IAF pilots to evaluate Boeing's F-18 warplanes

[Contrarian]

PAF will operate at least 96 F-16A/B MLU3 and F-16C/D Block 52+; although the IAF is inducting 150 Su-30MKIs - it will also retire at least 200-250 older aircraft. The F-16s would be armed with the best BVRAAM and WVRAAM systems and supported by Link 16 w/Erieye AEW&C, in a defensive scenario such a combination would be near impossible to break; even for something as giant and hyped as SU-30MKI. Do not discount the fact that as a Major Non-NATO ally the PAF is able to acquire used F-16A/B/C/D airframes and simply pay 15-20mn USD per unit to give them a CCIP or MLU3 upgrade. Such an advantage could be used quite heavily and can reinforce the F-16 fleet; and the PAF's F-16 fleet would be as good as half of NATO's fleet in terms of datalink and weapon systems.

Your forget that we have ordered the Phalcon AWACS, which are faar superior to the Erieye platforms! Which can supposedly jam the Erieye.
Not to mention the fact that for any AWAC to function properly , it needs to be in a area which has air superiority, sadly the pakistan airspace wont have airsuperiority of the PAF, which makes the Erieye, VERY vulnerable, most likely the PAF wont take it out. Even if they do, the Phalcon's would be waiting

You also forget the fact that we too have the latest BVRAAM and WVRAAM missles! and infact such missles are worthless if they are not supported by the fighters radar which has to be exceptionally good for this to work properly. Sadly even the new F-16 blk 52's lack this. the MKI has a monster radar which makes the WVR fights useless...it will pick and lock the F-16's and send BVR missiles. Also that the new MRCA's that we acquire, wont be the standard a/c's that every1 gets, they will be modified to a GREAT extent so as to make an MKI counterpart figuratatively. The best avionics will be put whether they be American, Israeli or French. The fighter would be made BETTER than the MKI , which itself is unparalelled in the region.

They might be split, but that would be a backward move in terms of integration; fighters are simply becoming more and more expensive to maintain, and air forces are moving towards decreasing the number of types they operate. For the IAF to split their MRCA between F/A-18E/F and MiG-35, two aircraft which are expensive to maintain and would require IAF to start from near or complete scratch to induct would be an expensive and very time consuming job. That would be going against trying to maintain parity with the PAF, because the risk is that if IAF finally inducted their twin-trio - the PAF might be moving onto 5th Generation aircraft.

The Mig 35 or the Mig OVT, wont require us to rehaul our facilities.It will be able to use the existing Mig 29 facilities with minimum modifications. yes the F/A-18 E/F will require us to create new facilities, but these a/c's procured will be in much lesser quantity. And mate, Pakistan's desire for a true 5th gen craft remains a pipe dream whereas the GOI has ALREADY been approached by the Su corp for its PAK-FA which the govt declined and is going to go with the Mig corp's 5th gen a/c as a JV.This means no export without India's permission. Thus China certainly wont be getting it. Pakistan as of now doesnt even have a 4.5 gen a/c.

The F/A-18E/F's disadvantage lies within the fact that it is expensive to maintain (in contrast to F-16E/F Desert Falcon or Mirage 2000-9) as well as very expensive to procure. Rafale is an entirely different aircraft from the Mirage 2000, the IAF will need to build the Rafale's infrastructure from complete scratch; and being the twin-engine French fighter it is, it is also expensive to procure and maintain. In fact, Flight International put the Super Hornet's and Rafale's unit costs at $90-100mn and $140mn+ respectively.

The F/A-18 is one of the best Naval a/c's available today, and we have ordered around 200 a/c's. So maybe 126 mig 35 and the rest F-18 for the Navy! They are superb at the carriers and are ideally suited for that purpose.
Dont forget we also have a Carrier comming in with many Mig 29's upgraded! and we also have another carrier whose construction began ages back apart from the 1 Carrier that we already operate. So the F-18's maybe JUST what is required. So the ability to attack with lethality from the sea's too.

To be honest, IAF's better bet would be induct a huge number of Mirage 2000s and upgrade them to -5Mk2 or -9 standards; while diverting their MRCAs to a single type - may it be Super Hornet, MiG-35, Rafale or Eurofighter.

The J-10 will be able to counter the MiG-35, Su-30MKI and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet if given the adequate avionics, ECM/EW suite and radar; as well as adequate weapon-systems and datalink w/AEW&C coverage. The J-10 is China's base concept for its future 4.5 Generation Super J-10/J-10C. However if IAF does procure Rafale or F/A-18E/F, then it is likely the PAF would take the financial risk and procure a limited number of Eurofighters or Rafales (like it did with the Mirage IIIs in the mid-1960s).

The J-10 wont in any way be able to counter the MKI or Mig 35 (remember, it wont be the std Mig 35!, highly diff from the original like the Su 30 that China has(4th gen) and the Su 30MKI(which ALREADY IS true 4.5 gen)) as both have superior avionics and will get further improvements as time progesses.

 

[Awesome]

An edge would mean when compared to the PAF. The PAF is badly edged out qualitatively and quantitatively right now!

 

[munzo]

Hi there, my first ever post in this forum, have been out of touch from Pak military developments, but looking at the wider picture dude's..... armies cost money, and there is not a lot of it in Pakistan. A 50 million dollar F16 will make hundreds of schools, feeds hundreds of thousands and builds new roads. What good are all the weapons when the people remain poor, illitrate, hungry and without work. An arms race with India will not be in Pakistans interest, there is a deterent in nuclear weapons, sufficient military hardware..... build the factories, educate the people, cloth and feed them. That is the first priority, nations crumble when people think a few more guns will solve their problems. It never has!

 

[usama]

Hi there, my first ever post in this forum, have been out of touch from Pak military developments, but looking at the wider picture dude's..... armies cost money, and there is not a lot of it in Pakistan. A 50 million dollar F16 will make hundreds of schools, feeds hundreds of thousands and builds new roads. What good are all the weapons when the people remain poor, illitrate, hungry and without work. An arms race with India will not be in Pakistans interest, there is a deterent in nuclear weapons, sufficient military hardware..... build the factories, educate the people, cloth and feed them. That is the first priority, nations crumble when people think a few more guns will solve their problems. It never has!

I am with you munzo but i will add here that india is also not a rich country which can afford such a big number of a/cs, the majority of indian people live below the poverty line and it is the state where the death rate of people with TB is the highest in the world.my point is that they also need schools and hospitals like stuff.PAF is among the top of the airforces of the world not because of the aircrafts but due to it's training.Even in this century of advanced military technology i will say that it is not just the gun that matters but the man behind it.:flag:

 

[vnomad]

PAF will operate at least 96 F-16A/B MLU3 and F-16C/D Block 52+; although the IAF is inducting 150 Su-30MKIs - it will also retire at least 200-250 older aircraft. The F-16s would be armed with the best BVRAAM and WVRAAM systems and supported by Link 16 w/Erieye AEW&C, in a defensive scenario such a combination would be near impossible to break;even for something as giant and hyped as SU-30MKI. Do not discount the fact that as a Major Non-NATO ally the PAF is able to acquire used F-16A/B/C/D airframes and simply pay 15-20mn USD per unit to give them a CCIP or MLU3 upgrade. Such an advantage could be used quite heavily and can reinforce the F-16 fleet; and the PAF's F-16 fleet would be as good as half of NATO's fleet in terms of datalink and weapon systems.

How old are the F-16A/Bs? What radar do they carry (both A/Bs and C/Ds)? The Su-30MKI serves as a mini-AWACS and will be linked with the Phalcon. How do you think it will function against the F-16 - Erieye combo?

They might be split, but that would be a backward move in terms of integration; fighters are simply becoming more and more expensive to maintain, and air forces are moving towards decreasing the number of types they operate. For the IAF to split their MRCA between F/A-18E/F and MiG-35, two aircraft which are expensive to maintain and would require IAF to start from near or complete scratch to induct would be an expensive and very time consuming job. That would be going against trying to maintain parity with the PAF, because the risk is that if IAF finally inducted their twin-trio - the PAF might be moving onto 5th Generation aircraft.

