In favor of Hindutva; by a Pakistani muslim

[Clutch]

I agree and second your idea of India be declared a Hindu country...

India in all practical purpose is a Hindu country, not possible for a secular country to vote extremist BJP and Modi to power.

By constitution though India is a secular country, and constitution cannot change the hearts and minds of people, a large population of India want India to be a Hindu Rashtra.

This will end the double standards and hypocrisy now seen in India, a Hindu country with a secular constitution.

It will be good for Pakistan, Indian ideologue that since India is secular and that there are 200 million muslims in India, than why a separate Muslim nation Pakistan was needed, and the reason India never accepted Pakistan...that will be quashed.

It will give weight and authenticity to the two nation theory....lots of good points for Pakistan and India too.

Hindus will get a sense of pride and ownership, now liberal/westernised Hindus mocks and ridicule the fundamentalist Hindus...and they were made to feel inferior with an inferior, superstitious religion according to them...and that moving away from Hinduism is good according to the secular liberal Indians.

I too support Hindutva India... But for very different reasons.

I support Hindutva RSS India because:

1. It exposes the false narrative of so-called Secular India, which it never was.
2. It keeps the naive Pakistani Neoliberal who love to appease India in check
3. It exposes the true face of India: a Terrorist, mob lynching, islamaphobic, extremist Hindu nation
4. It will do what our Sissy politicians have been unable to do, the implosion is India into seperate nations... India was never a united singular nation pre-colonial British times. It is a fake nation.
5. Hindutva India is an extremist violent failed nation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh ok Christians. But how are you guys sure of this? The South has huge Hindu festivals, they also seem more on it if you get my drift.

Less than 2.5%, but that's all India. Nothing available without doing some math for South India alone.

The South Indians are genuine Hindus. Not like the religiosity you see in the north.

 

[Ace of Spades]

I too support Hindutva India... But for very different reasons.

I support Hindutva RSS India because:

1. It exposes the false narrative of so-called Secular India, which it never was.
2. It keeps the naive Pakistani Neoliberal who love to appease India in check
3. It exposes the true face of India: a Terrorist, mob lynching, islamaphobic, extremist Hindu nation
4. It will do what our Sissy politicians have been unable to do, the implosion is India into seperate nations... India was never a united singular nation pre-colonial British times. It is a fake nation.
5. Hindutva India is an extremist violent failed nation.

Please expand on to your points in this thread
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakp...e-for-pakposters-on-pdf.676768/#post-12549445

@Mangus Ortus Novem

 

[Gadkari]

Those were different times where there wasn't much of a notion of a religious state since most of the people followed similar traditions/culture and thus nothing to be insecure about.

WRONG. As a matter of fact , in those days Hinduism WAS the state religion without exception. Except in some parts and in some time when Buddhism or Jainism became state religion.

But at all times religion WAS part of the political establishment. And it only made things easier and smoother and uncomplicated and created better opportunities for people to Flourish and prosper.

Also it is interesting to note that you recognize the predatory nature of Abrahamic religions and ideologies like communism and the danger it represents to the Hindu way of life a.k.a Hindutva.

So why would you NOT WANT to protect and defend and nurture something that gave you such rich dividend in the past ? Just because you are a coward used to pandering to the bullies ?

There wouldn't have been these issues if all subcontinent people would have consciously restricted their religion to their home. I get the irony but as I mentioned those were different times and the present is a different time.

We need to look at the future instead of the past.

Times always change, but the PRINCIPLES that govern human and social behavior always remain the same. The lessons of history and the behavior of humans remain the same.

Religion was always a state subject. Certain practices were public and private. Like celebrating a festival was a public activity and it still is.

How can one look towards the future if one is determined to ignore or forget the past ? That is the sure way of repeating the past. To GROW towards the future means to water your past and help the roots grow MORE STRONG and firm. That is the Natural and Organic way. What you are claim is both unnatural and inorganic. Totally alien to both Nature and Hindu systems.

 

[waz]

Less than 2.5%, but that's all India. Nothing available without doing some math for South India alone.

The South Indians are genuine Hindus. Not like the religiosity you see in the north.

Thanks my friend.

 

[Gadkari]

Oh ok Christians. But how are you guys sure of this? The South has huge Hindu festivals, they also seem more on it if you get my drift.

