "user training trials", one in October 2007 and other in March 2008, of the Pakistan-specific Agni-I missile.

The fourth test of 3,500-km Agni-III, which will give India the strategic capability to hit targets deep inside China, is also on the anvil now. But Agni-III, tested successfully only twice in April 2007 and May 2008, will not be ready for induction before 2012.

Then, of course, design work on India's most ambitious strategic missile with near ICBM (intercontinental ballistic missile) capabilities, the 5,000-km range Agni-V, which incorporates a third composite stage in the two-stage Agni-III, is also in progress. "We should be ready to test Agni-V by 2010-2011," said an official.

So, in effect, the missile report card is rather dismal at present. "Unlike Pakistan, our programme is indigenous. But a strategic missile needs to be tested 10 to 15 times, over a variety of flight envelopes and targets, before it can be said to be fully-operational. A missile cannot be dubbed ready just after three to four tests," said an expert.

Keeping this benchmark in mind, only Prithvi can be dubbed to be fully ready. Defence PSUs like Bharat Dynamics Ltd, Bharat Earth Movers Ltd and Mishra Dhatu Nigam Ltd, in fact, are stepping up production of the different Prithvi variants.

Army, for instance, has orders worth Rs 1,500 crore for 75 Prithvi-I and 62 Prithvi-II missiles, while IAF has gone in for 63 Prithvi-II missiles for over Rs 900 crore.

Navy, in turn, has ordered Dhanush missiles, the naval version of Prithvi, with a 350 km strike range, for its "dual-tasked" warships, INS Subhadra and INS Suvarna.

India wants to gatecrash into the very exclusive club of `Big-Five' countries like Russia, US and China, which have both ICBMs (missiles with strike ranges over 5,500-km) and SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles), before 2015.

The SLBM quest is specifically crucial since it's the most effective and secure leg of the "nuclear weapon triad", with land-based missiles and aircraft capable of delivering nuclear bombs constituting the first two components.

The initial range of K-15 SLBM being developed by DRDO will, however, be limited to 750-km, far less than the over 5,000-km range SLBMs brandished by the `Big-5' countries.

The plan is to go for higher strike ranges after the initial K-15 missiles are integrated into the indigenous nuclear-powered submarines being built under the secretive ATV (advanced technology vessel) programme.

 

[metalfalcon]

SIR
i read this news in newspaper about 2 days ago.
this is a true news but - the writer did emphasis on how Indian got its own technology and Pakistan's is developed from china and Korean help but never the less its ahead to Indian missile technology. on many ground Indian only pritvi is in action rest are all in development stage. For now Pakistan is well ahead of Indian missile technology.India is workign and developing but for now indian missile technology is behind.
thankyou.

Whether we got our Missiles from North Korea or China its not the point, The main Point is we have these Missiles and they are better than yours AT THE MOMENT.

In many previous threads All the Indian Members claimed that Indian Missiles were superior and that Pakistani Missiles having an edge over India was just a MYTH .

Why its hard for you to believe that Pakistan can make something like Ghauri or Shaheen on their own even BABUR is PURELY made in Pakistan. Do you think USA gave Tomahawk Missiles to Pakistan if you say BABUR is Tomahawk. I do admit Pakistan got M-11 from China.

Indians really take a very Looooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnggggggg time to accept the reality that someone in some field is better than them.

 

[Hasnain2009]

 

[macintosh]

Indians really take a very Looooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnggggggg time to accept the reality that someone in some field is better than them.

If it makes you happy to read that Pak ,with help from china and north korea, is surging ahead in the Missile technology field, then celebrate. But there is an old saying "never underestimate your foe".

AND DO READ THIS ALSO

India developing indigenous def systems, not importing from Russia

Moscow, Feb 02: India is developing air and missile defence systems indigenously and it may not be interested in the Russian Patriot class S-300 and S-400 anti-ballistic missiles systems, a senior arms exporter said today.

"India is developing its own air and missile defence systems based on the scientific principles of other countries and has gone quite far in this. That's why they are not interested in simple purchases," Vladimir Komardin, Deputy General Director of RosOboronExport state arms exporter, said.

Komardin, who will be leading the Russian delegation at the Aero India-2009 air show at Bangalore on February 11-15, said that India, however, is buying self-propelled "Osa-AKM", "Strela-10" and "Buk" as well as "Tor", "Tunguska" and portable "Igla" missiles for air defence of its armed units.