The MiG 35 induction wouldn't take all that much time. The IAF already operates the MiG-29. It is an assumption that induction of the F/A-18 will be time-consuming. Say India goes for a mix of 75 MiG 35s and 45 F/A 18s. The F/A 18s would take say five years to be inducted. Which means the IAF could have them by 2012.

The F/A-18E/F's disadvantage lies within the fact that it is expensive to maintain (in contrast to F-16E/F Desert Falcon or Mirage 2000-9) as well as very expensive to procure.

The budget for the MRCA is expected to go up to $12-15 billion dollars. India's annual defence budget is $19 billion. I'm sure they can be afforded.

Rafale is an entirely different aircraft from the Mirage 2000, the IAF will need to build the Rafale's infrastructure from complete scratch; and being the twin-engine French fighter it is, it is also expensive to procure and maintain.

I'm just broadcasting Dassaults pitch mate. They were the ones claiming that the Mirage lines could be modified for the Rafale. I'm sure they weren't attempting to con the MoD.

To be honest, IAF's better bet would be induct a huge number of Mirage 2000s and upgrade them to -5Mk2 or -9 standards; while diverting their MRCAs to a single type - may it be Super Hornet, MiG-35, Rafale or Eurofighter.

The Mirages are no longer in production I believe. The MiG 35 would be a decent alternative to the Mirage. Which ofcourse brings us back to
MiG 35+Rafale.

However if IAF does procure Rafale or F/A-18E/F, then it is likely the PAF would take the financial risk and procure a limited number of Eurofighters or Rafales (like it did with the Mirage IIIs in the mid-1960s).

Can the PAF afford it? The Indian defence budget is over four times that of Pakistan. What is the PAFs share of the booty?

 

[PakSniper]

I'm not a huge fan of air force i'm mostly a ground war lover

But what i can say technological advantage is good, but it can only do so much, but u forget that the man sitting behind the machine is more valuable. U can have a monster radar, but some missiles go a certain distance and stuff correct me if i'm wrong.

Having Mig-29 / Su-30MK / and F/a-18

yes nice fancy planes, but it comes down to skills. just like Mig alley korean war mig's were better planes than the sabres, but when it came down to the fight it was the pilot, i was watching a documentry on history channel, it said sabre had a technological advantage, but the pilots for migs had poor training and strategy but it said if given in the right hands it was a very deadly plane.

Even with the Awac's detecing planes early allows u to formulate a plan, before engaging.. and

@malaymishra123 (back up the below claim)

I know ur getting them, but the jaming part we need proof!

"Your forget that we have ordered the Phalcon AWACS, which are faar superior to the Erieye platforms! Which can supposedly jam the Erieye.
Not to mention the fact that for any AWAC to function properly , it needs to be in a area which has air superiority, sadly the pakistan airspace wont have airsuperiority of the PAF, which makes the Erieye, VERY vulnerable, most likely the PAF wont take it out. Even if they do, the Phalcon's would be waiting"

Also remember, India will never get air-superiority over PAF we have better pilots, and with new jets soon to come in the future with upgrades and stuff, pakistan will get it's technological edge back again to a certain extent, and don't down play the j-10 it is a good plane from what we see from the specs, and it is BVR, and remember it can be fitted with Russian radar or the chinese ones.

and Fc-1 will also be upgraded in the future to make it better.

And about this

Your forget that we have ordered the Phalcon AWACS, which are faar superior to the Erieye platforms! Which can supposedly jam the Erieye.

plz..don't over exgerate things if phalon can jam so can paks', when it's acquired.

Also, during war time Pak can resupply with spares, faster than india can, and build more planes to replace lost ones which india can't even on the ground.

Considering LCA is a failure!

 

[Quwa]

How old are the F-16A/Bs? What radar do they carry (both A/Bs and C/Ds)? The Su-30MKI serves as a mini-AWACS and will be linked with the Phalcon. How do you think it will function against the F-16 - Erieye combo?

