India burning

[Wood]

That is true in a literal sense but tell me, why should the majority object to "Secular and Socialist republic" ?? I am asking for such a system not only for myself but for the religious majority too. There are problems that every community faces... things like farmer suicides, student suicides and honor killing. I only want India to be a Progressive society.

Indians were (and are) able to tolerate secularism because of the polytheistic nature of Hindu faith. True secularism will require a sense of political maturity in the population that is beyond average Indians at this point. Indians are more civilized than those who wage armed civilian conflicts over tribal and sectarian rivalries, but are no where close to the Scandinavian utopia that you crave for.

 

[Protest_again]

I have written it elsewhere, re-posting here...for Muslims it is like damned if you do, damned if you don't.


This is the main problem and Indian Muslims cannot decipher it, seems as though. The more they adhere to being the 'difference' in India with a different culture, traditions, food, own language, own Muslim customs and above all the religion, the more otherised they become...

It is kind of double edged, the more Indian Muslims starts owing Hindustan, calling it their own country with a Millennium of history of Mughals, from Biryani to Sherwani, from Urdu to Ghazals, from owning Tehzeeb to celebrating Eids, from donning Kameez to Ghararas and loving/caring/owning all the Tehzeeb of Muslim Millennium of Hindustan, and this cultural superiority/traditional difference is the thing why Hindu hatred is showing in full light.

If Muslims of India stops doing, donning, celebrating, owning and relishing all the things mentioned above that make them(Muslims) appear different, and starts living as marginalized and at the fringe, ghettoized second class citizens, like Dalits, Hindus have no qualms about it. It is their owning of India which bothers them.

The reason Hindus will still show hatred to Indian Muslims who shows their complete loyalty to India, which they have to prove time and over again, this is a double jeopardy for them. And Indian Muslims don't understand and realise it...it is not about owning India it is about disowning the Muslim Millenia and India(you are just tenants kind of thought)...this is what I realized and gathered.

You see other minorities understand that this is a Hindu country and would work silently and cohesively with the majority. The 'otherness' is the problem with the muslim community. Majority has assimilated well but some minority still give preference to their muslimness than to Indianness. That is the root cause for the conflict. It is not going to be solved today.

 

[Naofumi]

While you pity the fate of Muslims in non Muslims states, spare a thought for non Muslims in Islamic countries.

Hey, bro that excuse is old. If you want to compare then compare to Turkey, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Albania, Bosnia, Tatarstan etc.

 

[jamahir]

No progressive person would object to it.

As long as one is working for glory of India, even sangh wouldn't object to it.

There you are incorrect. For the Sangh, a patriotic Muslim has to especially curse Pakistan four times a day. That is the Sangh's measure of patriotism.

The Sangh is not really a gentle, Humanist movement to be concerned about Muslims and Christians in India, and others generally outside of India. Not criticizing the US government is OK for the Sangh despite the US government being a neo-imperialist power that has destroyed so many countries around the world.

 

[Protest_again]

I said Sangh

https://twitter.com/x/status/1236338291747643392

I am not sangh.

 

[Naofumi]

I am not sangh.

Then why did you replied?

 

[Protest_again]

There you are incorrect. For the Sangh, a patriotic Muslim has to especially curse Pakistan four times a day. That is the Sangh's measure of patriotism.

The Sangh is not really a gentle, Humanist movement to be concerned about Muslims and Christians in India, and others generally outside of India. Not criticizing the US government is OK for the Sangh despite the US government being a neo-imperialist power that has destroyed so many countries around the world.

I am not an expert on Sangh. But I believe if Sangh or RSS or BJP would ever hate or incite violence on any community for other than justifiable reasons, that would be end of their government.

Take the example of CAA, a common hindu would think that Muslims are fighting for rights of other muslims from islamic countries who separated themselves in 1947. That perception would minimise the sympathy and emboldens the Sangh heavy handedness. I am not saying it is right but telling you as it is.

 

[Naofumi]

I am not an expert on Sangh.

Then go read their history before commenting.

 

[Wood]

Hey, bro that excuse is old. If you want to compare then compare to Turkey, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Albania, Bosnia, Tatarstan etc.

I really do not follow the politics of these countries you have cited. I do not however think that these countries may be significantly better in according minority rights than western countries. On the flip side, there are plenty of other Islamic countries that are not kind to minority faiths. So if you want to objectively measure the fate of Muslim and non Muslims minorities, you should not cherry pick the countries that you want to compare.

 

[Naofumi]

I really do not follow the politics of these countries you have cited. I do not however think that these countries may be significantly better in according minority rights than western countries. On the flip side, there are plenty of other Islamic countries that are not kind to minority faiths. So if you want to objectively measure the fate of Muslim and non Muslims minorities, you should not cherry pick the countries that you want to compare.

So, all your argument rest upon whataboutery?

 

[Wood]

So, all your argument rest upon whataboutery?

Absolutely. It is not a argument to spite or justify the plight of the affected. I merely want to point the way of our world. Not all civilizations are equally civilized, and this argument works both ways.

 

[jamahir]

Indians were (and are) able to tolerate secularism because of the polytheistic nature of Hindu faith.

Then what explains the suicide of Rohith Vemula ??

True secularism will require a sense of political maturity in the population that is beyond average Indians at this point.

Agreed.

The current official Indian model of Secularism is "I will tolerate your religious nonsense as long as you tolerate my religious nonsense".

The basic ideology that should rule supreme should be Humanism / Socialism.

Indians are more civilized than those who wage armed civilian conflicts over tribal and sectarian conflicts

Watch the below vid and then decide if Indians don't or do lend themselves to barbarism :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1234391163479756800

but are no where close to the Scandinavian utopia that you crave for.

Not the Scandinavian model but Libyan + Swiss + Venezuelan + some USSR + even some Chinese ( about the Social Credits system that is being implemented ).

What I desire is Direct Democracy Socialism.

 

[Naofumi]

no, yours are.

Haha, I care only about rights of Indian Muslims, not illegal BD Hindus unlike you.

Indians were (and are) able to tolerate secularism because of the polytheistic nature of Hindu faith.

Nope, It was Nehru, if Savarkar had been in his place, disaster would have taken place.

 

[Protest_again]

Haha, I care only about rights of Indian Muslims, not illegal BD Hindus unlike you.

Its the majority that cares about them. Its the law that was made in Parliament. And how does CAA affects Indian muslims?

 

[SIPRA]

Then why did you replied?

More than 95% of the elite Hindus are Sanghis, as far as Muslims are concerned. It becomes clear even from the scrutiny of the posts by Hindu posters on PDF.