IAEA, Hypocrisy and Israeli Nukes.

[secularbuster]

First, stop your hypocrisy and call for all nuclear weapons countries to dismantle, including Pakistan, India and North Korea.

Second, if you do not want a nuclear weapons in the ME, support the international pressure on Iran to stop its nuclear weapons development, including the military option, if necessary.

Third, I have a surprise for you: Israel supports NWFZ in the ME. Yes, that's right. Israel is ready for that after there would be a lasting peace between it and all the countries in ME, including Iran.

Until these desired times, divert your attention to much more urgent nuclear problems around the world (mainly Pakistan and North Korea). Israel never used or threatened to use nukes against of its kind and considerate Arab neighbours. Israel is a responsible country that aspires for peace and stability in the Middle East.

Hypocrisy is israel's another name and you're telling others to stop hypocrisy!!! Israel can commit terrorism against the Palestinians on daily basis and then go on to arm itself with every kind of WMD and then lecture Muslim states not to have a nucler deterrent against the israeli WMDs, that is HYPOCRISY. BTW this is not america or Europe where you can cover your crimes by singing "Oh, I'm Jewish" song!

 

[nirreich]

Hypocrisy is israel's another name and you're telling others to stop hypocrisy!!! Israel can commit terrorism against the Palestinians on daily basis and then go on to arm itself with every kind of WMD and then lecture Muslim states not to have a nucler deterrent against the israeli WMDs, that is HYPOCRISY. BTW this is not america or Europe where you can cover your crimes by singing "Oh, I'm Jewish" song!

Hypocrisy is to single out Israel while ignoring other nuclear weapons state. You continue with your double standard and avoiding any explanation of your deceitful opinion.

Writing your pathetic position in bold and bigger fonts will not make it accurate or an opinion which should be respected.

The only one who is crying here is you who choose every tactic on earth just to avoid sincere discussion and simple explanation about the illogic of your opinion. Oh, you wish you could be in Europe and not in the impoverished country of Bangladesh.

 

[Solomon2]

Hypocrisy is israel's another name and you're telling others to stop hypocrisy!!! Israel can commit terrorism against the Palestinians on daily basis and then go on to arm itself with every kind of WMD and then lecture Muslim states not to have a nucler deterrent against the israeli WMDs, that is HYPOCRISY.

No, that's circular reasoning. The challenge is now for you to convince everybody why your opinion should be respected.

 

[secularbuster]

No, that's circular reasoning. The challenge is now for you to convince everybody why your opinion should be respected.

A challenge from a hypocrite is not a challenge but deceit!

 

[nirreich]

A challenge from a hypocrite is not a challenge but deceit!

What are you talking about? I asked you a simple question and you are doing everything not to deliver a simple answer.

For the hundred time:

You argue that Israel is not allowed to have nuclear weapons because it "terrorises" the Palestinians. So, why Iran is entitle to have nukes while it oppresses its people? Why you do not call Pakistan, China and North Korea to dismantle as a result of their human rights violations?

What is more hypercritical than the above position???

 

[Solomon2]

A challenge from a hypocrite is not a challenge but deceit!

Even if you believe I'm a hypocrite, fish need to swim in water to survive. Deal with it.

 

[secularbuster]

What are you talking about? I asked you a simple question and you are doing everything not to deliver a simple answer.

For the hundred time:

You argue that Israel is not allowed to have nuclear weapons because it "terrorises" the Palestinians. So, why Iran is entitle to have nukes while it oppresses its people? Why you do not call Pakistan, China and North Korea to dismantle as a result of their human rights violations?

What is more hypercritical than the above position???

Israel is in a league of its own as far as terrorism and oppression are concerned, israel is another Nazi Germany! So don't compare other countries with israel.

 

[nirreich]

Israel is in a league of its own as far as terrorism and oppression are concerned, israel is another Nazi Germany! So don't compare other countries with israel.

Oh, finally we are getting some progress here.

So now you claim that Israel is the new Nazi Germany and thus not deserve to have WMD.

What a deep and original idea. Good for you!

Now, all you need to do is deliver the necessary proofs and I will be the first to deny my Israeli citizenship and ask asylum in the wonderful and prosperous country of Bangladesh.

For a sharp mind like you it should not be a problem to present how Israel is worst than Iran, Pakistan, China and North Korea.

However, If as I expect you fail to do that, then we would be able to establish your mendacity and your hypocrisy towards Israel and heavily suspect that you are another case of a brained-wash anti-Semite.

 

[silko]

First, stop your hypocrisy and call for all nuclear weapons countries to dismantle, including Pakistan, India and North Korea.

Second, if you do not want a nuclear weapons in the ME, support the international pressure on Iran to stop its nuclear weapons development, including the military option, if necessary.

Third, I have a surprise for you: Israel supports NWFZ in the ME. Yes, that's right. Israel is ready for that after there would be a lasting peace between it and all the countries in ME, including Iran.

