I'm A Dalit But I Think It's Wrong To Blame The BJP For The Una Assault

[egodoc222]

Jats agitation, Kapu ( AP), patidar, gujjar is purely subjected to politics ... am not talking about such type of acts... am referring raising voice in peaceful manner... for the name sake they are allocating funds for SC/ST, most of these funds diverting to other at state level, and being misused at ground level... what we need is creating social awareness among the citizens...providing equal opportunity ... if you see attack on dalit in Gujrat, it's their profession... they live on that job.... they get food from doing it... they are socially & economically weak... they can't afford schools...they are doing a job that no one can imagine .... many people arguing abolition of reservation.... reservation are there for such people... otherwise they live in dark side even after centuries..... agree or disagree govt need to take care of misuse of funds allocated them...

Exactly...I feel the reservations should exist....but each and every government goes on increasing the % of reservations....in andhra reservations stand at more than 60%! I think the existing programmes for welfare of sc/st community are enough....the problem lies in lack of awareness of these programmes, especially people living in remote villages. And people who availed the reservation and reached a good position in society fail to do their bit to bring the people of their community up, but creating awareness!!!

 

[MKC]

If there are cases which are not being registered, then it is safe to assume that a higher proportion numbers of cases of atrocities against other castes are also not being registered. There will always be some perceptive differentiation/discrimination against any group anywhere in the world. This is true of all societies and all countries in the world. Today Brahmins are institutionally discriminated against in India. What will you say about that? Day in and day out our academic institutions demonize Brahmins with state sanction. So hold back and try to see the world as it is.

You are right Brahmins are being discriminated.
But check wealth of all Bramins or upper caste people & lower caste people.
When you come in my village, you will find only lower caste students in govt school.
However in pvt schools you can find lower caste as many lower caste people have started sending despite low income but all upper caste students go in pvt schools & you know main problem is education.

I found only person who thinks Brahmins are being discriminated. From where the issue of discrimination of Brahmin became.

 

[baajey]

Mandal commission was probably the single most regressive thing India has ever done.

why so sir ?

 

[naveen mishra]

Why?

irony is brahmin is not involve in such crime,they are only 3.5 % of total population ,they are real marginalized people, no buddy is bother in India for poor and socially suppressed Brahman
mostly those in involve in such crime, they himself belong to lower and other backward cast ,but relatively they are upper cast compare to dalit ,how you will battle with such psychology, that i belong to upper cast than you

Mandal commission was probably the single most regressive thing India has ever done.

but benefit is ,it has forced to think upper cast for other alternative ,total reservation is above 63 % ,if you will include PH,central government,all India cota and FF

i am clear , my Kidd will do under graduation either from america or Germany ,from right now i am doing all preparation and hard work , because i know, it is more easy and less time consuming for me , rather than attempting or considering chance in India

 

[Nilgiri]

why so sir ?

Instead of identifying across economic spectrum solely.... Caste was officially introduced in a 1:1 narrative that all that belong to a certain one have an identical socio economic profile....and that will remain for perpetuity.

The other big problem is instead of addressing the root causes of why socio-economic conditions are prevalent in certain "castes" + root causes of any prejudices and having everyone compete based on merit in a free market only....we choose to reject merit and instead promote inefficient bureaucracy, political votebanking and overall degradation of quality.,,,all the while imprinting caste on people's road to their livelihood and enshrining the prejudices at the same time (eg. people needing reservations to gain mileage actively supports and enforces stereotyping of the communities/castes they are from).

Anything that goes against the free market and mass education at all levels....is regressive. But few tick every single box like Mandal commission.

 

[danger007]

Exactly...I feel the reservations should exist....but each and every government goes on increasing the % of reservations....in andhra reservations stand at more than 60%! I think the existing programmes for welfare of sc/st community are enough....the problem lies in lack of awareness of these programmes, especially people living in remote villages. And people who availed the reservation and reached a good position in society fail to do their bit to bring the people of their community up, but creating awareness!!!

