India alone has the potential to defeat China in a war, argues Subramanian Swamy | ThinkEdu 2022

[GamoAccu]

You do realise the implications of what you are saying; that, in short, two groups of people came to blows, and one set suffered severe injuries, while the others were completely untouched. It might seem to a neutral observer that all of one side were wearing Superman and Batman costumes. I am sorry but this lacks even superficial credibility.


Fascinating.

I note the implication that this is an Indian activity and not a practice followed by anyone else.

An interesting implication.


There is a distinction between the political network used by one Indian political party, and whose ramifications and content have been thoroughly exposed and understood everywhere. Neither the EU nor any other body has suggested that this political campaign has been extended to the country's narrative.

Unlike the People's Republic of China, and its proprietary relationship with the People's Liberation Army, the Indian Army is an independent body not linked to the current ruling party at the centre, and has no obligation to conform to its propaganda requirements. When we consider what is fact and what is fiction in these accounts, that factor might be useful to bear in mind.


I note that you have repeated that conclusion a number of times. Repetition does not strengthen a claim, it merely reiterates it.

Food for thought. China could have live broadcasted all surrendered and captured Indian soldiers to world but it didn't. Do you ever wonder why it didn't choose to humiliate India?

 

[serenity]

You do realise the implications of what you are saying; that, in short, two groups of people came to blows, and one set suffered severe injuries, while the others were completely untouched. It might seem to a neutral observer that all of one side were wearing Superman and Batman costumes. I am sorry but this lacks even superficial credibility.

They weren't untouched. The PLA had better equipment and organization. They were reinforced when they probably saw the Indians coming on surveillance drones and satellite.

The PLA had lots of riot gear (similar to Indians) and other weapons (not small arms) the Indians at most had metal sticks (which do nothing much to riot gear).

The PLA had 5 KIA in total (at least 2 or 3 from this event) and most likely also heaps of injuries.

The Indian deaths mostly were from running away and dying from exposure or freezing river, not from being killed.

Only a handful of Indians probably at most died from the fighting. This is similar to Chinese side. Not all 20 or 40 or whatever Indians were from being killed. This is an important note because it explains and answers your question here.

It wasn't superman vs humans it was humans vs humans and then Indian command and structure fell apart, Indians ran off and many died from exposure and freezing river. It wasn't 100 PLA superman killed 20+ Indians out of 100+ Indians. But even that isn't impossible if the right equipment was used.

Fascinating.

I note the implication that this is an Indian activity and not a practice followed by anyone else.

An interesting implication.


There is a distinction between the political network used by one Indian political party, and whose ramifications and content have been thoroughly exposed and understood everywhere. Neither the EU nor any other body has suggested that this political campaign has been extended to the country's narrative.

Unlike the People's Republic of China, and its proprietary relationship with the People's Liberation Army, the Indian Army is an independent body not linked to the current ruling party at the centre, and has no obligation to conform to its propaganda requirements. When we consider what is fact and what is fiction in these accounts, that factor might be useful to bear in mind.


I note that you have repeated that conclusion a number of times. Repetition does not strengthen a claim, it merely reiterates it.

Well then it has to be asked why Indian gov tacitly agreed with what it understands is the truth but disagree very vocally and bravely with the land claims stuff. Whenever it knows the truth it doesn't challenge what is said by China and the Indian military and gov use roundabout ways through their influence in Indian media to propagate stuff they cannot say directly because they know is untrue and this way they can always just brush it off as "well Indian media said that not me".

Anyway this conversation is getting way off topic.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Where is his credibility. Anyone can say anything online doesn't make it true. Where are the photos/videos and the social media posts. This guy can't even read Chinese too. It's a one man operation and he has no established contacts. He doesn't say much about his sources except "social media" like lol that's not how it works at all. He can't read, he doesn't have sources.

Again, you seem to think that ignoring whatever has been stated earlier deletes the facts and reinforces your case.

It has been clearly stated that:

* These are not due to his research;
* There was a separate team, who refuse to be identified for obvious reasons;
* They analysed a lot of posts, and had noticed the progressive deletion of posts;

Now we have a flat denial that any research was undertaken, that any posts existed, and that there is any possibility that more than one person was involved.