Christianity is growing in South India at an alarming rate, only they are now hiding their christian faith under Hindu names to make sure their kids get "reservation" under govt. rules.

This can be observed by the sudden "shrinking" of Christians in Andhra though it consistently voted for christian CM.

But in Telengana where there are more upper caste Hindus, the xtians hae no need to hide their religion anymore.

If you thought "Hindu" India was bad, wait till you are next door to a "christian" India

 

[Sharma Ji]

The question is whether India can survive, prosper and live with being a Hindutva country and what the consequences will be for the minorities, and indeed for the great number of Hindus who wish for India to be a democratic, liberal, secular, tolerant country.

Don't see why an officially Hindu India will not be a democratic, liberal, secular tolerant country.

Where is the conflict ?

It's just a title anyway, we're already a Hindu nation. Not even religious here but India's identity, and what defines it is the old spiritual tradition of the land, Hinduism.

Actually matters little if a government ever officially makes a declaration of the place being a "Hindu Rashtra"

This doesn't even have to be political, it's just common sense. Most people associate India with it's unique culture and traditions and heritage. This place has also successfully absorbed foreign traditions such as the Abrahamic ones, gave refuge to the Zoroastrians, and sprouted a few new ones and offshoots like Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism along the way.

They can keep calling it Hindustan or make an official change, who cares ?

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

WRONG. As a matter of fact , in those days Hinduism WAS the state religion without exception. Except in some parts and in some time when Buddhism or Jainism became state religion.

There was no concept of a secular state back then and thus Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism was the state religion.

But at all times religion WAS part of the political establishment. And it only made things easier and smoother and uncomplicated and created better opportunities for people to Flourish and prosper.

There are plenty of states (especially the Scandinavian ones) who are secular and they too have made things easier and provided better opportunities for people to flourish and prosper.

Also it is interested to note that you recognize the predatory nature of Abrahamic religions and ideologies like communism and the danger it represents to the Hindu way of life a.k.a Hindutva.

I'm fully aware of the predatory nature of Abrahamic religions and fortunately most of the developed Abrahamic countries haven't allowed the Abrahamic religion to come too much to the fore.

So why would you NOT WANT to protect and defend and nurture something that gave you such rich dividend in the past ? Just because you are a coward used to pandering to the bullies ?

In fact, India being a secular country is in itself a sign that we haven't pandered to the bullies and that we aren't cowards. It's too easy to give the dose of religion and waylay the people for vested interests.

Times always change, but the PRINCIPLES that govern human and social behavior always remain the same. The lessons of history and the behavior of humans remain the same.

Humans have progressed and evolved in many ways. Please don't tell that behavior of humans has remained the same.

Religion was always a state subject. Certain practices were public and private. Like celebrating a festival was a public activity and it still is.

I'm not against celebration of festivals or practicing of religion. People should feel free to practice those things but we need to instill in people the ability to question things and not take them for granted.

How can one look towards the future if one is determined to ignore or forget the past ? That is the sure way of repeating the past. To GROW towards the future means to water your past and help the roots grow MORE STRONG and firm. That is the Natural and Organic way. What you are claim is both unnatural and inorganic. Totally alien to both Nature and Hindu systems.

Yes, we should definitely learn from the past but it doesn't mean we have to imitate the past.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Well, I may sound crazy, but yes, I fully support the idea of constitution of a Hindu national country in our neighborhood.
At the time of partition, muslims were 24% of the total population, yet they demanded a separate country. My forefathers supported that idea, I also stick to it.
However, Hindus were 85 percent, and even today, they are 80% in India. And yet they are not allowed to declare India as a Hindu country.

My question is why not?

If USA can write : In god(christian god) we trust, why can't a Hindu do the same? If top leadership in USA and Germany and even in Russia today declares themselves Christians, Pakistan and Iran can use the name Islamic republic, why only Hindu is pushed to declare themselves as secular? Why can't Hindus also write Hindu republic or Sanatana Republic?

I kick this bigotry and superlative hypocrisy. In my humble opinion, Hindus reserve full right to declare India as Hindus Rashtra.