Not 60% ... the funds being misused, being diverted and the programmes supposed to reach are not reaching the dalits ... corruption is main main obstacle...
1. Funds allocated to Dalits by center being diverted by state govt.
2. Lack of awareness about development programmes for them.
3. Irresponsibility of the officers- demanding bribe otherwise not sanctioning loan or asking them to bring bank guarantee..
4. Ironically bankers use farmers Passbook, other identity to get farm loan... like wise Dalit identity being used to get loans without their attention...

 

[baajey]

Instead of identifying across economic spectrum solely.... Caste was officially introduced in a 1:1 narrative that all that belong to a certain one have an identical socio economic profile....and that will remain for perpetuity.

The other big problem is instead of addressing the root causes of why socio-economic conditions are prevalent in certain "castes" + root causes of any prejudices and having everyone compete based on merit in a free market only....we choose to reject merit and instead promote inefficient bureaucracy, political votebanking and overall degradation of quality.,,,all the while imprinting case on people's road to their livelihood and enshrining the prejudices at the same time (eg. people needing reservations to gain mileage actively supports and enforces stereotyping of the communities/castes they are from).

Anything that goes against the free market and mass education at all levels....is regressive. But few tick every single box like Mandal commission.

and whats the possible solution to this, according to you?
also, i find "reservation on the basis of financial status" cannot be implemented in a socially fractured place as india. remember, our solution needs to simple. it cant have 'n' no. of ends which can be bent and exploited.
the way i see it, financial reservation will not only increase "anti-meritocracy" and rampant corruption (its still there, but the magnitude will increase manifold as number of ppl encompassed will be much more than the no. of SC/STs today), it will be the 8itch of whoever can afford money to make themselves a shining new "BPL" certificate.
now, the above anomalies can be countered if the state machinery does its job properly. but then, this will solve the present situation as well.
i believe our founding fathers, esp ambedkar, foresaw it and modelled as you have said "1-1 narrative".

the only viable solution i see is - stop the eligibles (SC/STs) from availing the "help" if their father/mother (previous generation) had already availed the same. this way, the deserving ones get the "help" and the greedy ones are kept out, thereby, eliminating the quota system as time progresses (will take hell lot of a time though, considering rampant illiteracy and misinformation in interior parts).

however, i am at loss to find a viable (in this case, non exploitable) solution for the ppl who belong to castes others than SC/STs.

Over to you.

Funds allocated to Dalits by center being diverted by state govt.

this is very true. i happened to see an (incomplete) interview in NDTV, in which Mira Kumar (LS Speaker) mentioned this same anomaly.
i ll try to post that interview .

 

[Nilgiri]

and whats the possible solution to this, according to you?
also, i find "reservation on the basis of financial status" cannot be implemented in a socially fractured place as india. remember, our solution needs to simple. it cant have 'n' no. of ends which can be bent and exploited.
the way i see it, financial reservation will not only increase "anti-meritocracy" and rampant corruption (its still there, but the magnitude will increase manifold as number of ppl encompassed will be much more than the no. of SC/STs today), it will be the 8itch of whoever can afford money to make themselves a shining new "BPL" certificate.
now, the above anomalies can be countered if the state machinery does its job properly. but then, this will solve the present situation as well.
i believe our founding fathers, esp ambedkar, foresaw it and modelled as you have said "1-1 narrative".

the only viable solution i see is - stop the eligibles (SC/STs) from availing the "help" if their father/mother (previous generation) had already availed the same. this way, the deserving ones get the "help" and the greedy ones are kept out, thereby, eliminating the quota system as time progresses (will take hell lot of a time though, considering rampant illiteracy and misinformation in interior parts).

however, i am at loss to find a viable (in this case, non exploitable) solution for the ppl who belong to castes others than SC/STs.

Over to you.

The answer is to not restrict supply and implement govt bureaucracy in controlling who gets access to what outside of what market forces dictate.

Rather the market must be allowed to respond to the the demand organically and create the supply in abundance.

