Importance of Karachi and Karachiites for Pakistan

[criticalerror]

Just look at all the racists from all over Pakistan gathering on thread..

Sharam se doob maro sab ke sab

Exactly.

Doob marnay ka hi maqam hai.

 

[S.Y.A]

I am referring to general behaviour.

and that is what I am saying. people will always hate those who have more, previously it was the Karachiites, now it is the Punjabis. people will always blame others for their backwardness. MQM is doing it right now, they destroyed the people/youth of Khi and blame others for that.

 

[newb3e]

why bring mqm everytime someone discusses Karachi!! mqm never represented Karachi!

 

[S.Y.A]

which it leech of from rest of Pakistan, see how many headquarters there are in Karachi of companies working all over Pakistan.

Leech Pakistan? those companies were founded by Karachiites, and would obviously be based in Karachi. private sector isnt govt sector that it would leech anybody. you want private sector companies in your areas? establish some. ask your rich people to invest in industry. how is it Karachi's fault that others do not invest in Bajaur, Larkana or Dera Bugti?

 

[Meengla]

There's a lot going on this thread. Perhaps giving some wet dreams to our neighbors to the east who, according to their Rakshak forum, thought that Altaf Hussein would one day come back as a Knight on a Horse to Karachi as the President of a liberated Jinnah Pur...
1) Yes, there has always been a sense of superiority in the minds of the Urdu Speakers. But that comes not from any racial or cultural superiority but from the self-awareness that comes from being 'educated' and more liberated. I have lived in the American South for more than half my life (I am no 'ABCD' BTW!) and I have seen the people from 'Up North' and 'Out West' having similar sense of superiority over the Southerners; movies like 'Deliverance' re-enforce such stereotypes.
2) Look at who the Karachiities voted in 2018? At least 18 seats from Karachi alone are for PTI directly or indirectly for Mr. Imran Khan--a guy who sounds like a Punjabi but plays down his Punjabiaat and insults Punjab by deliberately playing up his Pashtun origin. Without Karachi, Imran Khan wouldn't be the Prime Minister of Pakistan--you would have Nawaz Sharif, backed by Zardari. Those are electoral facts.
3) MQM was an ugly reaction of Karachi against the the feudal Sindhis. Go to any Sindhi dominated city. They are a wreck despite all the resources given to them. How many times PPP has ruled Sindh since 1971? Compare that with the Karachi under Musharraf and Mustafa Kamal as the Mayor of Karachi: Resources given, and results given. These are facts. Nothing to do with ethnicity but everything do with the urban vs rural mindset. It's a global phenomenon.
4) I think Mr. @Kabira is wrong about the people of Karachi hating Punjabis. It used to be the case but, like Punjabis, Karachiites often votes beyond ethnicities. In 2007/8 Punjabis voted for Zardari. In 2018, Karaciities voted for PTI.
5) Yes,we all are Pakistanis. But let's not play-down differences in cultural norms. When large chunks of Pakistani choose to be in 'tribal' pride and banish women from for economic participation, then there are consequences. The people of Karachi, though 'conservative' Muslims, allow the women empowerment to a much greater degree. And hence the results. How can a country progress by being misogynist? Pakistan is not rich in oil like KSA and Iran and must have women in all forms of life. Only regions of Punjab come close to Karachi in women empowerment. There is a LOT in common between Karachi and regions of Punjab than meets the eye.
6) Speaking of Karachiities' ethnic chauvinism... I remember a certain column in Jang's Urdu newspaper from the 1980's. The writer claimed that the Urdu Speakers have the 'Khoo e Sultani, Boo e Sultani' hangover. Roughly meaning that the Urdu Speakers had dominated under the Mughal Sultanates in Delhi had still not gotten over their sense of entitlement and superiority.

Anyway, honest discussion is all good. But if some bozo claims a higher ground because he is 'the son of the soil' then let it be remembered that the immigrants from India formed the backbone of the Pakistan movement, formed the backbone of the fledgling country of Pakistan, and will protect Pakistan against the naivete of such 'sons of the soil' fools!!

Pakistan Zindabad!!!

 

[criticalerror]

There's a lot going on this thread. Perhaps giving some wet dreams to our neighbors to the east who, according to their Rakshak forum, thought that Altaf Hussein would one day come back as a Knight on a Horse to Karachi as the President of a liberated Jinnah Pur...
1) Yes, there has always been a sense of superiority in the minds of the Urdu Speakers. But that comes not from any racial or cultural superiority but from the self-awareness that comes from being 'educated' and more liberated. I have lived in the American South for more than half my life (I am no 'ABCD' BTW!) and I have seen the people from 'Up North' and 'Out West' having similar sense of superiority over the Southerners; movies like 'Deliverance' re-enforce such stereotypes.
2) Look at who the Karachiities voted in 2018? At least 18 seats from Karachi alone are for PTI directly or indirectly for Mr. Imran Khan--a guy who sounds like a Punjabi but plays down his Punjabiaat and insults Punjab by deliberately playing up his Pashtun origin. Without Karachi, Imran Khan wouldn't be the Prime Minister of Pakistan--you would have Nawaz Sharif, backed by Zardari. Those are electoral facts.
3) MQM was an ugly reaction of Karachi against the the feudal Sindhis. Go to any Sindhi dominated city. They are a wreck despite all the resources given to them. How many times PPP has ruled Sindh since 1971? Compare that with the Karachi under Musharraf and Mustafa Kamal as the Mayor of Karachi: Resources given, and results given. These are facts. Nothing to do with ethnicity but everything do with the urban vs rural mindset. It's a global phenomenon.
4) I think Mr. @Kabira is wrong about the people of Karachi hating Punjabis. It used to be the case but, like Punjabis, Karachiites often votes beyond ethnicities. In 2007/8 Punjabis voted for Zardari. In 2018, Karaciities voted for PTI.
5) Yes,we all are Pakistanis. But let's not play-down differences in cultural norms. When large chunks of Pakistani choose to be in 'tribal' pride and banish women from for economic participation, then there are consequences. The people of Karachi, though 'conservative' Muslims, allow the women empowerment to a much greater degree. And hence the results. How can a country progress by being misogynist? Pakistan is not rich in oil like KSA and Iran and must have women in all forms of life. Only regions of Punjab come close to Karachi in women empowerment. There is a LOT in common between Karachi and regions of Punjab than meets the eye.
6) Speaking of Karachiities' ethnic chauvinism... I remember a certain column in Jang's Urdu newspaper from the 1980's. The writer claimed that the Urdu Speakers have the 'Khoo e Sultani, Boo e Sultani' hangover. Roughly meaning that the Urdu Speakers had dominated under the Mughal Sultanates in Delhi had still not gotten over their sense of entitlement and superiority.

Anyway, honest discussion is all good. But if some bozo claims a higher ground because he is 'the son of the soil' then let it be remembered that the immigrants from India formed the backbone of the Pakistan movement, formed the backbone of the fledgling country of Pakistan, and will protect Pakistan against the naivete of such 'sons of the soil' fools!!

Pakistan Zindabad!!!

Your post is exactly what is wrong with this thread. You on one hand try to counter the racism with your opening para, then proceed to spew the same racial superiority nonsense that everyone is spewing on this thread. What separates your post from the others on this thread?

An honest discussion on cultural differences is always fine. A discussion on the reasons of supposed superiority of one ethnicity over the other(what you did, trying to justify Karachiites superiority complex by giving logical arguments in favour of it) is absolutely absurd.

All you did is just a verbose description of why one race feels superior to the other.


I have tagged the mods on this thread but seems they are fine with this thread so continue this racist fest.

 

[PakSword]

4) I think Mr. @Kabira is wrong about the people of Karachi hating Punjabis. It used to be the case but, like Punjabis, Karachiites often votes beyond ethnicities. In 2007/8 Punjabis voted for Zardari. In 2018, Karaciities voted for PTI.

Ignore him he is suffering from inferior complex.

But I am not liking how some karachiittes are behaving.. look how majority came forward against Indus Pakistan, but we karachiittes are still complaining...

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Alright lets end this....

We had enough of this...

We will share contribution of each ethnicity to Pakistan in near future.