Individual thoughts please.
@Joe Shearer dont kill me for my thoughts, but I really think that Hindus are victim here.
@Nilgiri @pothead @Soumitra @jamahir

Well, I may sound crazy, but yes, I fully support the idea of constitution of a Hindu national country in our neighborhood.
At the time of partition, muslims were 24% of the total population, yet they demanded a separate country. My forefathers supported that idea, I also stick to it.
However, Hindus were 85 percent, and even today, they are 80% in India. And yet they are not allowed to declare India as a Hindu country.

My question is why not?

If USA can write : In god(christian god) we trust, why can't a Hindu do the same? If top leadership in USA and Germany and even in Russia today declares themselves Christians, Pakistan and Iran can use the name Islamic republic, why only Hindu is pushed to declare themselves as secular? Why can't Hindus also write Hindu republic or Sanatana Republic?

I kick this bigotry and superlative hypocrisy. In my humble opinion, Hindus reserve full right to declare India as Hindus Rashtra.

Individual thoughts please.
@Joe Shearer dont kill me for my thoughts, but I really think that Hindus are victim here.
@Nilgiri @pothead @Soumitra @jamahir

Just for clarity, when did Pakistani Muslims oppose the idea of india becoming a hindu nation?

 

[crankthatskunk]

According to the Indian census of 2011, old if you think about it.

16.6% belongs to "Schedule Castes" a reference to "Dalits" in official terms.
8.6% "Schedule Tribes"
15% Muslims
2% Sikhs
3% Christians

That's makes it 44% to 45% of population who are not Hindus.

From where the figure of 80% Hindu's population came from!!

 

[Gadkari]

There was no concept of a secular state back then and thus Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism was the state religion.

Now you are just repeating me.

So you agree that it was NON SECULAR, COMMUNAL HINDU India that made such fantastic scientific discoveries and inventions that gave birth to modern sciences. (after the arabs first learnt them from us and the Europeans later stole them from us)

There are plenty of states (especially the Scandinavian ones) who are secular and they too have made things easier and provided better opportunities for people to flourish and prosper.

Do you know the history of Scandinavian colonialism ?

They are 'secular' TODAY, after a long history of colonialism, SLAVE TRADING and exploitation and plunder.

If that is what it takes to become "secular' let us start on that journey.

I'm fully aware of the predatory nature of Abrahamic religions and fortunately most of the developed Abrahamic countries haven't allowed the Abrahamic religion to come too much to the fore.

In fact, India being a secular country is in itself a sign that we haven't pandered to the bullies and that we aren't cowards. It's too easy to give the dose of religion and waylay the people for vested interests.

Are you for real ? Do you live in some parallel universe ?

What do you think Appeasement policy was all about ? What did you think "shah bano" case was all about ? Or "babri masjid case" ? or Article 370 ? or restrictions to travel to Lakshwadeep island or Nagaland ?

Hindus and India have allowed the "religious minorities" to bully us for the last 70 years. We WERE COWARDS. We stopped being cowards the day we voted Modi to power and scrapped article 370 etc.

The point of Hindutva IS TO NOT GIVE IN TO THOSE Vested Interests.

Humans have progressed and evolved in many ways. Please don't tell that behavior of humans has remained the same.

Human nature and hence behavior will NEVER change. Which is why Ramayan and Mahabharat are relevant even today.

I'm not against celebration of festivals or practicing of religion. People should feel free to practice those things but we need to instill in people the ability to question things and not take them for granted.

Yes, we should definitely learn from the past but it doesn't mean we have to imitate the past.

Hinduism / Hndutva is not about living n the past or imitating the past.

Its about recognizing the past and honoring it to build a better future.

Hindus had rules of war LONG before "geneva convention". And Hindus knew to respect animals LONG BEFORE "PETA". And Hindus never had "slavery" even before they discovered "human rights".

When has the Hindus EVER imitated anyone ? the whole world is imitating us.

 

[Crixus]

I was shocked when i find out Jagan Mohan Reddy is a Christian ......

Christianity is growing in South India at an alarming rate, only they are now hiding their christian faith under Hindu names to make sure their kids get "reservation" under govt. rules.

This can be observed by the sudden "shrinking" of Christians in Andhra though it consistently voted for christian CM.

But in Telengana where there are more upper caste Hindus, the xtians hae no need to hide their religion anymore.

