India alone has the potential to defeat China in a war, argues Subramanian Swamy | ThinkEdu 2022

[Joe Shearer]

Here you go.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1449038024415789058

I've read the analysis of the Australians so this does not particularly impress me.

 

[serenity]

I've read the analysis of the Australians so this does not particularly impress me.

You read one Australian random guy starting his own conspiracy media publication and he used Indian sources for "information".

Facts are China showed a dozen of visual evidence.

India showed one video which an Indian in page 1 showed. It is from March or April 2020 and edited to delete embarrassing parts for India.

The full Indian video shows a group of Indians beating up a single PLA soldier who exited his armored vehicle. The armored vehicle is shown nearby and some Indian go up to it with metal sticks and try to damage it but could do nothing. This video of Indian group beating one single PLA who exited his vehicle to talk is ALL india has and all india desperately keeps showing. Often editing so it's closeup only.

Meanwhile India only has this one thing is tries to edit into different forms so Indian egos can be stroked.

China showed a dozen photos and videos. All showing different Indians subdued, tied up, seated, their guns being collected from surrendered Indians etc etc.

In response, India and Modi just want to talk and get people to write things.

This doesn't mean anything because anyone can write anything. It doesn't make it true.

What both sides acknowledge directly said and tacitly agreed is that China lost 4 to 5 PLA in total and India lost 20.

PLA had no soldiers captured and returned by India while India had undisclosed numbers of soldiers captured and returned by China.

Make up your conclusions as you will but Indians want to desperately cling onto a few articles saying "Chyna suffered huge losses at the hands of Indians... according to India". Well that's for delusional people to choose if they just cannot take the truths.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You read one Australian random guy starting his own conspiracy media publication and he used Indian sources for "information".

I believe not.
They are reporting analysis of Chinese social media posts. The report did not even mention Indian sources.

Facts are China showed a dozen of visual evidence.

I am not sure what that proves, other than that there were cameras and photographers in enough numbers, almost as if they were expecting to photograph an event carefully planned.

It is not to be expected that they would show photographs that disprove their own claims.

It is also not to be expected that one side plans an event on an unsuspecting other side, and that the unsuspecting party would prepare themselves for presenting photographic evidence.

India showed one video which an Indian in page 1 showed. It is from March or April 2020 and edited to delete embarrassing parts for India.

I have already stated what I believe this shows.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The full Indian video shows a group of Indians beating up a single PLA soldier who exited his armored vehicle. The armored vehicle is shown nearby and some Indian go up to it with metal sticks and try to damage it but could do nothing. This video of Indian group beating one single PLA who exited his vehicle to talk is ALL india has and all india desperately keeps showing. Often editing so it's closeup only.

In essence, there are many photographs suggesting a one-sided Chinese predominance, and none suggesting any equality.

Is there any additional factor that contradicts what I had stated already, that clearly one side was expecting events to take place, and the other was not; and that the initiating side was ready and prepared to create a photographic propaganda event, while the reacting side was under the mistaken impression that the complications would be resolved by discussions?

The last few sentences make the same point over and over again. Nothing new has been stated to call for additional comment.

 

[serenity]

I've read the analysis of the Australians so this does not particularly impress me.

I believe not.
They are reporting analysis of Chinese social media posts. The report did not even mention Indian sources.

But you should realize and admit that that "report" is a one man blog publication and has no credibility. He is a random self declared "journalist" in Australia with no contacts in any military or intelligence.

He said he used Chinese social media posts but does not know Chinese and he also lied about that because there were no social media posts saying that dozens of Chinese were killed and ran away from battle. This happened to the Indians where 20 Indians (at least) ran from the battle and died/killed. This is officially said by both sides that 20 Indians (at least) were KIA. With Chinese side saying they were not killed but died from exposure after running away in the night and falling into the freezing river or from exposure and injuries from the fighting.

From the images and videos China revealed, you can see some Indians had serious injuries and it's understandable some succumbed to injuries during the night if they ran off and were out of reach/rescue. The ones who stayed were photographed, disarmed, and returned.

India has a program of paying money to any foreign journalist or small time random publication house and Indian government sends them material to write about and what to say, sometimes even the entire article already written just so they can publish it.

This network is part of India's fake news network which even the EU has exposed and talked about at least a tiny bit.

It is to sway political opinion and a way for India to perform cycled "news" so they can quote each other and being foreign sort of lends credibility. But in this case, none of India's claims add up.

India didn't capture land in the fight and didn't capture a single PLA soldier to return on following days. China held onto the part the Indians came to attack, killed the commander, captured all the officers who were returned days after instead of following day. And gave photos and videos which Indian government again tacitly admits is real with their silence. If they were all faked it would be a huge international incident. But the truth is there are hundreds more visual evidence not released and shown to Indians. Indians after making more fake news about PLA attack at Arunachal Pradesh, immediately shut up after talks and those images were released by China.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Meanwhile India only has this one thing is tries to edit into different forms so Indian egos can be stroked.

China showed a dozen photos and videos. All showing different Indians subdued, tied up, seated, their guns being collected from surrendered Indians etc etc.

Quite so.

Anything new that has come to mind? Please feel free to share it with us, as we have already understood that China has shown many photographs - taken in the middle of an unsuspected outbreak of violence, but with sufficient quantity to suit the propaganda mill.

But you should realize and admit that that "report" is a one man blog publication and has no credibility. He is a random self declared "journalist" in Australia with no contacts in any military or intelligence.

That is not at all the impression gathered, I regret to say. A one man blog might report what a whole team has prepared, and that is what is stated.

Other than the fact that it is not flattering to the Chinese side, there is nothing that diminishes the credibility of this blog.

 

[serenity]

In essence, there are many photographs suggesting a one-sided Chinese predominance, and none suggesting any equality.

Is there any additional factor that contradicts what I had stated already, that clearly one side was expecting events to take place, and the other was not; and that the initiating side was ready and prepared to create a photographic propaganda event, while the reacting side was under the mistaken impression that the complications would be resolved by discussions?

The last few sentences make the same point over and over again. Nothing new has been stated to call for additional comment.

These details we wont know but this wasn't one sided.

If it was how did the Chinese capture over 100 Indians?

Chinese captured dozens of INSAS rifles. Around one INSAS rifle armed for every 20 or so Indians based on photos from other contacts and disucssions and those meetups.

Indians attacked a Chinese position with a lot of men. They thought a building site was not defended and wanted to attack it and sent over 100 men. How else would so many Indians have been captured it took many trucks load to return them?

So we can only speculate on this and what happened. Clearly Chinese have drones and satellites observing and heat signatures indicated a huge group of Indians which may have been why the Chinese side was prepared and reinforced it quickly.

Quite so.

Anything new that has come to mind? Please feel free to share it with us, as we have already understood that China has shown many photographs - taken in the middle of an unsuspected outbreak of violence, but with sufficient quantity to suit the propaganda mill.


That is not at all the impression gathered, I regret to say. A one man blog might report what a whole team has prepared, and that is what is stated.

Other than the fact that it is not flattering to the Chinese side, there is nothing that diminishes the credibility of this blog.

Credibility is established not assumed.

Your one man blog simply wrote something that Indians desperately want to hear.

He has given zero evidence. Zero photos, zero blog and social media posts which he says he got, zero sources shown. Where is the credibility?

Indians like I said have a network of foreign fake news either through totally faked news publications, or by paying small timers to write and publish things that Indian state tell them to or supplies the articles directly.

So basically China side has real evidence and on the ground realities that agree with what it's saying and what the only available evidence shows.

Indians doctored one video of them beating up a PLA soldier and presented that as evidence for "heaps of Chinese killed by Indians" which simply is not true. There has been zero evidence and both sides deny more than 5 PLA were killed in total throughout the entire year of clashes. Those 5 include the injury and PLA soldier attacked by the Indian group.

If India had visual India would show it.

India showed heaps of visuals of their Mig-21 when they said it was Paksitani F-16. India showed the PLA soldier being beaten up and keep editing it so it looks like different video and photos. India is desperate for visuals and clearly shows what they have. But they only have one video and even that one first came out in March 2020 rather than the June 2020 fight.

 

[Joe Shearer]

He said he used Chinese social media posts but does not know Chinese and he also lied about that because there were no social media posts saying that dozens of Chinese were killed and ran away from battle. This happened to the Indians where 20 Indians (at least) ran from the battle and died/killed. This is officially said by both sides that 20 Indians (at least) were KIA. With Chinese side saying they were not killed but died from exposure after running away in the night and falling into the freezing river or from exposure and injuries from the fighting.

I am sorry, we seem to be talking about different matters, different people and different accounts.The report said that Chinese social media accounts were analysed by a team, never that the author of the report had done so himself. It is also his statement against yours that there were no social media posts of the sort that is mentioned. I am perfectly willing to believe that no such posts came to your notice, but it is difficult to understand how it can be guaranteed that no such posts appeared.

 

[GamoAccu]

I've read the analysis of the Australians so this does not particularly impress me.

Analysis? you mean 1 man blogger site. Nobody have heard of The Klaxon until the Indians promoting it. Is that site Reuters, CNN, BBC, France 24, AP NEWS ,etc? How did you even to earn the title "Professional" ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

This happened to the Indians where 20 Indians (at least) ran from the battle and died/killed.

Sadly, once again, this is an unsupported statement. There is no evidence other than unilateral statements from one side.

This is officially said by both sides that 20 Indians (at least) were KIA.

Yes, it was so said, and only shows that one side was telling the truth about itself.

With Chinese side saying they were not killed but died from exposure after running away in the night and falling into the freezing river or from exposure and injuries from the fighting.

The Indian account was identical. What gives the Chinese narrative such distinction and authenticity?

 

[GamoAccu]

Sadly, once again, this is an unsupported statement. There is no evidence other than unilateral statements from one side.


Yes, it was so said, and only shows that one side was telling the truth about itself.

Asian age news media reported India lost 40+ soldiers. They are more credible than your B.S The Klaxon blogger site.

Chinese intrusions and India's limited options

Reliable military and intelligence sources now say that the death toll of Indian soldiers is higher and could be more than 40 soldiers

www.asianage.com

 

[Joe Shearer]

From the images and videos China revealed, you can see some Indians had serious injuries and it's understandable some succumbed to injuries during the night if they ran off and were out of reach/rescue. The ones who stayed were photographed, disarmed, and returned.

You do realise the implications of what you are saying; that, in short, two groups of people came to blows, and one set suffered severe injuries, while the others were completely untouched. It might seem to a neutral observer that all of one side were wearing Superman and Batman costumes. I am sorry but this lacks even superficial credibility.

India has a program of paying money to any foreign journalist or small time random publication house and Indian government sends them material to write about and what to say, sometimes even the entire article already written just so they can publish it.

Fascinating.

I note the implication that this is an Indian activity and not a practice followed by anyone else.

An interesting implication.

This network is part of India's fake news network which even the EU has exposed and talked about at least a tiny bit.

There is a distinction between the political network used by one Indian political party, and whose ramifications and content have been thoroughly exposed and understood everywhere. Neither the EU nor any other body has suggested that this political campaign has been extended to the country's narrative.

Unlike the People's Republic of China, and its proprietary relationship with the People's Liberation Army, the Indian Army is an independent body not linked to the current ruling party at the centre, and has no obligation to conform to its propaganda requirements. When we consider what is fact and what is fiction in these accounts, that factor might be useful to bear in mind.

It is to sway political opinion and a way for India to perform cycled "news" so they can quote each other and being foreign sort of lends credibility. But in this case, none of India's claims add up.

I note that you have repeated that conclusion a number of times. Repetition does not strengthen a claim, it merely reiterates it.

 

[serenity]

I am sorry, we seem to be talking about different matters, different people and different accounts.The report said that Chinese social media accounts were analysed by a team, never that the author of the report had done so himself. It is also his statement against yours that there were no social media posts of the sort that is mentioned. I am perfectly willing to believe that no such posts came to your notice, but it is difficult to understand how it can be guaranteed that no such posts appeared.

It is the Klaxon blog you are quoting here.

Come on... like get real man.

The guy didn't see any Chinese social media accounts saying a bunch of PLA ran off from the fight. Where is the evidence for that one the ground where in fact this is true for Indians.

Where is his credibility. Anyone can say anything online doesn't make it true. Where are the photos/videos and the social media posts. This guy can't even read Chinese too. It's a one man operation and he has no established contacts. He doesn't say much about his sources except "social media" like lol that's not how it works at all. He can't read, he doesn't have sources.

Honestly... grasping at straws.

I am willing to bet he even got paid by Indians to write this. I know journalists personally who get paid by Indian government to publish articles under their name an in small time publications.

 

[Leishangthem]

I believe not.
They are reporting analysis of Chinese social media posts. The report did not even mention Indian sources.


I am not sure what that proves, other than that there were cameras and photographers in enough numbers, almost as if they were expecting to photograph an event carefully planned.

It is not to be expected that they would show photographs that disprove their own claims.

It is also not to be expected that one side plans an event on an unsuspecting other side, and that the unsuspecting party would prepare themselves for presenting photographic evidence.


I have already stated what I believe this shows.

what this so-called analysis based on" Chinese social media"? is this some kind of new unknown advanced technique thaT only engrosses high l Q Indians ? what kind of research technique is this that none other knows?

\

That is not at all the impression gathered, I regret to say. A one man blog might report what a whole team has prepared, and that is what is stated.

Other than the fact that it is not flattering to the Chinese side, there is nothing that diminishes the credibility of this blog.

Who was the other person in the so called team?

what method of "analysis technique" did they use ? please explain the method of analysis which u find so credible.

The actual data used? ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

India didn't capture land in the fight and didn't capture a single PLA soldier to return on following days.

That is not correct, on two counts. India was not intent on capturing land in the scuffle; you have inadvertently blurted out the truth, that one side was from the outset determined to subvert the agreement to resolve problems through discussion, and the other side was seeking to return to the discussion mode that had been agreed.

Regarding capturing PLA soldiers, as you are very well informed, you are surely aware that the return of detained Chinese soldiers was widely reported.

Perhaps it was lack of photographic and other judicial evidence that deters you from remembering or reporting this.

It is the Klaxon blog you are quoting here.

Come on... like get real man.

Yes, I am. What seems to be the difficulty? I am sorry that you seem to be getting angry.

The guy didn't see any Chinese social media accounts saying a bunch of PLA ran off from the fight. Where is the evidence for that one the ground where in fact this is true for Indians.

Where is the evidence that there was no such post?
What evidence on the ground other than carefully staged photographs showing the side favourable to one account is there?