Until these desired times, divert your attention to much more urgent nuclear problems around the world (mainly Pakistan and North Korea). Israel never used or threatened to use nukes against of its kind and considerate Arab neighbours. Israel is a responsible country that aspires for peace and stability in the Middle East.

well, since most of the countries in the middle east doesn't consider pakistan and north korea as a threat i dont care what they do! but i know that israel will use it if a big power attacks it, and i dont want to get cancer when i go visit turkey just becuase some stupid israelis dont want to die!

as far as i know, there is not a single evidence that iran have made nuclear bombs, so i dont se them as a threat to my nation. however israel i see as a threat not only to my nation but to the entire midle east because they are the only one with nukes!

and what is NWFZ?

 

[nirreich]

well, since most of the countries in the middle east doesn't consider pakistan and north korea as a threat i dont care what they do! but i know that israel will use it if a big power attacks it, and i dont want to get cancer when i go visit turkey just becuase some stupid israelis dont want to die!

as far as i know, there is not a single evidence that iran have made nuclear bombs, so i dont se them as a threat to my nation. however israel i see as a threat not only to my nation but to the entire midle east because they are the only one with nukes!

and what is NWFZ?

First of all let me apologise for Israel's aspiration to survive, I forgot it is a privilege reserved only to Turks and their proteges.

You can visit Turkey with no fear, Israel is a responsible country and never threatened any country with nuclear attack. If you believe that Israel will defend itself from an attack of a big power, then support Israel's efforts for a lasting peace in the Middle East and you would have less reasons to worry about. According to all assessments, Israel is a nuclear weapons state for more than 40 years, and it never used this capabilities to destabilise the Middle East (not that the Arabs need any help with that...).

There are plenty of evidence that Iran developed clandestine nuclear programme in a sole objective to acquire nuclear weapons. You mistakenly do not perceive nuclear Iran as a threat, but it is a threat not just to Israel but to the Middle East and to global stability. Luckily for the world the decision if to stop Iran is not in the hands of Turkey, but in the hands of the US and Israel.

 

[Solomon2]

as far as i know, there is not a single evidence that iran have made nuclear bombs, so i dont se them as a threat to my nation.

...in the long term and in reality, Israel poses absolutely no strategic threat to Turkey. Nor does the United States. Nor does Europe. Iran, however, poses a massive threat—and all evidence suggests that the Ottomans would have perfectly understood this. It is Iran, not Turkey, that may plausibly be seen to be advancing both a coherent Islamist agenda and realistic, rational, long-term plan to establish itself as the region’s economic and diplomatic hegemon. It is Iran’s leadership, not Turkey’s, that in fact knows the region well.

What the AKP seems to be missing is this: Iran’s emergence as a nuclear state will overturn the entire regional power equilibrium. Turkey’s vulnerability to this is the most pronounced in NATO, and the AKP’s nonchalance about this is astounding. Neither a massive conventional army nor “strategic depth” are of the slightest value against weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, which is precisely why Iran wants them in the first place—obviously.

When Turkish spokesmen say they cannot imagine circumstances under which Iran would employ such weapons against Turkey, they are either disingenuous or stupid. One need not actually launch a nuclear weapon to change the strategic landscape. A nuclear-armed Iran would unhesitatingly begin exporting Shi’a radicalism throughout the region, and Turkey is part of the region. Iran has tried this before: The Turkish military ended up deporting the mullahs, but then, they could...

...Islamism does play a part in the AKP’s doctrine. But it is more heuristically useful to use this as your starting assumption: They don’t have a doctrine. Certainly, the leadership hopes to assume a leading role in the Islamic world and the Middle East economy. There is in fact a major obstacle in their way, but they don’t want to think about it. They genuinely believe the Iranian threat is exaggerated. They have persuaded themselves that the world is alarmed about Iran only because it’s an Islamic country, and they know Islamic countries better. And besides, they need the money, now. “Our long-term political interests have been subdued by our short-term interests,” one diplomat lamented...Over and over, the same themes emerge: naiveté, wishful thinking, and sheer incompetence, which no one is pointing out because everyone is swallowing the AKP’s line: “Trust us, we know what we’re doing!” Unfortunately, this is not a strategic doctrine: It’s just famous last words. link

 

[silko]

First of all let me apologise for Israel's aspiration to survive, I forgot it is a privilege reserved only to Turks and their proteges.

You can visit Turkey with no fear, Israel is a responsible country and never threatened any country with nuclear attack. If you believe that Israel will defend itself from an attack of a big power, then support Israel's efforts for a lasting peace in the Middle East and you would have less reasons to worry about. According to all assessments, Israel is a nuclear weapons state for more than 40 years, and it never used this capabilities to destabilise the Middle East (not that the Arabs need any help with that...).