 

[VCheng]

There's a lot going on this thread. Perhaps giving some wet dreams to our neighbors to the east who, according to their Rakshak forum, thought that Altaf Hussein would one day come back as a Knight on a Horse to Karachi as the President of a liberated Jinnah Pur...
1) Yes, there has always been a sense of superiority in the minds of the Urdu Speakers. But that comes not from any racial or cultural superiority but from the self-awareness that comes from being 'educated' and more liberated. I have lived in the American South for more than half my life (I am no 'ABCD' BTW!) and I have seen the people from 'Up North' and 'Out West' having similar sense of superiority over the Southerners; movies like 'Deliverance' re-enforce such stereotypes.
2) Look at who the Karachiities voted in 2018? At least 18 seats from Karachi alone are for PTI directly or indirectly for Mr. Imran Khan--a guy who sounds like a Punjabi but plays down his Punjabiaat and insults Punjab by deliberately playing up his Pashtun origin. Without Karachi, Imran Khan wouldn't be the Prime Minister of Pakistan--you would have Nawaz Sharif, backed by Zardari. Those are electoral facts.
3) MQM was an ugly reaction of Karachi against the the feudal Sindhis. Go to any Sindhi dominated city. They are a wreck despite all the resources given to them. How many times PPP has ruled Sindh since 1971? Compare that with the Karachi under Musharraf and Mustafa Kamal as the Mayor of Karachi: Resources given, and results given. These are facts. Nothing to do with ethnicity but everything do with the urban vs rural mindset. It's a global phenomenon.
4) I think Mr. @Kabira is wrong about the people of Karachi hating Punjabis. It used to be the case but, like Punjabis, Karachiites often votes beyond ethnicities. In 2007/8 Punjabis voted for Zardari. In 2018, Karaciities voted for PTI.
5) Yes,we all are Pakistanis. But let's not play-down differences in cultural norms. When large chunks of Pakistani choose to be in 'tribal' pride and banish women from for economic participation, then there are consequences. The people of Karachi, though 'conservative' Muslims, allow the women empowerment to a much greater degree. And hence the results. How can a country progress by being misogynist? Pakistan is not rich in oil like KSA and Iran and must have women in all forms of life. Only regions of Punjab come close to Karachi in women empowerment. There is a LOT in common between Karachi and regions of Punjab than meets the eye.
6) Speaking of Karachiities' ethnic chauvinism... I remember a certain column in Jang's Urdu newspaper from the 1980's. The writer claimed that the Urdu Speakers have the 'Khoo e Sultani, Boo e Sultani' hangover. Roughly meaning that the Urdu Speakers had dominated under the Mughal Sultanates in Delhi had still not gotten over their sense of entitlement and superiority.

Anyway, honest discussion is all good. But if some bozo claims a higher ground because he is 'the son of the soil' then let it be remembered that the immigrants from India formed the backbone of the Pakistan movement, formed the backbone of the fledgling country of Pakistan, and will protect Pakistan against the naivete of such 'sons of the soil' fools!!

Pakistan Zindabad!!!

Your post is exactly what is wrong with this thread. You on one hand try to counter the racism with your opening para, then proceed to spew the same racial superiority nonsense that everyone is spewing on this thread. What separates your post from the others on this thread?

An honest discussion on cultural differences is always fine. A discussion on the reasons of supposed superiority of one ethnicity over the other(what you did, trying to justify Karachiites superiority complex by giving logical arguments in favour of it) is absolutely absurd.

All you did is just a verbose description of why one race feels superior to the other.


I have tagged the mods on this thread but seems they are fine with this thread so continue this racist fest.

Pakistan is a large country with many ethnicities, and it is stronger because of its diversity.

Such a society flourishes if it can ensure that all its constituents share common goals and ideals while celebrating their differences, and degenerates if the differences are used to seek division and rancor at the cost of the common goals and ideals.

A sense of real or perceived deprivation goes a long way in fanning such flames of divisiveness. It is up to the leaders to ensure that a sense of fairness prevails, no matter what, if the country is to benefit.

 

[criticalerror]

Pakistan is a large country with many ethnicities, and it is stronger because of its diversity.

Such a society flourishes if it can ensure that all its constituents share common goals and ideals while celebrating their differences. and degenerates if the differences are used to seek division and rancor at the cost of the common goals and ideals.

A sense of real or perceived deprivation goes a long way in fanning such flames of divisiveness. It is up to the leaders to ensure that a sense of fairness prevails, no matter what, if the country is to benefit.

I agree with your post in principle. But there are better ways of resolving such a sense of deprivation than resorting to racial chauvinism. That is the point i am trying to make.
In our scenario, the mods should have put a stop to this , them being the “leaders “ in this time and place. An educating message should have been conveyed on this thread to that effect. Alas, we see mods liking the posts so it would be foolish to expect them to step in. And that is what is wrong with us. We are ready to split at a moments notice, but not willing to work are way through whatever differences we have , perceived or otherwise.

 

[VCheng]

I agree with your post in principle. But there are better ways of resolving such a sense of deprivation than resorting to racial chauvinism. That is the point i am trying to make.
In our scenario, the mods should have put a stop to this , them being the “leaders “ in this time and place. An educating message should have been conveyed on this thread to that effect. Alas, we see mods liking the posts so it would be foolish to expect them to step in. And that is what is wrong with us. We are ready to split at a moments notice, but not willing to work are way through whatever differences we have , perceived or otherwise.

I understand your points, but please keep in mind that this forum is but a microcosm of the real thing, and it is being run exactly as the management wishes to run their forum by rights, to deliver the desired results. Just like Pakistan itself.

 

[criticalerror]

I understand your points, but please keep in mind that this forum is but a microcosm of the real thing, and it is being run exactly as the management wishes to run their forum by rights, to deliver the desired results. Just like Pakistan itself.

It is exactly what i am afraid of. If we can’t control it here, where the majority are somewhat educated, how can we expect to control the real thing. Sad state of affairs.

 

[Kabira]

Leech Pakistan? those companies were founded by Karachiites, and would obviously be based in Karachi. private sector isnt govt sector that it would leech anybody. you want private sector companies in your areas? establish some. ask your rich people to invest in industry. how is it Karachi's fault that others do not invest in Bajaur, Larkana or Dera Bugti?

Funded by Karachites? multinationals have their HQ in Karachi. How the f did Karachites fund them? And then rest of local private sector which depend on all of Pakistan for sustainability not all necessarily funded by Karachites. You cant expect Malik Riaz to have his HQ of Bahria town in his native village somewhere in Sialkot.

This have changed somewhat after decade of MQM and taliban terrorism. Thats why telecoms players that came post 2001 established their HQ in Islamabad. Which have made ISB/Pindi area responsible for 40% of IT exports. Doesnt mean its just because of location or ethnicity.

There is no point crying about some gov jobs when Karachi have huge private sector jobs which mostly benefit muhajirs.

4) I think Mr. @Kabira is wrong about the people of Karachi hating Punjabis. It used to be the case but, like Punjabis, Karachiites often votes beyond ethnicities. In 2007/8 Punjabis voted for Zardari. In 2018, Karaciities voted for PTI.

Not necessarily people of Karachi but surely so called MQMites or Altaf minions of this forum, look at this thread.

 

[Meengla]

I really don't know how this can ever be a 'racist' discussion? We are all the same race here. And I had highlighted the differences are because of urban vs tribal attitudes. I had said that parts of Punjab have more women empowerment like Karachi has. I should have added Gilgit Baltistan to the places where women are more empowered. I had said that such different regional perceptions exists in America too and those are not 'racists'.

Cultural differences. Women empowerment is essential for Pakistan's prosperity. They are not objects to be locked up.

Also, I really don't think Pakistan is splitting apart because of these differences. On the contrary: Pakistani 'nationalism', which had a question mark over it for decades, is becoming a solid identity. As an amalgam of different ethnic, religious, and cultural backgrounds. Sort of similar to what the USA has achieved despite the often frictions between various countries' immigrants from Europe. People are marrying across different ethnicities more and more.

Let's not read hatred into everything. Let's not have such a thin-skin.

There is no point crying about some gov jobs when Karachi have huge private sector jobs which mostly benefit muhajirs.