Don't kid yourself with age and size, both the A/Bs and C/Ds will be avionically on par with each other - both aircraft will carry AN/APG-68(V9). Tell me this though, what chance does a fighter as large as the Su-30MKI have over Pakistani skies if it has to deal with closely linked low-altitude fighters armed with JHMCS/WVRAAM combo as well as BVRAAM backed Erieye? It does not matter if Su-30MKI is a mini-AWACS - because at the end of the day an AWACS will need protection from enemies.

The MiG 35 induction wouldn't take all that much time. The IAF already operates the MiG-29. It is an assumption that induction of the F/A-18 will be time-consuming. Say India goes for a mix of 75 MiG 35s and 45 F/A 18s. The F/A 18s would take say five years to be inducted. Which means the IAF could have them by 2012.

MiG-35 is a new version of MiG-29, there will be key differences - it is like the F-16C/D and F-16A/B; at the end of the day the IAF will have to construct new infrastructure for the MiGs due to new technology. Not to mention the fact that the IAF will have to build additional infrastructure to maintain additional MiGs. With regards to the Hornet, it is entirely new to the IAF maintenance and doctrine line - the IAF has NEVER operated an American fighter jet - let alone the Hornet series. It will take the IAF longer than 5 years to induct 45 F/A-18E/Fs; the best case scenario would be 3-4 years setting up the infrastructure and receiving the initial batch, and another 3-4 years in receiving the rest. That is a minimum of six years, and with the IAF's track record - it will take a lot longer than six years.

The budget for the MRCA is expected to go up to $12-15 billion dollars. India's annual defence budget is $19 billion. I'm sure they can be afforded.

The budget hike will also have to deal with the maintenance of the incredibly expensive Flanker, a very large navy that has lots of acquisitions, the IAF's maintenance costs to keep the aircraft it has in service - it all drains down. What would depend is how much the Indian gov't is willing to allocate for future acquisitions, i.e seperate funds. To get the Indian gov't approval would take the IAF YEARS - like the BAe Hawk deal? Or the IN Scorpene deal?

I'm just broadcasting Dassaults pitch mate. They were the ones claiming that the Mirage lines could be modified for the Rafale. I'm sure they weren't attempting to con the MoD.

Then provide the source.

The Mirages are no longer in production I believe. The MiG 35 would be a decent alternative to the Mirage. Which ofcourse brings us back to
MiG 35+Rafale.

Mirage 2000s - buy them used, which seems to be what the IAF wants to do now.

Can the PAF afford it? The Indian defence budget is over four times that of Pakistan. What is the PAFs share of the booty?

India might have four times the budget, but India also has to maintain an army which is twice the size of Pakistan's, an air force which is three times the size of Pakistan's, and a Navy which is five times the size. Maintenance costs drain up a lot of Indian Gov't's annual funds, not to mention logistical costs (due to India's large geographic size). So at the end of the day the Indian military does not end up with a lot to spend on additional procurements, and must request additional gov't funding through the MoD.

Pakistan's defence budget is spent on maintenance, logistics and operations; for acquisitions, the gov't must approve additional financing. So while Pakistan's budget is around 3.5bn USD to 4bn USD, if you add the annual payments for fighter planes, tanks, submarines, ships and other weapon systems, the defence expenditure is at around at least 5bn USD a year. As the military procures more advanced weapons that are more expensive to maintain; as well as strengthening its logistical set-up and training - then you will see expenditure go up to $6bn USD to $7bn USD a year. However you may count that overall expenditure as a total amount - i.e a mix of Pakistani and external funds.

If worse comes to worse with regards to IAF's procurements (i.e IAF procuring a 4.5 generation fighter), then the PAF would seriously consider a squadron (or two) of Rafales or Eurofighters. Back in the late 1960s, the Mirage III purchase was considered incredibly expensive, but nonetheless the PAF procured 24 machines.

 

[PakSniper]

Plus, in past articles if u search the site, IAF has been having alot of problems

Thread Thread Starter

Indian air force 'lacks planes' Neo
Pilot unrest in India's air force: At least 200 pilots want to quit! A.Rahman

few thread with links, i mean India itself isn't in a good shape, also remember different missiles could be deployed to take out each others air-bases and damage the planes like Cruise missiles for example

but as i said i'm mostly a ground war person, air force doesn't interest me much, after seeing hezbullah and isro fight, who has the most technological army in the world got stuck, i view airforce impotant to a certain extent!

 

[Contrarian]

I'm not a huge fan of air force i'm mostly a ground war lover

But what i can say technological advantage is good, but it can only do so much, but u forget that the man sitting behind the machine is more valuable. U can have a monster radar, but some missiles go a certain distance and stuff correct me if i'm wrong.

Having Mig-29 / Su-30MK / and F/a-18

yes nice fancy planes, but it comes down to skills. just like Mig alley korean war mig's were better planes than the sabres, but when it came down to the fight it was the pilot, i was watching a documentry on history channel, it said sabre had a technological advantage, but the pilots for migs had poor training and strategy but it said if given in the right hands it was a very deadly plane.

bro, India has already ordered new AJT's for the AF, many pilots are undergoing training in UK. We are having SOOOO many war games with other countries, that its safe to say that the IAF pilots are VERY well prepared and well trained. I dont think we have heard of the PAF having war games with any country, wwhich is essential as any auhority will tell you to keep the pilots sharp!. This is only going to go up with the induction of Hawks! Pakistan still uses old infrastructure with no plans for any new training inductions in sight....and though u may not agree with my statements above, u will agree that more money spent on trainings results in better pilots, thereby validating the new acquisitions. The days have come that pilot skill starts counting for less and less, even though i say that IAF pilots are better on account of training given to them and the flight hours logged which are more than the PAF, assuming that PAF pilots are indeed better , what would be the use as WVR fights are declining, the probability is that their bird will get shot down before they even see the enemy.This is where teh PLANE comes into play and this is EXACTLY what the IAF is gearing up for. And let me remind you how in the 65 war, the PAF has much more advanced planes like the starfighter etc which were downed by mere gnats, pilot skill u were saying??

Even with the Awac's detecing planes early allows u to formulate a plan, before engaging.. and

@malaymishra123 (back up the below claim)

I know ur getting them, but the jaming part we need proof!

"Your forget that we have ordered the Phalcon AWACS, which are faar superior to the Erieye platforms! Which can supposedly jam the Erieye.
Not to mention the fact that for any AWAC to function properly , it needs to be in a area which has air superiority, sadly the pakistan airspace wont have airsuperiority of the PAF, which makes the Erieye, VERY vulnerable, most likely the PAF wont take it out. Even if they do, the Phalcon's would be waiting"

Also remember, India will never get air-superiority over PAF we have better pilots, and with new jets soon to come in the future with upgrades and stuff, pakistan will get it's technological edge back again to a certain extent, and don't down play the j-10 it is a good plane from what we see from the specs, and it is BVR, and remember it can be fitted with Russian radar or the chinese ones.

Air superiority depends on 2 things: qualitative and quantitative edge of planes and the pilot skill.

1.Mate, by the time u get new jets, we too will have ordered or gotten new jets!,Upgraded the old one's to new extents, the fact is our old upgraded jets can take on anything in the PAF inventory as of now. Its a continuous game and i dont think Pakistan will ever be able to match up because of the sheer size of the money we spend to get these toys. J-10 is at BEST a gen 4 plane(refer wikipedia and u will realise what im saying), dont try to hype it up. Only the Fc-20 WHEN u get it will be able to challenge the MKI, and by that time, the IAF would'v gone way ahead.

2. National pride dictates us to say that each of our pilots are the best, but bear in mind, though the Pakistani pilots are no doubt very good, their quality is restrained by the technology available to practice and help them. That is teh reason India has gone for the AJT's from UK and the Navy is also considering buying an AJT. Pakistan is behind on this front mate.

and Fc-1 will also be upgraded in the future to make it better.

And about this

Your forget that we have ordered the Phalcon AWACS, which are faar superior to the Erieye platforms! Which can supposedly jam the Erieye.

plz..don't over exgerate things if phalon can jam so can paks', when it's acquired.

Also, during war time Pak can resupply with spares, faster than india can, and build more planes to replace lost ones which india can't even on the ground.

Mate, that is the REASON i used the word 'supposedly'. But by all means search in google and u will find that Erieye's are way out of the league of Phalcons. There is no ambiguity on this issue. Remember, it was the Phalcons which the United States denied to be sold to China from Israel.

Considering LCA is a failure!

Says WHO? i have stated in my previous posts, that no1 knows the exact status of the LCA, it may turn out to be EXACTLY what the IAF is looking for or it may turn out to be an utter failure.You cant tell now, what was IMPORTANT in this thing is that it represents out ability to MAKE a plane. We have designed, produced, done everything on the plane ourselves.Thus the experience gained is INVALUABLE. The LCA maybe termed as a technology demonstrator for face saving or whatever. We made a plane ourselves.Its a hell of a lot different from any JV that can be done including the MKI. Pakistan as of yet does not have the capability to do so and will not for a long time to come. Co-developing the plane with any1 is not quite cutting it. As it is our first plane, it wont be as good, but subsequently the planes that are made will be awssome and will reduce our dependence on any other country!! :banana2:

 

[Contrarian]

If worse comes to worse with regards to IAF's procurements (i.e IAF procuring a 4.5 generation fighter), then the PAF would seriously consider a squadron (or two) of Rafales or Eurofighters. Back in the late 1960s, the Mirage III purchase was considered incredibly expensive, but nonetheless the PAF procured 24 machines.

Dude, check your book, IAF ALREADY has 4.5 gen fighter crafts. The MKI is a 4.5 gen a/c, its in a different league altogether from the Su-30 , or the chinese Su-30 MK/MKK. U cant even compare them. Use wikipedia and u wil get teh answers. And the IAF is GOING to get around 190 Su-30 MKI's

so it will be a long wait till the time the PAF will have anything to counter it, the J-10 can certainly not even dream to do so. Prolly the FC-20 i have heard about. And most probably by that time India will have gone ahead full steam with getting a 5th gen aircraft.

India might have four times the budget, but India also has to maintain an army which is twice the size of Pakistan's, an air force which is three times the size of Pakistan's, and a Navy which is five times the size. Maintenance costs drain up a lot of Indian Gov't's annual funds, not to mention logistical costs (due to India's large geographic size). So at the end of the day the Indian military does not end up with a lot to spend on additional procurements, and must request additional gov't funding through the MoD.

Pakistan's defence budget is spent on maintenance, logistics and operations; for acquisitions, the gov't must approve additional financing. So while Pakistan's budget is around 3.5bn USD to 4bn USD, if you add the annual payments for fighter planes, tanks, submarines, ships and other weapon systems, the defence expenditure is at around at least 5bn USD a year. As the military procures more advanced weapons that are more expensive to maintain; as well as strengthening its logistical set-up and training - then you will see expenditure go up to $6bn USD to $7bn USD a year. However you may count that overall expenditure as a total amount - i.e a mix of Pakistani and external funds.

The maintenance for the army by and large does not increase too much over the years, however our defense budget has been growing at a considerable rate. All the new money pumped in is just so that the army can go for MODERNIZATION and the IAF and Navy can get new toys! ALSO the govt decided to set up a fund , at the discretion of the chief's that they can procure anything from that fund without hassles. The Navy and IAF also have these additional amounts alloted to them. And to imagine that the Army , IAF and Navy wanted even MORE money to spend. They are going on a shopping spree mate, preparing for a LOT more than Pakistan.

Mate dragonking, what are u getting at?
The lack of planes thing is exactly the reason that the IAF decided to go for huge numbers of planes and those that are qualitatively way ahead than anything Pakistan has.