If you thought "Hindu" India was bad, wait till you are next door to a "christian" India

 

[xeuss]

Well, I may sound crazy, but yes, I fully support the idea of constitution of a Hindu national country in our neighborhood.
At the time of partition, muslims were 24% of the total population, yet they demanded a separate country. My forefathers supported that idea, I also stick to it.
However, Hindus were 85 percent, and even today, they are 80% in India. And yet they are not allowed to declare India as a Hindu country.

My question is why not?

If USA can write : In god(christian god) we trust, why can't a Hindu do the same? If top leadership in USA and Germany and even in Russia today declares themselves Christians, Pakistan and Iran can use the name Islamic republic, why only Hindu is pushed to declare themselves as secular? Why can't Hindus also write Hindu republic or Sanatana Republic?

I kick this bigotry and superlative hypocrisy. In my humble opinion, Hindus reserve full right to declare India as Hindus Rashtra.

Individual thoughts please.
@Joe Shearer dont kill me for my thoughts, but I really think that Hindus are victim here.
@Nilgiri @pothead @Soumitra @jamahir

You obviously have not been reading enough, or understand enough what exactly a Hindu Rashtra entails. You think it will be like any other republic in the world with just Hinduism as an official state religion.

If you carefully study Hindutva, it is nothing more than a demand to subjugate primarily Muslims and Islam. If you look at their manifestos, every agenda and policy is about Muslims and how to crush them. I find it ludicrous you are willingly endorsing such a call.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Oh ok Christians. But how are you guys sure of this? The South has huge Hindu festivals, they also seem more on it if you get my drift.

The original poster's claim we're discussing here said:

"A lot of South "Hindus" are already converted and keep their Hindu name for caste benefits..."

I agree with that only in part. A lot of people have been saved here, definitely more rife in the south, this legendary Christian quest to harvest souls in India

A lot of them, a handful known to me even, seem to have kept their old surnames for some reason. It could be because of caste reasons, I really can't say for certain.

You can never tell a Christian from their first name here, they mostly, or in a lot of cases keep the traditional Indian Hindi one but they're George or Mascarenas or Godinho etc for surnames.

but then you have a Jagan Mohan Reddy, for example, who is a Christian.

There's also lots of casteism and internal Xtian hate flung toward their own lot, there's dissenters, non believers, elitists (purane converts)

also, things vary state to state, Keralite ones are different from goan ones, who are different from Mizoram and Manipur ones so there's that too.

Impossible to explain, these dynamics.. unless you've experienced them from close range for sustained durations. Too much diversity, but it's not a weakness.

It's hard, even for Indians to wrap their heads around how things might work in another part of the country, the inner workings of a whole community that is different from them.

Jai !

 

[Gadkari]

I was shocked when i find out Jagan Mohan Reddy is a Christian ......

Why ?

His father YSR Reddy was a christian too. Ex-CM of Andhra Pradesh.

Jagan Mohan Reddy's Brother in Law "Anil Kumar" is one of the Biggest and Richest christian missionary in India. Conversion is quite literally his Family Business.

https://newsmeter.in/ap-cms-brother-in-law-anil-kumar-in-vizag-to-spread-message-of-god/

Visakhapatnam: Chief Minister YS Jaganmohan Reddy’s brother-in-law Anil Kumar visited parts of Vizag Agency for evangelization.

Fifty year-old evangelist Brother Anil Kumar visited Paderu and few other places in Vizag Agency and explained teachings of gospel to the congregation of pastors .

Participating as chief guest at `Daiva Sevakula Sadassu’ (Pastors Meeting), organized by Love and Care organization at Paderu, Brother Anil Kumar said he visited parts of Vizag Agency to spread God’s message to the people.

There was a huge turnout at Brother Anil Kumar’s meeting. Brother Anil Kumar said all the people are brothers and sisters of God and they should follow His way of life for peace.

Brother Anil Kumar extorted all the pastors in Vizag Agency to spread the message of love and peace. He also presented copies of Bible, clothes to pastors and other people.

Jaganmohan Reddy and his family are Christians. Anil Kumar, who was born to Hindu Brahmin parents, converted to Christianity after his marriage to Jagan’s sister YS Sharmila in 1995.

Araku Vally MLA Setti Phalguna, Paderu MLA K Bhagyalakshmi and few other leaders and activists of YSR Congress Party also attended Brother Anil Kumar’s meeting at Paderu.

The YSR Congress Party leaders said Brother Anil Kumar visited different villages of Andhra Pradesh to spread the message of God.