India and Pakistan need to reunite like Germany and Vietnam: Markandey Katju

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thread cleaned up. Stick to the topic please.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Take a stance, don't jump from point to point. Such boring excuses, you're in South Asia, not Europe. Deal with it. And when you go outside South Asia, your identity is Pakistani, not Italian DNA, German DNA etc...

Also, we have many things in common or loosely related, such as food, dressings, some customs, but then again, there are diversities among Indians too. Even Pakistan is not a homogeneous country which comes to the point, which side of Pakistan you're talking?


If that was true, then there wouldn't be an Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.


Technically, the head of state of Canada is still the Queen of England, right?

The term "South Asia" means nothing. I NEVER EVER said we were Europeans or had European dna............but neither are us Pakistanis indian or have indian dna either. Food means nothing. A lot of White and Black people in the UK eat Pakistani food, doesn't mean to say we have anything in common with them. The ONLY country Pakistan is connecting/integrating with in EVERY sense if the word, is China. So much for "South Asia" then.........

No way.
Speaking from a pure economic perspective.

Three poor countries, becoming united becomes a bigger poor country not to mention the densely populated Bangladesh vis their lack of resources, along with Pakistan, another resource starved, water stressed country. Add to that our own issues with respect to water and resources.

Can you provide evidence or facts to confirm that Pakistan is resource starved? Please post the links here.

 

[Chhatrapati]

The term "South Asia" means nothing. I NEVER EVER said we were Europeans or had European dna............but neither are us Pakistanis indian or have indian dna either. Food means nothing. A lot of White and Black people in the UK eat Pakistani food, doesn't mean to say we have anything in common with them. The ONLY country Pakistan is connecting/integrating with in EVERY sense if the word, is China. So much for "South Asia" then.........

Eating something and having place of origin (for food) is different dude. But who am I talking to, a guy who claimed he are most likely European than South Asian.

Well, the general impression of Islam and Muslim by China is well known, so much for integration.

The Term South Asia which is a factual term for people living in this side and is a term for people from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan etc.. is not based on ethnicity, but geography.

Can you provide evidence or facts to confirm that Pakistan is resource starved? Please post the links here.

Pakistan is one of the most water stressed country in the World. That means, it lacks one of the fundamental resource for human survival, no need to post evidence for something which is already being discussed here.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Eating something and having place of origin (for food) is different dude. But who am I talking to, a guy who claimed he are most likely European than South Asian.

Well, the general impression of Islam and Muslim by China is well known, so much for integration.

The Term South Asia which is a factual term for people living in this side and is a well known term for people from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan etc.. is not based on ethnicity, but geography.

If there was ANY truth in what you say then the Chinese would not have invested in at least $65 billion dollars in Pakistan with many more billions earmarked for further investment in the coming years and decades. Not to mention the Chinese implementing world class infrastructure programs all over Pakistan and doing TOT of advanced weapons systems to Pakistan, too.

"South Asia" is a false term used to justify colonial British rule. NOTHING more.

Eating something and having place of origin (for food) is different dude. But who am I talking to, a guy who claimed he are most likely European than South Asian.

Well, the general impression of Islam and Muslim by China is well known, so much for integration.

The Term South Asia which is a factual term for people living in this side and is a term for people from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan etc.. is not based on ethnicity, but geography.


Pakistan is one of the most water stressed country in the World. That means, it lacks one of the fundamental resource for human survival, no need to post evidence for something which is already being discussed here.

Please provide the evidence. Post your link here. Blabbering something doesn't make it true.

 

[newb3e]

not possible Pakistanis and indians are different follow different religion and culture germans shared same culture and religion and it was easy for them to unite! and freaking baboons are delusional turds!

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Take a stance, don't jump from point to point. Such boring excuses, you're in South Asia, not Europe. Deal with it. And when you go outside South Asia, your identity is Pakistani, not Italian DNA, German DNA etc...

Also, we have many things in common or loosely related, such as food, dressings, some customs, but then again, there are diversities among Indians too. Even Pakistan is not a homogeneous country which comes to the point, which side of Pakistan you're talking?


If that was true, then there wouldn't be an Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.


