IAF pilots to evaluate Boeing's F-18 warplanes

[vnomad]

@ vnomad

"And what do you base your assumption on? There is no evidence whatsoever that Pakistani pilots are superior to Indian ones. Flying is not a genetic quality so you can't bring the martial races nonsense into this argument."

U need to search further even an Israeli AF commander who fought in the arab-israel was said thank god those pilots weren't egyptian that they were pakistan, alll u need to do is go and search, and even Chuck Yager said PAF was better, i don't have time to search right now but i will bring up the quotes from them and not from wikipedia.

History does not mean a thing. How many pilots who flew in '65 do you have flying in the PAF today? Does the PAF spend more on its pilots than the IAF? What specific thing does it have that the IAF doesn't?

The MRCA deal is no threat to PAF or pakistan by the time all 126 MRCA fighters are delivered to the IAF, the PAF will be well into the procurement plan for the next generation fighter.

The contract for the MRCA is expected to be out this month. And if it splits induction will be even faster. By 2015 we will have the bulk of the planes in our inventory. What 5th generation aircraft will be serving in the PAF that time? India is already working on a 5th generation aircraft unlike Pakistan.

Exactly what Kaiser said is what i'm trying to say, this will be a game back and forth, if India acquires something pak will get something to counter it better sams or Jets, this is always a back and forth game!

Difference being India's military budget is four and a half times that of Pakistan.

Why is india buying so many planes?
isnt it sad that people are dying of hunger and poverty, yet this kind of behavior is not understandable.

Just for the record India's spending on defence is less than Pakistan's as a % of the national budget.

I am happy India is spending all that money on the military hardware. Firstly, it exposes the Indian design to dominate her smaller neighbours and secondly it illustrates her warmongering nature. I will be ecstatic if India purchases more and more US made hardware. During any war between India and Pakistan; US would put a ban on the sale of spare parts to both the countries and Pakistan would no longer be at the disadvantage which was the case during 65 and 71 wars.

You see the MRCA contract states that manufacture of spares will take place in India. We will not have a spares problem.
India incidently has a lot of influence in the US. We are unlikely to be under any sanction.

 

[Contrarian]

@BUll

"Its a mind game played by the IAF to speed up the MRCA deal.There is no pilot unrest,it was a inflated report from B B C,as the booming civilian sector was running short of pilots."

Are u on crack lol, ur Bhindistan news also reported this..

@malaymishra123

Pakistan didn't only contribute only money they worked on this plane aswell, ur Bhindi mind is just jealous ur tri-cycle can't take off.

And u say what we did u did with SU-30 long ago, lol moron that plane was already their with proven design all u did was add different avionics bought from 2 other different counttired and some by u.

"Do u think the Russians will become your frnds if we buy US stuff?? think again...selling old outdates engines is diff than selling cutting edge technology."

The engine given to us is an upgrade of RD-33 jahal hindu.

Also, what makes u think US would give ToT even if u go for their hardware lol, they barely given any ToTs away unless they are useless tech thats being given. U Bhindi's need to look at facts not us!

And again we are going to replace our old jets with FJ-17 and J-10, weren't going to keep them so get ur head straight!

next time u call me a ''jahal hindu'', i'l officially request the mods to ban you...i havent resorted to calling u by ur religion or any of the stereotypes that go with it...

as far as developing the planes
the JF-17 etc are ALSO BASED ON ALREADY EXISTING DESIGNS, one of them is the LAVI project(confirmed), the other is from Mig 33 design design i think(seen wikipedia, is indeed a mig 33 based project). Like i said, making your OWN plane is a whole different game.

oh and i state the differences and improvements of MKI below...as u can see, this is a HELL OF A LOT DIFFERENT than just electronics, this is almost a redesign of the plane.
and Ahem!, the MKI has and i quote:
The aircraft was jointly designed by Russia's Sukhoi and India's HAL.
India exercised its Su-30 MKIs
Improvements

* Canard Foreplanes:Canards are installed to increase lifting effectiveness and enhance manoeuvrability of the aircraft, They are deflected automatically to ensure controllable flight at high angles-of-attack.
* Thrust Vectoring Control: The 2D TVC makes an aircraft highly maneuverable. The aircraft is capable of near-zero airspeed at high angles of attack and dynamic aerobatics in negative speeds up to 200 km/h.
* The N011-M Bars phased array Radar.
* A multi-national Avionics complex sourced from Russia, France,Israel and India which include Display, Navigation, Targeting and Electronic warfare systems.

More than 40 Su-30 MKI aircraft are currently serving in the IAF, and belong to different batches- Mk.1, Mk.2 and Mk.3.

190 Su-30 MKIs, of Mk.3 standards and beyond, are expected to be in service by 2012.

MKI Comparison with other Su-30 variants

* The Su-30 MKI has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 8000 km. The Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 have a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 5200 km (35% less than MKI variant).
* The Su-30MKI has thrust vectoring engines whereas the Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 do not have thrust vectoring engines.
* The maximum speed of the MKI is higher than other variants.
* The radar range & detection is further and more sensitive than other variants.
* MKI can track and engage more enemy targets simultaneously than other variants

So as you can see, we increased the whole shabang for Su-30
also stated by wiki:

The MKI version is the ultimate development of the Su-30 series, and regarded as superior in capabilities to all versions of F-15 aircraft of the USAF.