There are plenty of evidence that Iran developed clandestine nuclear programme in a sole objective to acquire nuclear weapons. You mistakenly do not perceive nuclear Iran as a threat, but it is a threat not just to Israel but to the Middle East and to global stability. Luckily for the world the decision if to stop Iran is not in the hands of Turkey, but in the hands of the US and Israel.

i think we started very bad, my apologizes. let's start this over again!

aspiration to survive? from what exactly, you have crushed all arab resistans against you for over 60 years. and that with a smaller army and against several countries from several areas. not only have you crushed them but you have also gained land! what more can you ask for? nukes aren't neccesary. and beside, arent USA backing you up?

 

[silko]

...in the long term and in reality, Israel poses absolutely no strategic threat to Turkey. Nor does the United States. Nor does Europe. Iran, however, poses a massive threat—and all evidence suggests that the Ottomans would have perfectly understood this. It is Iran, not Turkey, that may plausibly be seen to be advancing both a coherent Islamist agenda and realistic, rational, long-term plan to establish itself as the region’s economic and diplomatic hegemon. It is Iran’s leadership, not Turkey’s, that in fact knows the region well.

What the AKP seems to be missing is this: Iran’s emergence as a nuclear state will overturn the entire regional power equilibrium. Turkey’s vulnerability to this is the most pronounced in NATO, and the AKP’s nonchalance about this is astounding. Neither a massive conventional army nor “strategic depth” are of the slightest value against weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, which is precisely why Iran wants them in the first place—obviously.

When Turkish spokesmen say they cannot imagine circumstances under which Iran would employ such weapons against Turkey, they are either disingenuous or stupid. One need not actually launch a nuclear weapon to change the strategic landscape. A nuclear-armed Iran would unhesitatingly begin exporting Shi’a radicalism throughout the region, and Turkey is part of the region. Iran has tried this before: The Turkish military ended up deporting the mullahs, but then, they could...

...Islamism does play a part in the AKP’s doctrine. But it is more heuristically useful to use this as your starting assumption: They don’t have a doctrine. Certainly, the leadership hopes to assume a leading role in the Islamic world and the Middle East economy. There is in fact a major obstacle in their way, but they don’t want to think about it. They genuinely believe the Iranian threat is exaggerated. They have persuaded themselves that the world is alarmed about Iran only because it’s an Islamic country, and they know Islamic countries better. And besides, they need the money, now. “Our long-term political interests have been subdued by our short-term interests,” one diplomat lamented...Over and over, the same themes emerge: naiveté, wishful thinking, and sheer incompetence, which no one is pointing out because everyone is swallowing the AKP’s line: “Trust us, we know what we’re doing!” Unfortunately, this is not a strategic doctrine: It’s just famous last words. link

you cant say that USA is more important to iran than turkey. ottoman empire was a long time ago the same for the persians, you're right not every foreign affair with iran is the best! turkey needs to work on that part. but i have never heard AKP claim that they know everything, as far as i know, iran can dare to deply nukes against turkey. we do have nukes we to, but in a nato agreement! beside, your government is anctious and cant wait to attack iran, if iran poses a threat to turkey it poses a threat to USA's interests!

 

[nirreich]

i think we started very bad, my apologizes. let's start this over again!

aspiration to survive? from what exactly, you have crushed all arab resistans against you for over 60 years. and that with a smaller army and against several countries from several areas. not only have you crushed them but you have also gained land! what more can you ask for? nukes aren't neccesary. and beside, arent USA backing you up?

No need to apologise. Unfortunately, worse things are written in this forum (although I appreciate your self-admission in your mistake).

Even if I can agree to your general view, then why you are so concerned with Israel's allegedly nukes? Israel is not taking the advantage and using them to destabilise the Middle East or to interfere in the internal matters of other countries. Why you are not more concerned with Iran's nuclear programme in light of its objectives for regional dominance and its wide support for terror organisations that destabilise their host countries (like Hizbualla in Lebanon).

I agree that eventually Israel should dismantle its WMD programmes, but only when it could be sure than no one in the region would have motivation to eliminate it and might be tempted to develop nuclear weapons. This state of affairs can only be achieved once there would be full normalisation between Israel and all ME countries (including Iran).

Until these desired times, Israel so called nukes are not a threat to anyone, Israel is a responsible country with a stable democratic regime.

 

[Solomon2]

you cant say that USA is more important to iran than turkey.

We are "The Great Satan". Sounds most important, doesn't it?

iran can dare to deply nukes against turkey. we do have nukes we to, but in a nato agreement! beside, your government is anctious and cant wait to attack iran, if iran poses a threat to turkey it poses a threat to USA's interests!

So in your view if Iran is a threat to Turkey the U.S. should attack it without Turkey getting its own hands dirty? I thought the experience the Ottomans had in the 19th century - being the "sick man of Europe" relying on "friendly" Europeans to protect its sovereignty - had cured Turks of this sort of thinking. I guess I was wrong. Can't you imagine, if the writer I quoted is right, how Turks may suffer for this in the near future? Think of the devastation of the Kurdish war in S.E. Turkey, but in Istanbul itself - and because Iran will have nukes, Turkey won't dare to lift a finger to stop it.