The pilots wanting to quit is heresay, the ACM has categorically denied such things, the incidents have been few where the pilot wanted to join commerical airlines. And this JUST represents how our pprivate industry is fledgeling and our economy booming!!

 

[PakSniper]

"join commerical airlines. And this JUST represents how our pprivate industry is fledgeling and our economy booming!"

What a bunch of bull LOL..u indians really like to make things up

Economy part might be true but private industry lol thats the bull part!

 

[PakSniper]

Improvements

* Canard Foreplanes:Canards are installed to increase lifting effectiveness and enhance manoeuvrability of the aircraft, They are deflected automatically to ensure flight at high angle-of-attack.
* Thrust Vectoring Control: The 2D TVC makes an aircraft highly maneuverable. The aircraft is capable of near-zero airspeed at high angles of attack and dynamic aerobatics in negative speeds up to 200 km/h.
* The N011-M Bars Radar for the Su 30 MKI is a phased array system with a powerful processor and multiple targets track capability using NCTR methods. It can track 20 Targets and Engage 8 targets.
* Integration with Western Avionics:France and Israel supplied Latest Avionics including Display, Navigation, Targeting and Electronic warfare systems.
* Su-30MKI is similar to Su-30MK in other factors like Long Range, High Payload, Aerodynamic configuration.

MKI Comparison with other Su-30 variants

* The Su-30 MKI has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 8000 km. The Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 5200 km (35% less than MKI variant).
* The Su-30MKI has thrust vectoring engines whereas the Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 do not have thrust vectoring engines.
* The maximum speed of the MKI is higher than other variants.
* The radar range & detection is further and more sensitive than other variants.
* MKI can track and engage more enemy targets simultaneously than other variants.

Also :::
For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21, for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km.

So, their F-16 has a good detection range almost as the Su-30MKI


@malyamishra123

Not much from my eye's just better electronics, and longer combat range, but still depends on the pilot.

"Pakistan still uses old infrastructure with no plans for any new training inductions in sight"

what makes u claim these accusations are u in PAF ? Plz..talk about what u know, some of us don't know what PAF is doing and others don't know aswell..

--

But unlike India, pakistan doesnt cry about what the other is acquiring we know we can take India on, not everything is decided in the air, but also with China heading up in the tech industry, we can soon acquire those tech also

Last but no least, Pak and india have different requirements and objectives, what works of india doesn't work for pak, and vice verse!

Also read this at the middle of site in tactis those russians even say it comes up to the pilot..

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html

1 last thing before i go to sleep .. about those air force exercises.. read this carefully even US said that they were flying with restrictions and that the indians had them out numbered (meaning they let india use more jets then them), so technically India can't boast about it's Su-30MKIs cause US was at a disadvantage and they used fewer jets

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-iaf-usaf-su30-f15-article01.html

 

[Contrarian]

"join commerical airlines. And this JUST represents how our pprivate industry is fledgeling and our economy booming!"

What a bunch of bull LOL..u indians really like to make things up

Economy part might be true but private industry lol thats the bull part!

what do u mean that "but private industry lol thats the bull part!"??

the economy is booming BECAUSE of the private industry!!
do u know the amount of Airline's that have started in India recently?????????
i highly doubt it...do you know that BOTH the national carriers, Air India and Indian have ordered new Airbus's and Boeing's. Do u know each of these contracts for the national carriers ALONE is worth Billions.I think the recent acquisitions were around $12 Billion. All the new airlines have ordered new planes. All our existing airports are SWAMPED because of teh increased amount of air traffic in India. We are building NEW airports in all the metros and many many level II cities!!!. So many many of these level II cities are now connected to international destinations.There is no need to go to the metros for international flights!

eg: http://www.bialairport.com/
Second airport in the same city, international standards, not even open yet. read it.