I DONT THINK HALF OF ALL THIS COULD BE SAID FOR THE REGULAR Su-30!!!!
hehe!

now about US not giving us ToT...that is why i said that just cuz US is offering everything, doesnt mean we'l jump in the bed with them, we will buy only what is required from them, like the P8 MMA that Boeing said would be tailored to our requirements for the Indian Ocean.

Bull, no point arguing, explaining to him about the severe shortage of pilots in India is useless....i dont think he understands the concept of a BOOMING AVIATION INDUSTRY. and many many many private airlines, bloody lucrative offers for pilots in the aviation industry, or other such things.

About replacing your old jets with JF-17 and J-10 and retiring the oldies...this is JUST what Bull and I are saying, that you and every1 else conveniently forgot that our declining squadron strengths is BECAUSE the old ones are not being taken into account whereas ALL OF PAF's jets, old and new, including the ones that are planned to be inducted, but are not yet there have been taken into account...that is the reason for the discrepency...do u get me NOW?? no1 is removing the old PAF planes from the calculations cuz PAF is not phasing them out as fast as us...their gonna operate them for a hack of a long time...

i commend the russians for selling u those engines, better that they have the money from Pakistan than any other country as they are our allies.Those engines are nowhere NEAR the cutting edge ones, have they sold u the Al31 or even offered you? do u think that they ever will?? prolly when they get as old as the RD 33 ones.LOL.......dream on...Russia will never sell you advanced electronics or their military planes unless u wanna buy Mig 21's.

 

[Awesome]

History does not mean a thing. How many pilots who flew in '65 do you have flying in the PAF today? Does the PAF spend more on its pilots than the IAF? What specific thing does it have that the IAF doesn't?

Two things come to mind that I read somewhere long back.

1. Pakistan follows an American training style. Right from the time when Chuck Yeager groomed the early PAF, it has kind of been that way ever since.

2. India's dependence upon BVR combat. For a long time, Pakistan did not have the BVR ability and India had trained just for that. Pakistan AF until recently has just been a WVR force.

That said. Neither does IAF's bigger planes, nor does our past account to anything in declaring who has better pilots. It's been quite a while since we squared off each other. Only one way to find out

The contract for the MRCA is expected to be out this month. And if it splits induction will be even faster. By 2015 we will have the bulk of the planes in our inventory. What 5th generation aircraft will be serving in the PAF that time? India is already working on a 5th generation aircraft unlike Pakistan.

Make the LCA first. How much you want to bet, by the time India comes near to the 5th gen fighter we'd have already inducted something like the Super J-10 or any J-XX.

China's hot on working out a Thrust Vectoring solution for the J-10. Make no mistake the second Su-30 flanker killer is going to be operated by China/Pakistan.

Tell me what MRCA is India ordering that'll be a bigger threat than what it already possesses the Su-30MKI?

Difference being India's military budget is four and a half times that of Pakistan.

It's defence needs are even larger. You're not counting China's defence expenditure being spent towards arming Pakistan against India. You're also forgetting that the R&D costs that China saves us.

 

[Awesome]

i havent resorted to calling u by ur religion or any of the stereotypes that go with it...

And we are thankful for it

What is a South Asia forum where Indians and Pakistanis can't go at each other in a political debate. But only those would be taken seriously here, those who learn to maintain a degree of adversarial respect.

 

[Neo]

next time u call me a ''jahal hindu'', i'l officially request the mods to ban you...

You won't have to malay, we'll deal with him properly.

I havent resorted to calling u by ur religion or any of the stereotypes that go with it...

I can confirm that and thank you for it! :thumbsup:

 

[Contrarian]

Make the LCA first. How much you want to bet, by the time India comes near to the 5th gen fighter we'd have already inducted something like the Super J-10 or any J-XX.

China's hot on working out a Thrust Vectoring solution for the J-10. Make no mistake the second Su-30 flanker killer is going to be operated by China/Pakistan.

Mate, LCA was totally Indian, we'r going JV for the 5th gen fighter with Russia, just like the Su-30MKI is a JV, just like BrahMos is a JV...so its gonna kick some serious a$$ And we'r deciding these things NOW, Pakistan will only decide them after a decade or so atleast, by that time, we'l HAVE our 5th fighters along with the steady induction of the MRCA's ordered. Not to mention the PAK-FA or the Su T-50, which is another of the Russian 5th gen airplanes is already in its advanced stages! that is why we didnt go for it, we'r gonna go with the MiG 5th gen fighter...Russia is designing 2! and we can always buy the PAK-FA along with our own 5th gen fighter with MiG!! , China hasnt even begun anything about its 5th gen plane mate. Not to mention that China is VERY new in the aircraft business....to develop 5th gen craft, its gonna take China a LOT of time, especially with the arms embargo imposed by the U.S.

