IAF violated Pakistan air space| Forced to return

[TOPGUN]

Next time i dont think the Indians will be so lucky just a cowardly act acted out ! do we know details on which IAF aircrafts where the ones and which PAF aircrafts took to the chase??

 

[Najam Khan]

Dr Shireen Mazari was doing great work as DG Institute of Strategic Studies,but unfortunately our Govt don't want good people to speak truth

 

[Firebird_80]

Hi. I have been following this thread in your forum for quite some time and it is an interesting read. I also regularly follow the Bharat Rakshak and posts on Live Fist, but have never contributed. Anyways this is hopefully my first.

What I can make out of the whole controversy is:

a. The combat readiness of IAF (in terms of updates in strength, limited cutrailment of leaves etc.) is in posture of limited strikes on fundamentalist camps located in Pakistan. At the same time defensive posturing for possible Pakistani retaliation is seen. The issue out of this is the timing and the political mandate and objectives given to the IAF. A limited strike at the basic infrastructure across the LoC (at camps which now have less of Kashmiris and majority Afghan/Somali/Ethiopian fighters) will serve both the Indian govt as also Pakistani govt.

b. The public posturing of Pakistan antagonist to Indian demands seems more like for domestic consumption and Indian rhetoric to match the same is for same purposes in India. There seems to be a tacit understanding about Pakistan taking actions slowly (the civil government is not as strong as one would like it to be and Military still calls the shots) The fact that international community as a whole is now set against Pakistan and insists full compliance with demands made, indicates that odds are not in favor of Pakistan. This was reinforced by Pakistani threat to remove troops from NWFP and FATA to deploy on eastern border thus rendering NATO supply lines unprotected. While this threat may have seemed to have worked for now, the possibility of Pakistan overplaying this is too risky to ignore. With Obama pledging to fill Afghanistan with US troops, the next US administration will not hesitate to secure its supply lines and may occupy areas in NWFP and FATA to ensure security if the same is done. Also this time India may simulaneously apply pressure on East, leaving Pakistan little room to maneuver. All these calculations must have entered into Pakistani leaderships mind when they decided to downplay he IAF incident as also agreed to initially send DG ISI as also to place under arrest all suspects. The volte face now may be due to Army/ISI pressure (?)

3. IAF may have approached the border and may have crossed the line at some point but I dont think it was anything more than the technical aspect or maybe maximum to check the SAM radar locations as also the CAP pattern of PAF. Initially Pak media claimed two or more Indian ACs including in this forum I have seen of SU-30. But the official report from Pak Air HQs state same AC crossed two times in different sector. Typical Indian type scenario here. Contradicting your own self. One thing I would like to point to readers here is that you can not determine if an AC is armed or not in the short span of time given or simply by radar until and unless PAF ACs were directly overhead or in proximity of less than 1 km from IAF AC in which case they were poor pilots to have let IAF AC(s) get away (which I doubt PAF is).

4. With recent turn in events (IAF has relocated its Mig-29s back from Hindon to their strips) I still am wary that IAF may just launch a limited strike if the GoI has the guts to take the hard decision. GoPs statements over the two days have not been very encouraging and it might be in the offing.

 

[x_man]

A limited strike at the basic infrastructure across the LoC (at camps which now have less of Kashmiris and majority Afghan/Somali/Ethiopian fighters) will serve both the Indian govt as also Pakistani govt.

If you arent aware pal, PAF is already taking against the terrorist camps in our side...Thanks , but NO thanks for your offer…

IAF may have approached the border and may have crossed the line at some point but I dont think it was anything more than the technical aspect or maybe maximum to check the SAM radar locations as also the CAP pattern of PAF.

Tech aspect!!! What tech aspects? Was there a westerly tail wind, or the pilot didn’t calculate his rate and radius of turn properly, or his flight controls were frozen or his navigation equipment was broken while he decided to take border flying or was he just drinking in the cockpit or he was just lost anyway ??? Please explain exactly that what tech aspect made him to cross the IB???

Secondly, SAM location or CAP pattern can be known while remaining well inside your own side. One doesn’t need come close to IB to find these things…

One thing I would like to point to readers here is that you can not determine if an AC is armed or not in the short span of time given …

I agree …It was a media hype perhaps…

 

[Flintlock]

Why is Pakistan doing so many U-turns?

ISI Chief - No ISI Chief
Arrest JuD leaders - release JuD leaders
IAF "intrusion" unintentional technical fault - IAF "intrusion" deliberate.

Make up your minds already!!

 

[fatman17]

Hi. I have been following this thread in your forum for quite some time and it is an interesting read. I also regularly follow the Bharat Rakshak and posts on Live Fist, but have never contributed. Anyways this is hopefully my first.

What I can make out of the whole controversy is:

a. The combat readiness of IAF (in terms of updates in strength, limited cutrailment of leaves etc.) is in posture of limited strikes on fundamentalist camps located in Pakistan. At the same time defensive posturing for possible Pakistani retaliation is seen. The issue out of this is the timing and the political mandate and objectives given to the IAF. A limited strike at the basic infrastructure across the LoC (at camps which now have less of Kashmiris and majority Afghan/Somali/Ethiopian fighters) will serve both the Indian govt as also Pakistani govt.

b. The public posturing of Pakistan antagonist to Indian demands seems more like for domestic consumption and Indian rhetoric to match the same is for same purposes in India. There seems to be a tacit understanding about Pakistan taking actions slowly (the civil government is not as strong as one would like it to be and Military still calls the shots) The fact that international community as a whole is now set against Pakistan and insists full compliance with demands made, indicates that odds are not in favor of Pakistan. This was reinforced by Pakistani threat to remove troops from NWFP and FATA to deploy on eastern border thus rendering NATO supply lines unprotected. While this threat may have seemed to have worked for now, the possibility of Pakistan overplaying this is too risky to ignore. With Obama pledging to fill Afghanistan with US troops, the next US administration will not hesitate to secure its supply lines and may occupy areas in NWFP and FATA to ensure security if the same is done. Also this time India may simulaneously apply pressure on East, leaving Pakistan little room to maneuver. All these calculations must have entered into Pakistani leaderships mind when they decided to downplay he IAF incident as also agreed to initially send DG ISI as also to place under arrest all suspects. The volte face now may be due to Army/ISI pressure (?)

