India at Early Stages of Considering Whether it Wants the F-35 Stealth Fighters

[indushek]

The F-35 is basically a joint strike jet. It has a common logistics system and a related operating model in which US institutions are directly or indirectly involved in many phases of the operation of non-US forces, or can indirectly predict their mission profiles. The JSF operating model has the goal of significantly limiting logistics costs for non-US countries, but at the same time, the US has achieved a capability with the new generation of jets that was not available with the previous generation.

Let's say India acquires these aircraft for its air force. The initial cost of the aircraft, training and documentation, infrastructure harmonization, and additional units have been completed, and with billions of dollars and several years of intensive effort, your fleet is get operationally active status: You cannot use this jet against US interests. You can use it in a way that is compatible with US interests. The framework will be determined not by your national interests, but by US regional policies. What I am talking about here in terms of conditions is that India's foreign policy and interests should be in complete alignment with the US.

Thanks for such detailed reply, was afraid of something like this. It's better we don't go for this unless we have no other option, since this basically kills any chance of individuality in policy matters for us.

 

[VkdIndian]

F-35 is unlikely to be considered by India. The current government has gone full bore on indigenisation and has given support to building blocks towards 6th Gen aircraft.

Technologies being developed and expertise gained in LCA MK II and TEDBF is going to be the building blocks towards AMCA. The first iteration may not be as stealthy and as capable. That isn’t expected either and development and improvement can keep going on.

The cost of F-35 is another factor that might be a deterrent. India shouldn’t and wouldn’t spend the kind of money required to acquire and operate these machines.

Generally any military hardware offered by the US is known openly, which has’t happened in this case. Participation of F-35 was probably just a symbolic support to an airshow and US just wanted to display the bonhomie.

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

best option is to make ur own 5th gen like China did. Same applies to Pakistan

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

I don't think flattery will work. Arm twisting however might.

You don't need to flatter or arm twist a slave. US just need to order and Indians will just oblige.

That is how master-slave relationships work.

Amusing to see how Indian slaves are jumping up and down.

1) US will not sell F-35 to any country which operates S-400

2) India declined to provide any information or presentation on F-35 to India let alone make an offer to sell them to India

 

[Ali_Baba]

My friend, if I may, I would like to make two small corrections: First, Turkiye was not a F-35 buyer, but a part of the JSF program with about 10 companies. Even when Turkiye's jets were not delivered, these companies continued to supply subsystems to the program (for both aircrafts and engines) for two more years. In fact, deliveries in the last year were twice as high as in the previous year. The program was expected to provide more than $10 billion to the Turkish aviation industry, and one of the two main non-US maintenance bases for the F-35 jet was to be located in Izmir. Turkiye has only achieved about half of these economic gains and, naturally, the Izmir maintenance base has not become operational. However, this project has been of great support in establishing almost the entire infrastructure in Turkiye, from the production to the operation of this aircraft in connection with the JSF program.

The other issue is the S400-F35 relationship. This is purely a political lever. It is not a technically consistent justification. The planes in question have already been used many times as a hostile power in airspaces protected by the S400. And the fact that India is now officially negotiating shows that US officials recognize that they can be coordinated within the same armed forces in two separate air-tactical control networks, which was the main argument against Turkiye. The Turkish side had previously presented the technical documentation and how the operation would take place to its counterparts with extensive documentation and simulations.

There is currently an election process in our country and one of the main promises of some of the opposition bloc is to buying F-35. In fact, even this shows that the issue is more on the basis of conflict of interest.

In short, India's position vis-à-vis China is seen as valuable to the US and the way forward for the F-35 purchase seems to be open if Indian officials accept "some" US "conditions".

It's not related but if you ask about our situation, we have a big surprise on March 18th.

Nice - i have setup a reminder for 19 Mar 2023

 

[Zhukov]

>>Early Stages
>>of Considering
>>Whether it wants something or not.

Seriously. Could one think of a better title. Next level of cringe

 

[LakeHawk180]

When asked if it would be offered to India, Rear Admiral Michael L. Baker, defence attache at the U.S. embassy in India, said New Delhi was in the "very early stages" of considering whether it wanted the plane.

An IAF spokeperson did not respond to a request for comment on its interest in F-35s.