It is of course entirely up to you to believe whatever you wish to believe, and entirely up to others to do likewise. If we have no agreement on the bare facts, there can hardly be any further discussion, as you seem intent on insisting that your point of view must prevail.

They weren't untouched. The PLA had better equipment and organization. They were reinforced when they probably saw the Indians coming on surveillance drones and satellite.

Tell me, does this not seem hollow, even to you?

 

[serenity]

That is not correct, on two counts. India was not intent on capturing land in the scuffle; you have inadvertently blurted out the truth, that one side was from the outset determined to subvert the agreement to resolve problems through discussion, and the other side was seeking to return to the discussion mode that had been agreed.

Well you may think it wasn't.

Nope. Indians went into no mans land in middle. China responded and also did the same. Indians attacked a Chinese position that night in June 2020 thinking it was not well defended. Is this event impossible?

India to this day is probably still inside no man's land section. Only Galwan bits, Pangong fingers, and some other stretches possibly have become buffers at China's behest. During negotiations the offer from China was disengagement of PLA from no man's land in exchange for India agreeing to buffers along those areas. Some Indian camps are still within the disputed land.

You guys are desperate to angle this as Chinese aggression. Again this is what you believe but not necessarily what is truth.

Regarding capturing PLA soldiers, as you are very well informed, you are surely aware that the return of detained Chinese soldiers was widely reported.

You mean from June 2020? I do not think so. You're now switching to other events where scouts get caught and returned. This happens on both sides. I'm talking about June 2020 fight. No Chinese soldiers were captured.

Perhaps it was lack of photographic and other judicial evidence that deters you from remembering or reporting this.


Yes, I am. What seems to be the difficulty? I am sorry that you seem to be getting angry.


Where is the evidence that there was no such post?
What evidence on the ground other than carefully staged photographs showing the side favourable to one account is there?

Well where's India's evidence that makes it look good? If it has any it would show. Why? Because it shows the footage of Indian group beating up one PLA and India keeps editing that single video so it seems like it has more lol. Pathetic.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The PLA had lots of riot gear (similar to Indians) and other weapons (not small arms) the Indians at most had metal sticks (which do nothing much to riot gear).

Again, I am sad that you continue to let yourself down repeatedly.

Does this not show premeditation?

 

[serenity]

Again, you seem to think that ignoring whatever has been stated earlier deletes the facts and reinforces your case.

It has been clearly stated that:

* These are not due to his research;
* There was a separate team, who refuse to be identified for obvious reasons;
* They analysed a lot of posts, and had noticed the progressive deletion of posts;

Now we have a flat denial that any research was undertaken, that any posts existed, and that there is any possibility that more than one person was involved.

It is of course entirely up to you to believe whatever you wish to believe, and entirely up to others to do likewise. If we have no agreement on the bare facts, there can hardly be any further discussion, as you seem intent on insisting that your point of view must prevail.

Sorry but Klaxon claims are just claims. You want them to be true because it makes you feel good. Where is even any suggestion or hint of evidence?

You're arguing this through twisting stuff and attacking words and meaning.

It is up to you to believe Klaxon. That's why India paid so many publications to write about fantasy... so you guys feel better.

Tell me, does this not seem hollow, even to you?

I explained PLA weren't untouched. Had some out of 5 KIA due to the fighting and many injured. Indian had a few KIA and many injured. This seems realistic doesn't it?

You're saying PLA killed 20 Indians (at least) and this is impossible without PLA suffering 20 KIA. This is a problem with your logic and your ignoring the fact that PLA didn't kill 20 Indians but Indians ran off and died from drowning and exposure as well as KIA. The balance in numbers we don't know.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The PLA had 5 KIA in total (at least 2 or 3 from this event) and most likely also heaps of injuries.

That is nothing but the repetition of the original PLA claim. If there is nothing that you have to add to it, what is the point of repeating it? Does this add to the credibility of that claim?

The Indian deaths mostly were from running away and dying from exposure or freezing river, not from being killed.

I put it to you that in the dark, on a high bluff, that one side should consistently lose its footing and fall into the river, and the other side should as consistently remain intact, is nothing short of miraculous.

 

[GamoAccu]

Again, I am sad that you continue to let yourself down repeatedly.