3. IAF may have approached the border and may have crossed the line at some point but I dont think it was anything more than the technical aspect or maybe maximum to check the SAM radar locations as also the CAP pattern of PAF. Initially Pak media claimed two or more Indian ACs including in this forum I have seen of SU-30. But the official report from Pak Air HQs state same AC crossed two times in different sector. Typical Indian type scenario here. Contradicting your own self. One thing I would like to point to readers here is that you can not determine if an AC is armed or not in the short span of time given or simply by radar until and unless PAF ACs were directly overhead or in proximity of less than 1 km from IAF AC in which case they were poor pilots to have let IAF AC(s) get away (which I doubt PAF is).

4. With recent turn in events (IAF has relocated its Mig-29s back from Hindon to their strips) I still am wary that IAF may just launch a limited strike if the GoI has the guts to take the hard decision. GoPs statements over the two days have not been very encouraging and it might be in the offing.

very interesting analysis ! in the indo-pak scenario's there is no such thing as a "Limited Strike" IMO. its all or nothing! and that is why the saner minds are prevailing over the right-wingers on both sides.

 

[fatman17]

Why is Pakistan doing so many U-turns?

ISI Chief - No ISI Chief
Arrest JuD leaders - release JuD leaders
IAF "intrusion" unintentional technical fault - IAF "intrusion" deliberate.

Make up your minds already!!

always keep the adversary in a false sense of security! but really the civilian govt. is new and its trying its best!

 

[Pk_Thunder]

Why is Pakistan doing so many U-turns?

ISI Chief - No ISI Chief
Arrest JuD leaders - release JuD leaders
IAF "intrusion" unintentional technical fault - IAF "intrusion" deliberate.

Make up your minds already!!

Pakistan is not taking U-turns dude,that is the inability of the current govt...Very weak in decision making

 

[Imran Khan]

see your indian U- TURNS

ajmak kasab

4 classes ejucated=talk in english like uk gus
alqida involve=dawood ibraheem involve=pakistan =isi =bangladesh =LET=al-dawa= taliban=

its looking whole world involve in bombay
we have proove=we can't show proove

 

[z9-ec]

Sir, Imran Khan naye chakaaa mardia

 

[anand]

see your indian U- TURNS

ajmak kasab

4 classes ejucated=talk in english like uk gus
alqida involve=dawood ibraheem involve=pakistan =isi =bangladesh =LET=al-dawa= taliban=

its looking whole world involve in bombay
we have proove=we can't show proove

What you have quoted are media reports, what Flinto has quoted are your President's statements. There is difference between President of a country and enthusiast reporter.

 

[Zovc]

What you have quoted are media reports, what Flinto has quoted are your President's statements. There is difference between President of a country and enthusiast reporter.

lol our president has said to release JUD leaders and that IAF intrusions were deliberate? i havent heard of anything as such.

 

[anand]

lol our president has said to release JUD leaders and that IAF intrusions were deliberate? i havent heard of anything as such.

Pakistan has officially lodged complaint that IAF intrusion was deliberate, contrary to what your President said

 

[EagleEyes]

Pakistan has officially lodged complaint that IAF intrusion was deliberate, contrary to what your President said

Nope, at best he was trying to control irresponsible actions by the IAF which could lead to war, but it India wants war so no use there.

 

[Firebird_80]

If you arent aware pal, PAF is already taking against the terrorist camps in our side...Thanks , but NO thanks for your offer…



Tech aspect!!! What tech aspects? Was there a westerly tail wind, or the pilot didn’t calculate his rate and radius of turn properly, or his flight controls were frozen or his navigation equipment was broken while he decided to take border flying or was he just drinking in the cockpit or he was just lost anyway ??? Please explain exactly that what tech aspect made him to cross the IB???

Secondly, SAM location or CAP pattern can be known while remaining well inside your own side. One doesn’t need come close to IB to find these things…



I agree …It was a media hype perhaps…

well on the western side there does seem to be concentrated Pakistani actions but what we heard was that there was lot of discontent amongst the soldiers over this and as such the GoP is taking the whole thing slowly incase there is absolute refusal by Frontier Corps and other Paramilitary Forces to operate there. But on the Kashmir side, the camps are very much prevalent and there is a hesitancy on GoPs behalf to take measures to close them down. This will definitely pose a problem

About the technical side I meant that transgression may be in terms of flying in next to the border where as per agreement no AC is allowed within 10 kms on either side in any case. That may be the case.

Also I do not agree that mapping of AD assets can be fully done on own side. Every side has levels of alert status and I think there maybe few assests that PAF and PA do not activate until and unless a clear transgression is made. That is SOP in majority of forces worl over. I may be wrong.

But the recent events of 2 days have made a strike likely in case there is no comprehensive action taken by GoP. India for once has the world opinion completely on its side over the issue and it is not a long time before the GoI has to take action in order not to appear weak to the masses. The Gen elections in all probability are in April, and they may take a mauling over the flip-flop attitude of GoP and GoI being patient.