You can gauge the fact that the Berkut was considered as the technology demonstrator for the PAK-FA, it will be made in max of a decade! at the MAXIMUM, or with a modest amount of luck in 5.

India ALREADY has thrust vectoring for its MKI!!
the MKI can defeat F-15's!, its gonna take china a while to come up with something that can kill the MKI...the rhetoric is only that since India has it, it can be matched easily, if the USAF was using the MKI, then people would have thought it as an invincible plane. It would be USAF's prime fighter like the F-15 is now.

you know how the MKI turned out and in such short time
you can bet that the 5th gen fighter will rock every1's world!
we'l hopefully have 2 , 5th gen fighters...one PAK-FA and the other the MiG fighter.You know how our JV's with Russia turn out to be

again i beg people to just read what Wikipedia says about the Su-30 MKI to clear up some facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-30MKI

Tell me what MRCA is India ordering that'll be a bigger threat than what it already possesses the Su-30MKI?

The point is mate, that teh MRCA in max probability will again be tailored and upgraded so much so that it cant be recognised, just like India did with its Su's. Thats why we'r considering the fact that we may even go in the end with the Typhoon(not likely) or Rafale(very likely cuz its carrier capabilities).

It's defence needs are even larger. You're not counting China's defence expenditure being spent towards arming Pakistan against India. You're also forgetting that the R&D costs that China saves us.

Yes mate, the same way Russia saves us our RnD, but at some point you HAVE to start to develop your indigenous capabilities!, no matter how much the help by others, i repeat, Pakistan will have its own attempt at LCA oone day when it has the capability.There is simply no escaping it. India also spends additional copious amounts for just foreign procurements...a much smaller amount is required for the maintenance.

I'l give you an idea how our defense budget works...the govt goes ahead and signs deals like gorshkov, phalcon, etc, the army, navy and AF decide, and in the next year budget, the govt allocates funds for these already signed acquisitions, so it HAS to pay them in addition for the regular amount for the maintenance of the army, etc. Thats is the only reason our defence budget is rising so dramatically, because we'r getting so many new things, all this is apart from the maintenace required. Consider this, the army has the same number of people it had 5 years back, so it needs roughly the same amount, keeping inflation and some other factors in mind, the increase would be small.But the defence budget has increaed SO much from then, it only represents the money required to pay for the system's already bought. Now APART from all this, the government has decided to set up an individual fund from which the army, navy and AF can get weapons without consulting the govt, etc. So thats a **** load of money to buy with

 

[Contrarian]

You won't have to malay, we'll deal with him properly.

I can confirm that and thank you for it! :thumbsup:

thankyou guys, i really never expected such a fair treatment here, after viewing the PDF forums.

it is very humbling to know this.:pff:

again thanx

 

[Bull]

Agreed, lemme read up. There's been a debate about this amongst the moderating team and the admin. We want to show leniency and thats why a lot of people keep getting off the hook on this. But leniency is not a grant or a license to lose civility.

Its ok.Whats bothering me is that i cant read and comprehend what he said.

Ask him to use the quote feature and not his @..@ style.

 

[Bull]

Economically inefficient? Nothing to suggest that of late.

They are very bad decision makers,but its not the IAF which decides but the def ministry.

 

[Contrarian]

but the IAF decides the plane mate, isnt it? the def min only buys it with consultations, unless there are political considerations in mind too.

 

[Bull]

Make the LCA first. How much you want to bet, by the time India comes near to the 5th gen fighter we'd have already inducted something like the Super J-10 or any J-XX..

I am pessimistic about LCA,even if its inducted it would be to pamper the ego of the developers ego.

China's hot on working out a Thrust Vectoring solution for the J-10. Make no mistake the second Su-30 flanker killer is going to be operated by China/Pakistan..

MKI is not the end of the world.

Tell me what MRCA is India ordering that'll be a bigger threat than what it already possesses the Su-30MKI?.

Mostly it would be the Mig 35 and would carry the same avionics or better avionics than MKI.The diff wont be much.

It's defence needs are even larger. You're not counting China's defence expenditure being spent towards arming Pakistan against India. You're also forgetting that the R&D costs that China saves us.

You are making the same mistake again,never trust

 

[Bull]

but the IAF decides the plane mate, isnt it? the def min only buys it with consultations, unless there are political considerations in mind too.

Thye can decide after the defence ministry has given out the RFPs.And that has to be send out by Def ministry.

 

[Contrarian]

I am pessimistic about LCA,even if its inducted it would be to pamper the ego of the developers ego.

right, again, its necessary to induct a small number of LCA's so that the IAF can give output and analysis of the plane, will help a LOT in the next one. Again, the LCA is not related to the 5th gen.That is with Russia.This is compltetely different.

Thye can decide after the defence ministry has given out the RFPs.And that has to be send out by Def ministry.

Boeing said that they expect the RFQ by the end of the year.