Does this not show premeditation?

Can you Indians provide some actual EVIDENCES and not claims?

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

When China breaches India North East, wherever the PLA goes, a new republic will be founded breaking away from British imposed land borders. China is literally able to liberate Indian serfs from the minority high castes.

A new republic has already been founded. The republic has its own currency, diplomatic ties, military and economy

 

[serenity]

Again, I am sad that you continue to let yourself down repeatedly.

Does this not show premeditation?

It could but explain to me why if this is premeditation, India had hundreds of equipped and armed men.

Why is it impossible according to you that a group of over 100 Indians attacked a Chinese position they thought was undefended and weak but got reinforced. How is this an impossible event?

You must have it your way where it's Chinese attacking Indians. Quite strange for China to attack a massive Indian position armed with all the equipment they could have.

 

[GamoAccu]

That is nothing but the repetition of the original PLA claim. If there is nothing that you have to add to it, what is the point of repeating it? Does this add to the credibility of that claim?


I put it to you that in the dark, on a high bluff, that one side should consistently lose its footing and fall into the river, and the other side should as consistently remain intact, is nothing short of miraculous.

Do you believe these are Pakistani actors?

 

[serenity]

A new republic has already been founded. The republic has its own currency, diplomatic ties, military and economy

View attachment 822497

lol classic diversion.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Only a handful of Indians probably at most died from the fighting. This is similar to Chinese side. Not all 20 or 40 or whatever Indians were from being killed. This is an important note because it explains and answers your question here.

Sadly, the accounts printed immediately afterwards mentioned that bodies recovered included Chinese soldiers, and that these were returned.

This is not unique to this incident. It has been done many times before. We do not dishonour the dead. It is important to remember that, since this is not a practice followed by everybody.

 

[serenity]

Do you believe these are Pakistani actors?

View attachment 822499

They also said Indian pilots don't have beards or moustaches like Abhinandan's and then it was proven they do. Here Sikhs have long hair.

Sadly, the accounts printed immediately afterwards mentioned that bodies recovered included Chinese soldiers, and that these were returned.

This is not unique to this incident. It has been done many times before. We do not dishonour the dead. It is important to remember that, since this is not a practice followed by everybody.

When did Indian gov say that? Or Chinese gov. Chinese gov said 4 KIA when the negotiations for buffer ended and then 5 KIA when another succumbed to injuries.

You make up dead and make up numbers and then claim we dishonor them for not admitting.

That's like Russia claiming they killed 10000 USA soldiers in Syria in clashes and the USA hides it and dishonor their dead for not admitting it. It's ridiculous and pretty pathetic.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It wasn't superman vs humans it was humans vs humans and then Indian command and structure fell apart, Indians ran off and many died from exposure and freezing river. It wasn't 100 PLA superman killed 20+ Indians out of 100+ Indians. But even that isn't impossible if the right equipment was used.

Again, sadly, this does indicate premeditation on one side. To talk of command and structure in a mob riot, rather than a battle that soldiers fight, could evoke ridicule and condescending humour, if it were not for the deaths involved.

Right equipment? We do not send out our soldiers with barbed wire wrapped clubs.

Well then it has to be asked why Indian gov tacitly agreed with what it understands is the truth but disagree very vocally and bravely with the land claims stuff.

Could you explain that? As English is not my first language, I was unable to even comprehend this sentence. What tacit agreement are you referring to? And what is the problem with the land claims?

Well then it has to be asked why Indian gov tacitly agreed with what it understands is the truth but disagree very vocally and bravely with the land claims stuff.

Could you explain that? As English is not my first language, I was unable to even comprehend this sentence. What tacit agreement are you referring to? And what is the problem with the land claims?

Whenever it knows the truth it doesn't challenge what is said by China and the Indian military and gov use roundabout ways through their influence in Indian media to propagate stuff they cannot say directly because they know is untrue and this way they can always just brush it off as "well Indian media said that not me".

It is difficult to fit your general summary with specific facts. If I were to make similar insulting remarks, it is unlikely that you would feel good about it. However, we must each stick to our individual principles.

Anyway this conversation is getting way off topic.

In the spirit of the conversation itself, do you remember who started it?