IAF pilots to evaluate Boeing's F-18 warplanes

[Neo]

Now back to the topic please.
Thanks!

 

[imiakhtar]

i don't know about the PAF training standards but the IAF has currently got 50+ (and more are on the way) IAF pilots at RAF valley on Anglesey being trained in advanced tactics by some of the best pilots in the world.

 

[Janbaz]

If the F-18 Hornets are picked by IAF it shall prove to be a new chapter in miltary acquisitons in the subcontinent as PAF usually went for American jets. After this it might be Pakistan for Russian jets and India for American. Well this is my point of view please comment on scenerios.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistan is going to go for a mix since we don't face the same either this or either that choice.

China has long been okay with us buying from the Americans. If we buy Russian, Russia only has to benefit from it. Americans are the only ones that interfere, but our stance has already been known to them that us buying from the Chinese is a higher priority than us buying from the Americans.

In a purely hypothetical scenario, If Pakistan ever bought the Mig-35 in the future, Americans won't have any justification in interfering since even Pakistan was opposed to Americans selling F-18s to India.

Quite frankly Indians buying from The Americans, only aides us in the future. It might win a stronger lobby in America for them but Indians are already stronger from all the business they provide them.

The Mig-29 OVT seems like a better bird. It also keeps Indians their Russian alliance. It also prevents us from having a chip against the Americans and hence justification for our mixed purchases from American adversaries.

I can't imagine why so much time has been spent on just making a decision with such simple factors in front of them. How badly does India want to align with America that it has had to think so much?

Again, on the political front India gains by going with Russia in the short term. In the long term (which is so uncertain when it comes to global politics) it may be thinking the 126 planes deal might be able to turn the American foreign policy radically against Pakistan. For which it might wait till the 2008 elections, even to make a deal.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[Janbaz]

I have question. Why do not we buy Chinese made J11 jets that are derived from SU 27 as we have flown Mig 21 derived F7's etc. Mig 21 is Russian as you know.

 

[Awesome]

Chinese J-11 (aka Su-27s?) were tested against the J-10 and the J-10 kicked their butt. J-10s would struggle against the Flanker, we do not need something even lower than that.

With the F-16 order, JF-17 joint production venture and the J-10 procurement deals going smooth, we need to be on the look out for something better than the J-10 and the F-16 now. Although there has been no signal from the Air Force camp. I think they'd not want to put their feet in so many boats right now.

So I think the only answer to India's Su-30MKI's are going to be to take the F-16s and the J-10s on a defensive role and boosting them up with the the air defences along with the Erieyes. PAF is not thinking offensive right now, which isn't a good thing but it is understandable. Since we're not much of a potent force right now at all. With these three new birds and with India procuring either the F-18 or the Mig-29 OVT in the near future, I'd say India would still not dare launch a full scale air attack. It's going to be an interesting next two decades and will probably play out somewhat like that.

The change would come by the future American, Russian and Chinese planes. Since when they are put on sale, they WILL be bought.

 

[Owais]

The change would come by the future American, Russian and Chinese planes. Since when they are put on sale, they WILL be bought.

The American planes in PAF will be History after F-16s. PAF's Future will be Chinese jets like J-10A/C.
Also, there is a need of "U-Turn" in policies of both countries (Russia and pakistan) to get such "Hi-Tech" for PAF.

 

[vnomad]

So I think the only answer to India's Su-30MKI's are going to be to take the F-16s and the J-10s on a defensive role and boosting them up with the the air defences along with the Erieyes. PAF is not thinking offensive right now, which isn't a good thing but it is understandable. Since we're not much of a potent force right now at all. With these three new birds and with India procuring either the F-18 or the Mig-29 OVT in the near future, I'd say India would still not dare launch a full scale air attack. It's going to be an interesting next two decades and will probably play out somewhat like that.

