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IAF to order around 100 more LCA Mark-1A fighter jets for over $8 billion

the first few moments after the tragedy Do we really need to rate a most competent fighter when Mirage 2000 dropped the bombs a day prior to the incident? Even PAF older generation of Mirages dropped the last-leg bombs.

During the feb, 2019 incident, there was only one effective fighter - F 16 with BVR missiles.

People are so emotional - Pakistanis do not want to listen against Jf 17 and Indians do not want against Hal Tejas.
The facts are: Current and retired Pakistani air force officials also said a JF-17 shot down an Indian MiG-21 during an air-to-air skirmish in February 2019. Not sure about SU30 or Heli, those were most likely shot down by F16 BVR.

Similar to JF 17, third generation, anytime and at any place they stand, they will be tagged with the same level. However, because people are ethnonational, how highly they rank their fighters depends on the nation to which they belong.

If it was so good, PAF would never needed to buy J10 aircraft. Currently, they are at standing at 3rd level.

1. 5th gen fighters
2. Rafale, EU fighter, Gripen, J 10, Su 35, ETC,..
3. HAl Tejas, Jf 17 ETC...

Su 30 Mki, F 16 are potential for 2nd level only but with better upgrades and sensors.
JF17 Block 3 is 4th Gen , that's not disputed by the Airforce community other than Indians.
 
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The facts are: Current and retired Pakistani air force officials also said a JF-17 shot down an Indian MiG-21 during an air-to-air skirmish in February 2019. Not sure about SU30 or Heli, those were most likely shot down by F16 BVR.


JF17 Block 3 is 4th Gen , that's not disputed by the Airforce community other than Indians.

JF17 Block 3 is 4th Gen ,
Even HAl Tejas by the Airforce community

The facts are: Current and retired Pakistani air force officials also said a JF-17 shot down an Indian MiG-21 during an air-to-air skirmish in February 2019. Not sure about SU30 or Heli, those were most likely shot down by F16 BVR.

This was only believed by the Pakistanis, as their military establishment sold it.

As per the available, facts, only Mig-21 was shot down by F-16 with BVR. ........ rest are just good stories.

I'm merely pointing out that the HAL Tejas Mk1a is inadequate to combat Chinese fighters, who have a variety of superior aircraft, including the J10 and improved Su 30/35 fighters, Chinese copied Su fighter variants.
 
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IAF banking on indigenous fighter aircraft to prevent numbers going below current level

The Indian Air Force (IAF), which has put its weight behind the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, is hoping for expedited deliveries and gearing up to place additional orders.

The move is to arrest the IAF’s fighter strength falling further, from the current 31 squadrons, in the medium term. By 2030, the IAF would have 32 or 33 fighter squadrons and would have 35 or 36 fighter squadrons by 2040 if the indigenous fighters meet the induction timeline, a Defence official said.

The IAF has a sanctioned fighter strength of 42 squadrons.

“An important lesson from the LCA programme is that support equipment is as important as the platform, if not more. LCA trainers are urgently required. We are expecting to receive eight LCA trainers by the end of this financial year,” a source said. IAF has inducted 32 LCA-Mk jets from earlier orders and deliveries of the 83 LCA-Mk1A ordered in 2021 are scheduled to begin in February 2024. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) officials said that the delivery of LCA trainers will be on track.

As reported in The Hindu earlier, IAF is looking to order an additional 90-100 LCA-Mk1A fighter jets or four squadrons. The additional jets are likely to be inducted from 2027-28 till 2031-32 by which time induction of the larger and more capable LCA-Mk2 is expected to commence, the official stated. This is on the basis that HAL would ramp up production rate to 24 aircraft per year and the additional order will ensure that assembly lines keep running before the LCA-Mk2 production goes into full swing. HAL has already set up two additional assembly lines.

As per the ₹47,000-crore deal with HAL signed in 2021 for 83 LCA-Mk1A, three LCA-Mk1A are scheduled to be delivered to the IAF at the end of this financial year and 16 aircraft per year for the subsequent five years.

Testing of equipment
The development of the LCA-Mk1A is on track, officials said. While the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is providing software, the IAF is assisting HAL with testing crew as well as test and range equipment. Two LCA jets from the IAF are with HAL flying with all the systems for testing incorporated into them, the official cited above said.

The IAF is taking a leap of faith in the development process, an IAF official said. “The indigenous Uttam radar under development and the indigenous Electronics Warfare suite, we want it in the LCA-MK1 itself. We are leaning on the DRDO and HAL that they be incorporated within this contract as it progresses,” the official said. For this, another contract has been given to DRDO. At each stage, the plan is to indigenise a component, the official said, and the ‘radar base plate’ is being indigenised right now.

Legacy fleets
As the new aircraft come in, several legacy fleets which are the mainstay will start phasing out. The three remaining MiG-21 squadrons will be phased out by 2025 and will be replaced with the LCA-Mk1A. In addition, the Jaguars, Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s will begin going out by the end of the decade. For instance, by 2027-28 the first of the MiG-29s, inducted in the late 1980s, will start being phased out and by the early 2040s, some of the earlier batch of SU-30 will also start being phased out. However, the SU-30 fleet which forms the bulk of the fighter fleet currently will remain relevant for the next 25 years up to 2050-55, officials said.

The LCA-Mk2 project received sanction from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) in September 2022 at a total cost of ₹9,000 crore and the first flight is expected in three years. It will have canards and be 1,350 mm longer, and can carry a payload of 6,500 kg compared to the 3,500 kg capacity of the Mk1. It will be powered by the General Electric F-414 engine, which produces 98 kN thrust compared to 84 kN thrust of the GE-404 engine powering the LCA-Mk1 and Mk1A. For Mk2, the IAF has asked HAL for certain modern technologies to be incorporated, especially related to sensor fusion and networking, officials said.

The fifth-generation fighter, Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), is currently awaiting CCS sanction, officials added and the development is expected to take a decade after that.

@Raj-Hindustani @Faceless @VkdIndian @indushek
 
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Any day - F 16 Block 52 fighter aircraft is better than these lightweight fighters (Jf-17 and Hal Tejas) with AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles.



I am not talking about 2030, I am talking about the next 20–30 years.

Since we have nuclear weapons, nobody will try to attack us at that moment. Particularly, we will have more fighter aircraft than the PAF, even with the lowest fighter squadrons.

It's just about 4-5 years, I'm nobody's to decide, but from my personal point of view, it would be a waste of money to put more on HAL Tejas Mk1a.... better to focus on AMCA and Tejas Mk2.

Example - