i-Derby-ER new BVR missile for Tejas Mk-1A

[Basel]

The MkIA or whatever it's gonna be called,won't get any AESA,either Israeli or Indian and will continue to use the present El/M 2032 slotted planner array.The MkII (along with the Mig 29 UPGs may be) will get the production version of the Uttam AESA by LRDE.


The seeker is taking too much time,IAF can not wait that long.

But why new BVR if you already have many available in your inventory? Is Russian BVRs not compatible with LCA? Also MICA will come with Rafael they are also good too.

 

[45'22']

Why is than ferry range of LCA without IFR is 1700 km with 500Km with radius of Action

Ferry range doesnt matter

Combat radii is important and lca doesnt have much
For ex ...jags have a combat radius of 900+ km.....same goes for thunder with 1300km+ and mirage with 1500km+ radius

 

[Basel]

Pakistan is likely to have AMRAAM-D, SD-10, Adder and Alamo in future.

How is this missile in comparison to the above mentioned BVRs?

AIM-120D is not coming to PAF until US needs Pakistan desperately.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

If tejas is backed by awacs then cant it fire a bvr aam at a bird located say 100km away?

Of course it can, but the question to ask is
1. Point defence birds response to hostiles will have Awacs backing all the time or mini awacs backing (Su30MKI)
2. The No Escape Zone explained above in another post above, with higher NEZ and increasing chance of a kill even if hostile disenages comes with a higher cost of individual missile.
3. The altitude of engagement is very very important as higher altitude has lower air resistance then lower altitude. Thus this is why point 2 NEZ becomes important.

If you get terrain hugging bird coming in to your territory, most probably it wont get picked by Aerial Awacs but rather via a complex network of ground based radars and civilian ATCS of airports. Thus, immediate response would be 2-4 LCAs flying in with limited WVR and max Derby BVR. Unless flagged at a suspectable RCS size, the chances of an AWACS coming in to support and Derby ER becoming a part of LCA sortie is bleak.

Also cost of such extendaded range missiles with higher pk for better NEZ will be much higher than normal derby/python or mica combos or even Russian awesome missiles like R77 SD/MD combo

Let me tell you Fact that the Most Longest BVR Kill ever Made is not Beyond 60 Km.So Lets not Talk about 100 Km Exaggerated Range of BVRs this all Marketing Gimmicks


Generally Engineers and Scientist working on these Projects are Better Educated About the Situation than You & Me

excellent answer.. This is what the true BVR engagements mean. Only difference is over time, we may see high costly BVR missiles with extended range closer to 100kms which can truly be called LR BVRs

 

[cerberus]

For ex ...jags have a combat radius of 900+ km.....same goes for thunder with 1300km+ and mirage with 1500km+ radius

I thing you Mismanaged the Facts
Let me tell you the Figure you Quoted is For Total Radius of Action With IFR(In-Flight Refueling)ability
The 500 Km Combat Radius With Mission Load of 3500 Kg is For IOC-2 Configuration LCA.the Range will be Increased Double when IFR Probe will be Added to It.

As For JF-17 ,the Figures are Dubious Even F-16 Have Combat Radius of 550 Km

Also Combat Radius Can be Increased or Decreased According to External PayLoad

 

[MimophantSlayer]

How much range is extended??

 

[scientien]

Not really Teja will remain a 3rd generation aircraft with fourth generation avionics and armament - similar to JF-17

It would be MKI vs F-16 Block-52 in 4th gen.

Primary difference would be due to training and tactics.

U just made new classification,so u have 4.5 gen aero mechanical components too? Can you point me out what are those.

 

[Omega007]

But why new BVR if you already have many available in your inventory? Is Russian BVRs not compatible with LCA? Also MICA will come with Rafael they are also good too.

Good question,sadly I do not have any definite answer at the moment.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No love for the Astra??

Astra is still in advanced stage of development and that too on the MKI, integration with the LCA is a long term ambition. No point in holding up the LCA's induction for want of a BVR.

Not really Teja will remain a 3rd generation aircraft with fourth generation avionics and armament - similar to JF-17

It would be MKI vs F-16 Block-52 in 4th gen.

Primary difference would be due to training and tactics.

How is the LCA a 3rd generation aircraft? By every measure is 4th generation, the Mk.1P and Mk.2 versions are 4.5+

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Good question,sadly I do not have any definite answer at the moment.

Basel said: ↑
But why new BVR if you already have many available in your inventory? Is Russian BVRs not compatible with LCA? Also MICA will come with Rafael they are also good too.

@Basel too

Mica
GOI cleared the proposal to buy close to 500 MICA, a short and medium range air-to-air tactical missile manufactured by the French company, MBDA, for around Rs 6,600 crore. The government had earlier approved the Mirage upgrade deal
Now logically for 51 mirages 500 mica looks a bit too much. But i believe a part of these may be shared with Rafales (coming in whenever) in future
So perhaps we may not see Mica with LCA.

Russian R77 SD/MD perhaps similarity to Astra Mk1/2.

Derby/Python
The ground integration of the Israeli-made Python-5 too has been completed. Derby has also been integrated on to the aircraft. Tejas can carry two SR- AAM/ R73/Python 5 at the extreme end pods. The Derby (two missiles) is being integrated on the mid-board-pods of Tejas

Logically R77 should be integrated with LCA but due to some historical issues with handling and storing of R77, i dont know if they are so actively used as envisioned when procured. Today anyways there seems to be a better mix of options available ..I believe Mig29K and Su30MKI are using it. PSK said about R77 issues as The service life of the R-77 and AMRAAM are the same. But there is one critical component within each of these BVRAAMs that needs periodic servicing: the NiCad batteries responsible for supplying power to the active seeker and actuators. The NiCad battery typically has a shelf-life of eight years, but needs periodic testing at least once every year. For the R-27R/R family of BVRAAMs too the same is the case with the batteries, in addition to the cryogenic cooling system for the IR seeker (for the R-27T and R-73E). After checking up with the OEM (Vympel JSC), I've been informed by the OEM that the problem area is the on-board NiCad battery pack. To make matters worse, such NiCad batteries have not yet been indigenised despite the existence of in-house capabilities (HBL-Nife and High Energy Batteries being the two industrial entities that are currently supplying NiCad aircraft/missile batteries to the DRDO and armed forces).
And CAG rapped IN when they bought R77 just few in numbers (lol)

So obvious choice of replacing at least R77 is via Astra Mk1/2, so i see a more potential chacne of Astra integration in LCA over time

 

[ravindra1455]

Why is than ferry range of LCA without IFR is 1700 km with 500Km with radius of Action

what is a radius of action.

 

[cerberus]

what is a radius of action.

Combat Radius

 

[ravindra1455]

Why is than ferry range of LCA without IFR is 1700 km with 500Km with radius of Action

what is a radius of action.

Combat Radius

can a fighter come back after going that distance, back to home.

 

[cerberus]

what is a radius of action.


can a fighter come back after going that distance, back to home.

No,Combat Radius with Full Mission Load. it to be Limited withing This Radius Only

 

[ice_man]

what avionics package will the LCA have? probably integrating the russian R-77 with an israeli EL/M-2032 radar might be costly hence going with the whole israeli package.