Speaking at a news conference here, Komardin said India with huge market was a like a "lucrative bride" for Russia and other arms exporting countries.

Responding to a question, he said advanced multirole fighter MiG-35 fielded by Russia in the Indian global tender for the acquisition of 226 fighters has a clear edge over its US rivals F-16 and F-18, which hardly meet the requirements of the 21st century.

Komardin did not rule out that the Government of India could put the fighter tender on back-burner due to global meltdown.

Bureau Report

 

[bushwhacker91]

You all seem so elated, without looking at the intricacies of India's missile programme. India's missile programme is chiefly based on indigineous R&D, and joint ventures. Unlike other countries in the world, India began its missile R&D as late as in the 80s, compared to the Americans who began way back in the 40s. Now you make the assertion that Pakistani missiles are better than Indian. Firstly they are not "Pakistani" missiles, you have hardly deveoped any missile yourself. And if India follows the pakistani policy of merely buying missiles, it would be way ahead as Indias military budget is about 30bn which is nearly 8 times as of Pakistan.

India today has enough nuclear deterance to scare off its enemies. In 2 years time we will be galloping ahead, as many projects in the pipe line will be completed including the ICBM Surya.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh please! Cut the juvenile crap about "India's missile program is indigenous and Pakistan's isn't". Your space program and indirectly your missile program did benefit from inputs from the Soviet Union.

On the Pakistani program, there are multiple threads here where you can read arguments related to how the Shaheen missiles, especially Shaheen 2, do not coincide with any Chinese missile system in existence at the time - the arguments in support of this conclusion are on those threads.

Nor is there any direct correlation with the Babur or Raad and any Chinese missile system. Pakistan had multiple entities working on its Missile program. AQ Khan Lab's produced the Ghauri series, compared to the NK Nodong, whereas the Shaheen was produced by NESCOM.

So once again, this pointless nonsense of 'Indians are indigenous and Pakistan is not' is of no use on this forum. At the end of the day it is operational capability that matters, and Pakistan appears to have more and longer range missiles that are operational and inducted into the ASFC (Army Strategic Force Command) than does India.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, looks like we may have a new customer for our ABM systems. Wonder who?

 

[Super Falcon]

SIR
i read this news in newspaper about 2 days ago.
this is a true news but - the writer did emphasis on how Indian got its own technology and Pakistan's is developed from china and Korean help but never the less its ahead to Indian missile technology. on many ground Indian only pritvi is in action rest are all in development stage. For now Pakistan is well ahead of Indian missile technology.India is workign and developing but for now indian missile technology is behind.
thankyou.

who mad man said you that indian r on their own when we talk about missiles im 100% not even a single missile in your country is 100% indian we know russian engineers are in india to help you out about pak we had AQ khan and some help from china after that help we tottaly built 70% of our missiles are 100% pure pakistani your brhamos cruise missle given by russia and our babur is built by our scientists

 

[paritosh]

dude...
the author of the article did not test these missiles himself/herself now did he?
there is no way pakistan's missile tech is indigenous...or as indigenous as india's...we have our space program ot prove that..we dont hide our failures in the closet...we come out in the open and work to improve them.our space program isn't centred to just launching of single utility-limted use satellites...no country would go that much overborad in providing such alotta tech know-how to us....all the great space agencies of the world accept the genuineness of ISRO...but pakistan would never.
you under-estimate our missile program...and us greatly...but then thats natural...it's part of your govt.s propaganda...we hear what we like....you have always believed paksitan to be a 'smaller but more efficient'....'one pakistani=10 indians'.....'indians dumb hindus',etc...crap which i think is natural for a country to find hope when poised against a bigger(i'l curb the adjectives) enemy...the propaganda gives hope.
whenyou are told that our pilots shocked the usaf pilots in cope-india and red flag you counter by saying that is was a clever ploy by the usaf to get it's funding from the senate...you find excuses to believe that very propaganda.
this report by an indian for an indian newspaper was meant for indians and not pakistanis...surely there must be some logic.
and we can keep on arguing about this...cus there aint a proper way to test the relative competency...unless they are tested against each other..and that only time will tell....and seriously believing that the enemy inspite of being better economically...inspite of having a better global image(having more tech exporting countries i.e)...inspite of being able to design rockets capable of going upto the moon...is a dumbfu*k is not very clever.