Technically, the head of state of Canada is still the Queen of England, right?

there would. Iran and Pakistan are very different in terms of Shia sunni split but that doesn’t mean we can’t have good relations. On top of that Iranians themselves are split on wanting a secular country or religious theocracy. Pakistanis don’t want either one. and Afghanistan well no one knows what they want lol.

Yes the queens the figure head. Years ago Canada would just do whatever Britain did. It changed in 1982 with the Canada act.

 

[Nilgiri]

You are not wrong to say that we don't to reunite.

Just like how Syria and pre-2003 Iraq were individual countries but had a common progressive political governing ideology ( the Ba'ath ideology ) so too can India, Pakistan and Bangladesh be individual countries but have the same governing ideology.

The most immediate such progressive ideology can be the "Swaraaj" ideology which is a direct-democracy system followed by the Aam Aadmi Party of India. This ideology is not limited by national borders.

@Nilgiri @padamchen @jbgt90 @Joe Shearer @Levina @Zibago @RealNapster @Mentee @Bilal9 @Moonlight

Katju is a clownish idiot a lot of the time....opens his mouth without stopping to think for just a second a lot of the time.

The cases of Vietnam and Germany (and Korea thats ongoing) are very different to India/Pak/BD.

For starters all of them actually used/use their common country name (Vietnam, Germany, Korea)...and add a prefix/moniker around it...like North/South East/West....or of course officially the communist vs non-commie lingo (simple/federal republic vs "democratic" "peoples" republic etc etc). Another case you can say is China/Taiwan (PRC vs ROC).

Pakistan is not called West India and BD is not called East India for a reason. It was not simply a political splitting (partition), the pain, scars and migraines still lingering are testament to it. I do wish it were the case (simple political split), but its not (reality is what it is)....it goes deeper, a lot lot deeper (and that is a long subject that I don't want to get into yet again...it pains and saddens me to do so). Deeper you go, the more parts of human psyche and emotion you dig into till you hit the bone....at which point like blind moles meeting...mutual annihilation commences (to quote Khrushchev)

That said though, there are some good things that still have panned out despite the sustained lingering issues/chasms.....as bad as we've had it here....just read how the Europeans for example "sorted" things out in the 30 years war (as just one example)...when they were far far more similar on cultural level than compared to the muslim vs Hindu delineation often made in our region.

If India/Pakistan (and then Bangladesh) tore up much more cleanly (without say Kashmir happening or 2-wing "artificial" pakistan happening etc)...we probably would have gotten to much better stage all around now (attitude wise especially)....even with partition happening on the ground like it did....just judging on how we've done pretty ok compared to others. I think that is all too frequently forgotten (what other's near-similar circumstances on close proximity divides suddenly erupting and spreading like wildfire have been like). Deep down we are not really that extremist at core level as many politicians like to think we are.

@Joe Shearer @Desert Fox @M. Sarmad @Psychic @WAJsal @Hell hound @Tps43 @Mentee @I.R.A @padamchen @VCheng

 

[VCheng]

Katju is a clownish idiot a lot of the time....opens his mouth without stopping to think for just a second a lot of the time.

The cases of Vietnam and Germany (and Korea thats ongoing) are very different to India/Pak/BD.

For starters all of them actually used/use their common country name (Vietnam, Germany, Korea)...and add a prefix/moniker around it...like North/South East/West....or of course officially the communist vs non-commie lingo (simple/federal republic vs "democratic" "peoples" republic etc etc). Another case you can say is China/Taiwan (PRC vs ROC).

Pakistan is not called West India and BD is not called East India for a reason. It was not simply a political splitting (partition), the pain, scars and migraines still lingering are testament to it. I do wish it were the case (simple political split), but its not (reality is what it is)....it goes deeper, a lot lot deeper (and that is a long subject that I don't want to get into yet again...it pains and saddens me to do so). Deeper you go, the more parts of human psyche and emotion you dig into till you hit the bone....at which point like blind moles meeting...mutual annihilation commences (to quote Khrushchev)

That said though, there are some good things that still have panned out despite the sustained lingering issues/chasms.....as bad as we've had it here....just read how the Europeans for example "sorted" things out in the 30 years war (as just one example)...when they were far far more similar on cultural level than compared to the muslim vs Hindu delineation often made in our region.