The numbers of aircraft being inducted by the IAF is massive. What is going to deter the IAF? What numbers of F-16C/Ds are going to be inducted? Enough to counter 150MKIs?
The MRCA is most likely to be split. The majority will be MiG-35s. The MiGs are being offered with a complete TOT which means that the sub-systems onboard will be Indian, Israeli and French. The result could well be an aircraft much superior to the MKI. A lower number of Rafales/F-18s will be inducted. I'm discounting the F-16 block 70, Gripen and Typhoon.
F-16 - Operated by PAF so IAF's not very interested
Typhoons - Induction of small numbers is unfeasible
Gripen - Not really top-end so induction will be illogical

The F-18s have a big advantage of an AESA onboard and excellent scope for upgrades. The Rafale's advantage meanwhile is that it can be inducted using modified Mirage-2000 infrastructure and will be accompanied by Meteors and ASRAAMs.

Will the J-10s be able to counter the MiG 35 and Rafales/F-18? I doubt it.

 

[vnomad]

but accoding to my knowledge, F16 block 52 is better than F18E/F in A to A missions.

Not when the F-18s have an AESA onboard. The F-18E/F also has some stealth features unlike the older F-18.

 

[vnomad]

I can't believe u quoting wikipedia, that is such an unrelliable source, anyone can go in their and change things lol.

Which is why I stated very clearly that the figures were from the CIA worldbook.

Plz..we all know u got pwned in wars , except the 71' which was a different scenario.

Please back up your one liner with an explanation.

 

[Janbaz]

After 2020 the PAF future are stealth jets but who knows where they shall
come from. American Raptors or F-35's, maybe French Neuron's, Russian PAK-FA's
or the obvious JXX. Very interesting years ahead as brother Asim has mentioned.

 

[Awesome]

The numbers of aircraft being inducted by the IAF is massive. What is going to deter the IAF? What numbers of F-16C/Ds are going to be inducted? Enough to counter 150MKIs?
The MRCA is most likely to be split. The majority will be MiG-35s. The MiGs are being offered with a complete TOT which means that the sub-systems onboard will be Indian, Israeli and French. The result could well be an aircraft much superior to the MKI. A lower number of Rafales/F-18s will be inducted. I'm discounting the F-16 block 70, Gripen and Typhoon.
F-16 - Operated by PAF so IAF's not very interested
Typhoons - Induction of small numbers is unfeasible
Gripen - Not really top-end so induction will be illogical

The F-18s have a big advantage of an AESA onboard and excellent scope for upgrades. The Rafale's advantage meanwhile is that it can be inducted using modified Mirage-2000 infrastructure and will be accompanied by Meteors and ASRAAMs.

Will the J-10s be able to counter the MiG 35 and Rafales/F-18? I doubt it.

Numbers being inducted by the IAF is massive? India currently operates a massive number and with its aging birds its 32 squadron strength has already fallen to 29 and is expected to rest at 25. Pakistan is expected to go from 19 to 26.

Even if India is able to change its future a little bit, the gap between IAF and PAF would be a lot less than what it was. J-10s seem promising. I doubt they'd flank the flanker but they should be able to give a punch through the rest of the IAF's fighting force.

 

[Janbaz]

Yes, The MKI's do not dominate the whole subcontinent. India only flies
about 60 SU 30's and a heck of alot of MIG 21's 23's and 27's plus
tons of Jaguars. LCA is a long time away and even if F-18's are ordered it shall
take them a lifetime to reach India while PAF is getting JF-17's, F-16's soon
and J-10's after 2010. Our destiny of glory awaits us same as our marvelous
past.:GUNS:

 

[Quwa]

The numbers of aircraft being inducted by the IAF is massive. What is going to deter the IAF? What numbers of F-16C/Ds are going to be inducted? Enough to counter 150MKIs?

PAF will operate at least 96 F-16A/B MLU3 and F-16C/D Block 52+; although the IAF is inducting 150 Su-30MKIs - it will also retire at least 200-250 older aircraft. The F-16s would be armed with the best BVRAAM and WVRAAM systems and supported by Link 16 w/Erieye AEW&C, in a defensive scenario such a combination would be near impossible to break; even for something as giant and hyped as SU-30MKI. Do not discount the fact that as a Major Non-NATO ally the PAF is able to acquire used F-16A/B/C/D airframes and simply pay 15-20mn USD per unit to give them a CCIP or MLU3 upgrade. Such an advantage could be used quite heavily and can reinforce the F-16 fleet; and the PAF's F-16 fleet would be as good as half of NATO's fleet in terms of datalink and weapon systems.