U.S. tries to woo India away from Russia with display of F-35s, bombers

The United States brought its most advanced fighter jet, the F-35, to India for the first time this week alongside F-16s, Super Hornets and B-1B bombers as Washington looks to woo New Delhi away from its traditional military supplier, Russia.

www.reuters.com

Okay so I’m not sure who is pushing F-35s for India here. Is it the Americans?

 

[datafreak]

Strategic US weapon ecosystem is hazardous to Indian sovereignty, Indian establishment realizes this.

F-35 is unlikely to be considered by India. The current government has gone full bore on indigenisation and has given support to building blocks towards 6th Gen aircraft.

Technologies being developed and expertise gained in LCA MK II and TEDBF is going to be the building blocks towards AMCA. The first iteration may not be as stealthy and as capable. That isn’t expected either and development and improvement can keep going on.

The cost of F-35 is another factor that might be a deterrent. India shouldn’t and wouldn’t spend the kind of money required to acquire and operate these machines.

Generally any military hardware offered by the US is known openly, which has’t happened in this case. Participation of F-35 was probably just a symbolic support to an airshow and US just wanted to display the bonhomie.

AMCA is a medium class jet- same category as Rafale. What will you do to supplement Su 30 in the 5th gen category when they start retiring (First Su 30 came in 1995 BTW)? You need a medium +1 category jet. Su 57 was supposed to be the replacement but the damn thing isn;t coming up to scracth even adecade after it started flying.

There is only one other proven platform in the medium+1 category. That's F 35.
We'll have to suck up to their conditions, pay up and buy it. For whatever it's worth it's a great jet.

They denied the software codes to the British who were the second biggest partners in the program. That will give you an indication of how much 'technology transfer' will happen.
That being said with the operation of the S-400 and the NATO alliance involved in a covert war against Russia means many issues.

They won't give tech transfer. But if they give enough offset agreements- either for F 35 or for other weapons to a good dollar value, it'll still be a good deal.

 

[datafreak]

@Skull and Bones @VkdIndian @Raj-Hindustani

It should be clear now...as far as medium+1 category 5th Gen fighters are concerned, the world has a single vendor situation (Su30 type jets- though F35 is not that much in the 'heavy' cat)

All other projects - AMCA, Tempest, KFX, TFX etc. are medium category jets (Rafale class)

 

[Suriya]

Never ever

US officials are saying that if India requests at the topmost leadership level there’s a very good chance that the US will say yes to F-35: Ajai Shukla


Question: The F-35 made quite a splash landing here on Wednesday. Do you think Lockheed Martin might just offer India the F-35? We’ve got our permissions from the US government. Do you see that as a former Pentagon senior official?



Now that I’m with Boeing, I’m not going to address that question.



Question: It’s a very real possibility.



It was in 2010 also. I mean the F-35s have been in discussions since 2010.



Question: US officials were saying that if India requests the top leadership level there’s a very good chance that the US will say yes to F-35. As someone who was in the Pentagon, would you think that’s a possibility?



Now that I’m with Boeing, I’m not going to address that. And I think you should talk to Lockheed about that.



Question: No, it’s a very real possibility.



It was in 2010 also. I mean, F-35s have been in discussions since 2010.

Q&A: Heidi Grant: President, business development, defense, space & security and government services, Boeing

www.ajaishukla.com

 

[White and Green with M/S]

US officials are saying that if India requests at the topmost leadership level there’s a very good chance that the US will say yes to F-35: Report.

If you select f35 than it will come to India end of this decade or early next decade

 

[Suriya]

If you select f35 than it will come to India end of this decade or early next decade

No, they could send the naval version for INS Vikrant much earliar.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

No, they could send the naval version for INS Vikrant much earliar.

No get a life end of this decade as early as you assume because USN also ordered it in numbers (450+)

 

[datafreak]

No get a life end of this decade as early as you assume because USN also ordered it in numbers (450+)

Not their fault. If India dragged her feet then it's surely not their fault.

No, they could send the naval version for INS Vikrant much earliar.

IN will not order F 35

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

@Skull and Bones @VkdIndian @Raj-Hindustani

It should be clear now...as far as medium+1 category 5th Gen fighters are concerned, the world has a single vendor situation (Su30 type jets- though F35 is not that much in the 'heavy' cat)

All other projects - AMCA, Tempest, KFX, TFX etc. are medium category jets (Rafale class)

You forgot that China have over 200 J-20 Heay weight multi role fighters in the class of F-22.