If India/Pakistan (and then Bangladesh) tore up much more cleanly (without say Kashmir happening or 2-wing "artificial" pakistan happening etc)...we probably would have gotten to much better stage all around now (attitude wise especially)....even with partition happening on the ground like it did....just judging on how we've done pretty ok compared to others. I think that is all too frequently forgotten (what other's near-similar circumstances on close proximity divides suddenly erupting and spreading like wildfire have been like). Deep down we are not really that extremist at core level as many politicians like to think we are.

@Joe Shearer @Desert Fox @M. Sarmad @Psychic @WAJsal @Hell hound @Tps43 @Mentee @I.R.A @padamchen @VCheng

While it is important to remember history in how each country got to where it finds itself, I would prefer to concentrate on how and where they go next, not where have been.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

"Do you want a rich England under Germany, or a poor England independent?" - Jinnah (Hector Bolitho, Dialogue with a Giant)

 

[Yankee-stani]

Well if you want more inter-community rioting, and frankly a mismanaged democracy plus a occasional civil war once every few decades then do it

 

[Nilgiri]

"Do you want a rich England under Germany, or a poor England independent?" - Jinnah (Hector Bolitho, Dialogue with a Giant)

Would you rather die on your feet or live on your knees? - Zapata

 

[Pakistani E]

“Pakistan is a fake, artificial country.”

Nations, Countries and Civilizations rise and fall all the time. I just find it amusing when people, especially some Indians and Afghans, bleat on about how Pakistan is a "fake" country.

Every country in the world is in a sense "fake". They're simply lines drawn on artificial borders, backed by a "state" that can enforce it. And more importantly, as long as there are people who believe themselves to be a part of this state, whether physically or in spirit, that state will exist.

The Indians who dream about this Akhand Bharat are oddly silent on Bangladesh's supposed reunification with India. If you truly believe everyone in the subcontinent to be "Indian", why didn't the Bangladeshis join up with you again in 71?

The term "South Asia" means nothing. I NEVER EVER said we were Europeans or had European dna............but neither are us Pakistanis indian or have indian dna either. Food means nothing. A lot of White and Black people in the UK eat Pakistani food, doesn't mean to say we have anything in common with them. The ONLY country Pakistan is connecting/integrating with in EVERY sense if the word, is China. So much for "South Asia" then.........

Even then, this argument doesn't make any sense. Sharing DNA, or skin colour with someone else doesn't mean you dissolve your own state and nation. Are all White people one giant blob of people without any differences amongst themselves? Call an Englishman the same as a Russian, and you will receive your answer.

What about the South American states? They have the same religion, language, culture and even same founding father. Why don't they follow the Indian logic on what constitutes a nation and join up together in one blob?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Would you rather die on your feet or live on your knees? - Zapata

Death for a Muslim is the Sheb-i Arus (The Wedding Night).....

If to die then die like a Man....

 

[Nilgiri]

Nations, Countries and Civilizations rise and fall all the time. I just find it amusing when people, especially some Indians and Afghans, bleat on about how Pakistan is a "fake" country.

Every country in the world is in a sense "fake". They're simply lines drawn on artificial borders, backed by a "state" that can enforce it. And more importantly, as long as there are people who believe themselves to be a part of this state, whether physically or in spirit, that state will exist.

The Indians who dream about this Akhand Bharat are oddly silent on Bangladesh's supposed reunification with India. If you truly believe everyone in the subcontinent to be "Indian", why didn't the Bangladeshis join up with you again in 71?



Even then, this argument doesn't make any sense. Sharing DNA, or skin colour with someone else doesn't mean you dissolve your own state and nation. Are all White people one giant blob of people without any differences amongst themselves? Call an Englishman the same as a Russian, and you will receive your answer.

What about the South American states? They have the same religion, language, culture and even same founding father. Why don't they follow the Indian logic on what constitutes a nation and join up together in one blob?

And he is saying Pakistan is integrating/connecting with China in every sense of the word. Erm WTF....no its not....not even close. A chinese person sticks out in Pakistan and vice versa...and on average they have very different culture/outlook/priorities etc, its the plain truth. Those have to be lot more similar for any actual integrating/connecting to happen at any appreciable intrinsic level.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Pakistan’s future lies in Afghanistan, not India.

We share many similarities, and after the fall of Kabul government, it will be a honeymoon between the two of us.

India will just drag its feet like an unwanted guest.