Read ANY study , it will give u an idea how the private industry is BOOMING in the aviation sector. Not to mention the fact that the study will show you HOW MUCH this sector is expected to grow in India in the next decade, its bloody amazing!!!There is a SEVERE shortage of commercial pilots due to which foreign pilots are being recruited.
http://investinginindianews.blogspot.com/2006/07/indian-aviation-soaring-into-greater.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4634091.stm

http://silkboard.wordpress.com/2006/06/03/the-aviation-boom/

many more, due to all this the country's airports are literally crippled.The infrastrucure is creaking. Thus the new infrastructure being built. Do u know that India has DOUBLED its infrastructure spending in the last 2 years itself! just because of the increase of the private players in the economy and thus need for better infrastructure. We are way behind China, but we have realised this now and are going full steam ahead in it. You have no idea about the work being done here...you can say India is under construction right now.Countless fly-overs, underpasses, airports, ports, railways, roads, mass transit systems in every major city, etc, etc, etc. The DMRC(Delhi metro rail corp) is now being asked to act as a consultant the WORLD OVER for new metro systems, as it is one of the BEST metro's in the world and is relatively to other countries metros, bloody cheap.


Now onto the MKI
u say quoted by wikipedia i think, that the MKI has search range of 350 km and an f-16 has 140 km, then how can u even call them comparable??????

again i repeat...read discussions in pdf too, f-16's cant match the MKI, neither can the JF-17
http://*********************.com/index.php?showtopic=27843

also
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f16-f18-su30-1.html

i repeat, f-16 , etc are 4 gen a/c, MKI is 4.5 gen a/c!

better electronics and longer range make a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in fighter a/c! MKI has better missles, range, radar, , engine, EW systems, speed, what more do u want man??

it does come in the end to the pilots....but do u think that an EXCELLENT pilot sitting in a Mig 21 can beat a raptor...technology is the name of the game mate, especially with BVR, dogfights are going passe!

i doubt that India fielded the MKI with USAF, it was the M, MKK...the MKI was fielded only with the Brits, and that too not at full capacity, many of the features were turned off.

and i say that Pakistan is lagging in terms of trainings because of no news so far with relation to purchasing of any new fighter trainer in Pakistan for a long while(Correct me if i am wrong tho mate). India went for Hawk only so that the training imparted is of the best standard.Any new infrastrucure added is in the news, so far there has been none, i would be glad if you could tell me if there has indeed been such a development.


Oh and Actually mate, Pakistan DOES INDEED cry whenever India goes for a high tech acquisition. Remember when we were going to buy the Phalcons and Green pine from Israel, Pakistan made a HUGE fuss of it to the US and others saying it would upset the balance of the region and what not.So dont say Pakistan doesnt cry! And fyi, its teh ACM's job to be concerned about whatever the others get and update his fleet accordingly. India has to plan wrt China my friend, Pakistan is not the main country in focus

 

[Awesome]

We do not keep these weapons for fun. India keeps them and we're forced to keep a minimum deterrence level in response. Every single one of us would rather want this money to go to schools, hospitals, disease research, etc. But what we really want in spite of that is to not be invaded and have our lands taken over.

Pakistan didn't even want to go nuclear. Even offered to disarm if India did.

 

[Contrarian]

Therein lies the basic difference mate.Whereas Pakistan just wants a credible conventional weapons deterrence ,India aspires to be a regional super power, the needs are VERY different.India thus has to spend more in order to influence other nations. The country knows its going to go towards greatness, the military is simply preparing for it. We NEED and WANT to have an excellent military. Thus it is simply foolish to compare India and Pakistan in terms of military prowess. India does not wish to attack Pakistan, all it wishes is for the Kashmir problem to be solved, but every now and then whent he peace process moves forward, a madachod terrorist blows something and kills innocents and this is when the GoI gets infuriated and wants to take Pakistan. Terrorists are the only people harming Pakistan's image everywhere and making its threat perception go up. Kashmir can be solved by simply making the LoC as IB, but nationalists and zealots from both sides make this a near impossible task.

you also have to understand mate, India's security concern is not based essentially on a Pakistani threat but on a Chinese threat. It is of no use if Pakistan disarmed its nuclear weapons, for us it is important that China does so. And China sees the United States as a threat and will not do so until the United States does so. Its a weird game.