Thats why reservation for example does not pop up in primary schooling where there is abundant supply (which would be improved even more if the govt leaves the school business altogether and only enforce standards and provide vouchers where necessary).

It is essentially a supply and quality issue that stems from govt interference in education.

If primary and secondary schooling can be improved to such a level quality wise on top of the prevalence that exists....there would be no need to have lower intake grades to meet reservation quotas for certain communities....along with ensuring adequate supply of tertiary education and supply of relevant vocational education for the masses of youth as well.

The only criteria that should be there is your academic performance period....not which caste you hail from or which creed or religion or anything else that separates you from everyone else.

Remember that ANYTHING the govt is involved in brings in politics (votebanking), inefficiency, corruption and all kinds of things that degrade the nation in the long run. Absolutely everything must be privately run to ensure no vested interests and agendas exist outside of pure market supply to cater to a demand......social subsidy for market failure should be a strict voucher system and has to be justified. Anything the govt pokes its nose into has to be justified thoroughly rather than surrendering it as a default......because the govt is like a middleman that takes a big juicy cut for himself often the majority of the actual resource transfer.

There is no need to over complicate anything in education by introducing the govt for actual running of such an important business in the country other than direct social subsidy given its importance especially at primary and secondary levels.

Same philosophy has to extend to jobs etc. There should be no quotas but only free market economics. If there is any discrimination outside of free choice, let there be a good, prompt legal framework to handle it.

BTW by financial based for higher education its simple, provide govt loans on merit available for everyone.

 

[Bitter Melon]

You are right Brahmins are being discriminated.
But check wealth of all Bramins or upper caste people & lower caste people.
When you come in my village, you will find only lower caste students in govt school.
However in pvt schools you can find lower caste as many lower caste people have started sending despite low income but all upper caste students go in pvt schools & you know main problem is education.

I found only person who thinks Brahmins are being discriminated. From where the issue of discrimination of Brahmin became.

What has wealth of Brahmins got to do with this topic? America is the richest country in the world, so the rest of human beings should start hating Americans because of their wealth? Fact of the matter is due to what ever historic reasons we find ourselves in this slot. All of that is not due to the Brahmins or upper castes. Who stopped lower castes from studying or moving out of their villages and towns to cities for better opportunities?

There is no institutional or material discrimination today. So focus on today.

I still see the value of education has not seeped into the consciousness of lower caste people. They are still happy with just "passing" school and don't try to compete. Is all this the fault of upper castes?

 

[danger007]

and whats the possible solution to this, according to you?
also, i find "reservation on the basis of financial status" cannot be implemented in a socially fractured place as india. remember, our solution needs to simple. it cant have 'n' no. of ends which can be bent and exploited.
the way i see it, financial reservation will not only increase "anti-meritocracy" and rampant corruption (its still there, but the magnitude will increase manifold as number of ppl encompassed will be much more than the no. of SC/STs today), it will be the 8itch of whoever can afford money to make themselves a shining new "BPL" certificate.
now, the above anomalies can be countered if the state machinery does its job properly. but then, this will solve the present situation as well.
i believe our founding fathers, esp ambedkar, foresaw it and modelled as you have said "1-1 narrative".

the only viable solution i see is - stop the eligibles (SC/STs) from availing the "help" if their father/mother (previous generation) had already availed the same. this way, the deserving ones get the "help" and the greedy ones are kept out, thereby, eliminating the quota system as time progresses (will take hell lot of a time though, considering rampant illiteracy and misinformation in interior parts).

however, i am at loss to find a viable (in this case, non exploitable) solution for the ppl who belong to castes others than SC/STs.

Over to you.

this is very true. i happened to see an (incomplete) interview in NDTV, in which Mira Kumar (LS Speaker) mentioned this same anomaly.
i ll try to post that interview .

Decades ago SC/ST got reservation as per their percentage... now the population grown, they have the competition within themselves... Economic conditions is not only parameter for the reservation but the Social identity... even upper higher class from Dalits are being discriminated...