 

[bushwhacker91]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh please! Cut the juvenile crap about "India's missile program is indigenous and Pakistan's isn't". Your space program and indirectly your missile program did benefit from inputs from the Soviet Union.

On the Pakistani program, there are multiple threads here where you can read arguments related to how the Shaheen missiles, especially Shaheen 2, do not coincide with any Chinese missile system in existence at the time - the arguments in support of this conclusion are on those threads.

Nor is there any direct correlation with the Babur or Raad and any Chinese missile system. Pakistan had multiple entities working on its Missile program. AQ Khan Lab's produced the Ghauri series, compared to the NK Nodong, whereas the Shaheen was produced by NESCOM.

So once again, this pointless nonsense of 'Indians are indigenous and Pakistan is not' is of no use on this forum. At the end of the day it is operational capability that matters, and Pakistan appears to have more and longer range missiles that are operational and inducted into the ASFC (Army Strategic Force Command) than does India.

Hmm, interesting...well take a look a this.

HERE IS THE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT INDIAN CLAIM
This is from fas.org..feel free to look it up.

Pakistan
1. The strategic competition with India has spurred Pakistani efforts to acquire ballistic missiles, which it claims to have done without assistance. Pakistan's missile industry includes a large solid rocket motor production complex and a ballistic missile test facility. Chinese and more recently North Korea assistance has sustained these efforts. Pakistan's missile effort evidently consists of three components:

a) The short range Hatf-1 and Hatf-2, which are apparently of Pakistani design and construction, were developed by the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO). These missiles seem to have proven a disappointment, due probably in no small measure to their modest range, and do not appear to have entered operational service.

b) The Shaheen series of solid-propellant missiles are imports from China by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC), which is also responsible for Pakistan's plutonium bomb program. The Chinese M-11 missile was obtained from China in the early 1990s, and tested with considerable publicity in mid-1999. The longer range Shaheen-I and Shaheen-II appear to correspond to the Chinese M-9 and DF-15, respectively, and there is presently solid evidence that Pakistan has obtained either missile from Chinese.

c) More recently, the A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories, which is also responsible for Pakistan's uranium bomb program, has imported and tested the North Korean Nodong missile under the name Ghauri. Imports of the longer range Taepodong missiles may also be under consideration.

Designation ------------------------------------ Foreign derivation
Hatf-1
Hatf-2 Shadoz
Shaheen Hatf-3 ? ------------------------------------ PRC M-11
Shaheen-I Hatf-4 ?------------------------------------ PRC M-9
Shaheen-II Hatf-6 ------------------------------------ PRC M-18
Ghauri Hatf-5 ------------------------------------ DPRK ND-1
Ghauri-III Abdali ------------------------------------ DPRK TD-1
Tipu ------------------------------------ DPRK TD-2
Ghaznavi ?,000

Feel free to look up the foreign derivation on google. You wouldnt be surprised to find all this missiles are Chinese.

 

[Jihad]

Why do people disrespect Pakistani scientists by saying that all our missiles are basically Chinese?
I smell jealousy, or a little ego which isn't willing to accept that Pakistan has an advantage over India in atleast one area.

 

[EagleEyes]

The "indigenous" topic is discussed to death many times. There is no conclusive proof that any of the Pakistani missiles except M-11 are imported ballistic missiles from either China or North Korea. According to the CIA intelligence, there were extensive cooperation by Abdul Qadir to help North Korea make its ballistic missiles No-dong series nuclear capable. In return North Korea helped Pakistan with the ballistic missile technology of the No-dong series which was used in the Ghauri Missiles series. In 2007/08, Pakistan further upgraded (exact natures are unknown) its Ghauri III nuclear capable missile. The nuclear series of Ghauri missile by Pakistan, can no where be matched by any ballistic missile program of North Korea. As far as the Shaheen series is concerned FAS has no evidence other than make assumption based on the graphical data (Pictures) provided.

For more info read this article by Usman Ansari at DefenseNews.

Pakistan Pushes To Improve Missile Strike Capability - Defense News

 

[ARSENAL6]

Well, looks like we may have a new customer for our ABM systems. Wonder who?

Who North Korea and whole of the Middleeast ?
Yeah I thought the same with the US Killing the worlds population who are amazingly Innocent.