Yes, exactly.
Way back in the 1980s when I split away from MQM after a very short association, I used to argue with fellow Urdu Speakers at Karachi University that, while the Quota System maybe wrong, let's not divide the society because of that. I used to say that for every govt job there are probably a hundred private sector jobs. The reply I got from one guy was something like: "Yes, but so should we let them exploit us forever?" These MQM fanatics played petty politics and didn't see the larger picture: Progress through Peace. And we know the consequences of their short-sightedness for not only Karachi but also for Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

Me being a Potohari raised objections against the racist posts of @Indus Pakistan a long time ago. Many other Punjabis also criticized him but since he was bashing Islam, mocking Muslims so he was allowed to post his trash. Now, he's been banned yet many others like @syed1 who made equally despicable posts against Punjabis still roam free on pdf---you have conveniently closed your eyes on the racist slurs against Punjabis and the demonization of Punjab which makes you no better than the likes of @Indus Pakistan.

Come to Punjab and see for yourself how racist Punjab is. Unlike parts of Balochistan and Sindh including Karachi and Hyderabad which saw racial clashes, there has been none in Punjab. I live in Pindi and a third is Pashtoon, never heard of ethnic tension unlike the great metropolitan who is "feeding us paindoos".
There are tons of Baloch living in faisalabad, can a Punjabi dare to establish a business in Balochistan? FYI Punjabis are more open hearted than any other community and have rarely bragged about "defending rest of the country" or any other meaningless thing---unlike the "makers of Pakistan" and the "feeders of Pakistan".
Nobody cares in Punjab about those meaningless things which are a big deal for the "makers of Pakistan". Most Punjabis defended Karachi not only in this thread but others as well against Indus Pakistan.

And yes the terrorists of BLA do have a point.
The Abba of Akhtar Mengal who is portrayed as a paragon of humanity by our media threatened the Punjabis in a public procession by saying "Punjabiyo daffa ho jao meray soobay se" ---and then the exodus of Punjabis from Balochistan started.
Working class Punjabis (Labors skilled and unskilled, teachers, doctors and nurses) were stuffed in buses and forced to vacate.
The "naraz Baloch" started to kill punjabis execution style by separating them from other passengers---They do have a point since Punjabis have been demonized and blamed for their own inadequacies despite the fact that major military operations in Baluchistan were ordered by non-Punjabis i.e Ayub, Bhutto and Musharraf.
When are you going to muster enough courage to speak out against the forced expulsion of Punjabis from Baluchistan?

The immortals of Larkana also blame Punjab for the miseries of interior Sindh where no Punjabi politician dares to venture---the same Punjab who put a Sindhi and his daughter and his son in law into power is blamed for presenting "lashon ka tohfa"---People who can't take Larkana out of it's miseries even after 18th amendment also blame Punjab.
The transgender son of BiBi does have a point when he blames agencies for inaction against "terrorists" who attack "innocent" Indian soldiers in Indian "administered" Kashmir. Yet forgets his own mamu jan who asked Indra to provide assistance in breaking Pakistan into four---and was hijacking PIA planes, bombing and assassinating people.
The fat toad also had a point when he performed the biggest terror attack in our history by burning a factory with 300 labor to the ground---for not paying up. They forgot that a muhajir dictator ruled for eight long years.

PTM also had a point when their likes were waging a war against the state and declared Punjabis as kaffirs and entrenched themselves on the mountains of FATA.

Yet people who didn't commit acts of treason against the state don't have a point when they point out that they are demonized as per a well thought out plan despite being the least racist among the four ethnicities. When a muhajir calls us leeches and jahil paindoos it's OK, but when equally condemnable remarks are made by a Punjabi you start to justify terrorism and treason---Very hypocritical of you.
We support the ban on Indus Pakistan for making despicable remarks, show some morality and ban his counterparts from your own community as well. Or you are going to ignore your elephant in the room and talk about our ant till you die?

@MUSTAKSHAF

I lived in Punjab for 7 years, KPK for three so I know exactly who stands where. I was first called an Indian in Punjab- not KPK.
Nor did I absolve the Karachi migrants from racism- which is why we banned members who used to partake in such from Karachi.. find out who waffen SAs was.

As I said, we cannot get along as a people it seems anymore.

Remember speaking to an agency man many years ago right after 9/11.

He was convinced that Pakistan would be broken up no matter what.. Pukhtoonistan- Sindhustra- Balochistan and so on. That plan will never end, nor will the number of Pakistanis willing to support it.