An example :



On this day, twenty two years ago, the remote village of Tsunduru in Tenali revenue division was witness to a brutal massacre of Dalits in a carnage unleashed by socially-dominant communities.
On Tuesday, families residing in the village converged at ‘Raktha Sketharam’, the place where the bodies of Dalits were buried, and offered their homage to the departed souls. A meeting was held in which Dalit Bahujan Front convener Korivi Vinaya Kumar and others spoke.
But years after the incident, Dalit associations say justice is still eluding them. An appeal seeking life imprisonment to 35 persons who were convicted and awarded simple imprisonment by Special Court Judge Anis in the year 2007 is still pending in the High Court. The special court awarded life imprisonment to 21 persons. The State government had not appointed a successor to special public prosecutor B. Chandrasekhar, who died in January this year.
Jaladi Wilson, convener of Tsunduru Dalit Victims’ Association, told The Hindu they had requested the government to appoint Bojja Tarakam as Special Public Prosecutor to present the case. Back on August 6, 1991, the savage attack on Dalits left eight persons dead but had many more wounded. In a planned attack, the Dalits fleeing for safety were lynched, their bodies pierced into pieces, stuffed into gunny bags and thrown in the Tungabhadra drain. One more youth, Anil Kumar, was killed in police firing in the village. The gory incident galvanised the Dalits into launching a nationwide crusade seeking social justice and emancipation of Dalits. Dalits in towns and villages poured on the streets protesting the massacre. The State government doled out welfare schemes in a bid to contain the anger but was forced to act firmly against the perpetrators of the most heinous attack on Dalits in India’s modern history. Police filed charge-sheets against 219 people belonging to Tsunduru and neighbouring villages.
Under pressure from Dalit associations, the State government established a special court under the provisions of SC & ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act in Tsunduru to try the accused. On a tense day on August 1, 2007, special court judge Anis convicted 56 accused, out of which 21 were awarded life imprisonment and 35 simple imprisonments. It let off 115 others citing lack of evidence.

Everyone saying atrocity act are being misused, but the fact majority or incident are not reported... that is due to political influence or by threatening them...

 

[baajey]

The answer is to not restrict supply and implement govt bureaucracy in controlling who gets access to what outside of what market forces dictate.

Rather the market must be allowed to respond to the the demand organically and create the supply in abundance.

Thats why reservation for example does not pop up in primary schooling where there is abundant supply (which would be improved even more if the govt leaves the school business altogether and only enforce standards and provide vouchers where necessary).

It is essentially a supply and quality issue that stems from govt interference in education.

If primary and secondary schooling can be improved to such a level quality wise on top of the prevalence that exists....there would be no need to have lower intake grades to meet reservation quotas for certain communities....along with ensuring adequate supply of tertiary education and supply of relevant vocational education for the masses of youth as well.

The only criteria that should be there is your academic performance period....not which caste you hail from or which creed or religion or anything else that separates you from everyone else.

Remember that ANYTHING the govt is involved in brings in politics (votebanking), inefficiency, corruption and all kinds of things that degrade the nation in the long run. Absolutely everything must be privately run to ensure no vested interests and agendas exist outside of pure market supply to cater to a demand......social subsidy for market failure should be a strict voucher system and has to be justified. Anything the govt pokes its nose into has to be justified thoroughly rather than surrendering it as a default......because the govt is like a middleman that takes a big juicy cut for himself often the majority of the actual resource transfer.

There is no need to over complicate anything in education by introducing the govt for actual running of such an important business in the country other than direct social subsidy given its importance especially at primary and secondary levels.

Same philosophy has to extend to jobs etc. There should be no quotas but only free market economics. If there is any discrimination outside of free choice, let there be a good, prompt legal framework to handle it.