The MRCA is most likely to be split. The majority will be MiG-35s. The MiGs are being offered with a complete TOT which means that the sub-systems onboard will be Indian, Israeli and French. The result could well be an aircraft much superior to the MKI. A lower number of Rafales/F-18s will be inducted.

They might be split, but that would be a backward move in terms of integration; fighters are simply becoming more and more expensive to maintain, and air forces are moving towards decreasing the number of types they operate. For the IAF to split their MRCA between F/A-18E/F and MiG-35, two aircraft which are expensive to maintain and would require IAF to start from near or complete scratch to induct would be an expensive and very time consuming job. That would be going against trying to maintain parity with the PAF, because the risk is that if IAF finally inducted their twin-trio - the PAF might be moving onto 5th Generation aircraft.

The F-18s have a big advantage of an AESA onboard and excellent scope for upgrades. The Rafale's advantage meanwhile is that it can be inducted using modified Mirage-2000 infrastructure and will be accompanied by Meteors and ASRAAMs.

The F/A-18E/F's disadvantage lies within the fact that it is expensive to maintain (in contrast to F-16E/F Desert Falcon or Mirage 2000-9) as well as very expensive to procure. Rafale is an entirely different aircraft from the Mirage 2000, the IAF will need to build the Rafale's infrastructure from complete scratch; and being the twin-engine French fighter it is, it is also expensive to procure and maintain. In fact, Flight International put the Super Hornet's and Rafale's unit costs at $90-100mn and $140mn+ respectively.

To be honest, IAF's better bet would be induct a huge number of Mirage 2000s and upgrade them to -5Mk2 or -9 standards; while diverting their MRCAs to a single type - may it be Super Hornet, MiG-35, Rafale or Eurofighter.

Will the J-10s be able to counter the MiG 35 and Rafales/F-18? I doubt it.

The J-10 will be able to counter the MiG-35, Su-30MKI and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet if given the adequate avionics, ECM/EW suite and radar; as well as adequate weapon-systems and datalink w/AEW&C coverage. The J-10 is China's base concept for its future 4.5 Generation Super J-10/J-10C. However if IAF does procure Rafale or F/A-18E/F, then it is likely the PAF would take the financial risk and procure a limited number of Eurofighters or Rafales (like it did with the Mirage IIIs in the mid-1960s).

 

[Contrarian]

Numbers being inducted by the IAF is massive? India currently operates a massive number and with its aging birds its 32 squadron strength has already fallen to 29 and is expected to rest at 25. Pakistan is expected to go from 19 to 26.

Even if India is able to change its future a little bit, the gap between IAF and PAF would be a lot less than what it was. J-10s seem promising. I doubt they'd flank the flanker but they should be able to give a punch through the rest of the IAF's fighting force.

The main thing is that the qualitative edge is increasing!! even though the numerical edge is decreasing!

the weird thing here is that every1 mentions the old a/c's that India has by saying that loads of indian planes are old, what they FORGET that Pakistan TOO has as many old planes percentage wrt to its new ones.Fact of the matter is...we have already ordered the 150 MKI's with the production also shifting to Russia for a faster rate. And the MKI's are UNRIVALLED in the subcontinent and will remain so for a very long time.The MRCA's number has been increased to roughly around 200, the rest for the Navy! and we'r ALSO looking at planes for the time being to fill the role till the MRCA's come!! So in the end the numerical superiority will remain and the qualitative superiority will increase!

Even the older a/c's like jags, etc have been upgraded to a HUGE level!, the'v not been left the way they were before, new technologie's have been added to almost all of them . Equipping most of them with BVR capabilities!, capabilities that even the NEW PAF fighters still dont have. So they'r still worth their weight in gold in Pakistan's question.

The government is spending and is gonna spend so much more on the AF, that such has never been imagined earlier!