BTW by financial based for higher education its simple, provide govt loans on merit available for everyone.

so what you are proposing is essentially the elimination of caste based positive discrimination?
so answer me sir, who should be helped ? ---
a kid (scored 60%) - whose illiterate father is a sweeper and barely feeds his family
- who helps his family in earning daily bread
- cant afford to buy books.
or a kid (scored 70%) - who belongs to a family owning huge family fortunes

this is a case like a sick body (our society). we dont function properly unless the sickness is eliminated. you cant run (free market economics) being sick.

 

[Bitter Melon]

SC/ST form 30% of Hindu population. That is almost 300 million people. If 300 million people together cannot work to uplift their own folks, to run and fund their own schools and colleges, banks, etc. etc, instead keep cribbing about upper castes and discrimination and fall for the machinations and manipulation of Christian missionary induced poison in the society, they deserve to be kicked on their *** for being the dumbest humans alive.

Are there 300 million sweepers in this country? Or 300 million refuse collectors?

 

[911]

Reservations based on caste is absolutely sht, it should be based on economic conditions of a family only, those should be given free education.

 

[Star Wars]

Can't believe there are still morons cribbing constantly for reservations. These days it seems people are desperatly trying to be backward caste just to get some doles from govt.

 

[baajey]

Decades ago SC/ST got reservation as per their percentage... now the population grown, they have the competition within themselves... Economic conditions is not only parameter for the reservation but the Social identity... even upper higher class from Dalits are being discriminated...




An example :



On this day, twenty two years ago, the remote village of Tsunduru in Tenali revenue division was witness to a brutal massacre of Dalits in a carnage unleashed by socially-dominant communities.
On Tuesday, families residing in the village converged at ‘Raktha Sketharam’, the place where the bodies of Dalits were buried, and offered their homage to the departed souls. A meeting was held in which Dalit Bahujan Front convener Korivi Vinaya Kumar and others spoke.
But years after the incident, Dalit associations say justice is still eluding them. An appeal seeking life imprisonment to 35 persons who were convicted and awarded simple imprisonment by Special Court Judge Anis in the year 2007 is still pending in the High Court. The special court awarded life imprisonment to 21 persons. The State government had not appointed a successor to special public prosecutor B. Chandrasekhar, who died in January this year.
Jaladi Wilson, convener of Tsunduru Dalit Victims’ Association, told The Hindu they had requested the government to appoint Bojja Tarakam as Special Public Prosecutor to present the case. Back on August 6, 1991, the savage attack on Dalits left eight persons dead but had many more wounded. In a planned attack, the Dalits fleeing for safety were lynched, their bodies pierced into pieces, stuffed into gunny bags and thrown in the Tungabhadra drain. One more youth, Anil Kumar, was killed in police firing in the village. The gory incident galvanised the Dalits into launching a nationwide crusade seeking social justice and emancipation of Dalits. Dalits in towns and villages poured on the streets protesting the massacre. The State government doled out welfare schemes in a bid to contain the anger but was forced to act firmly against the perpetrators of the most heinous attack on Dalits in India’s modern history. Police filed charge-sheets against 219 people belonging to Tsunduru and neighbouring villages.
Under pressure from Dalit associations, the State government established a special court under the provisions of SC & ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act in Tsunduru to try the accused. On a tense day on August 1, 2007, special court judge Anis convicted 56 accused, out of which 21 were awarded life imprisonment and 35 simple imprisonments. It let off 115 others citing lack of evidence.

Everyone saying atrocity act are being misused, but the fact majority or incident are not reported... that is due to political influence or by threatening them...

day in and day out these atrocities are happening. but brothers/sisters from the more privileged classes are still accusing the dalits of being discriminating.
i have an interesting story to share with you guys. my mother told me the story. her mother told her....n it goes back quite a bit.
---- a lamb kid drinks water from a stream.
---- a lion roars from upstream and complains to the flock of sheeps that the water is unfit to drink as the lamb kid licked it.
---- sheeps try to reason with the lion that the lamb is downstream and hence he is wrong.
---- infuriated, the lion kills them all.
i didnt realize the true meaning of this story .... until only recently.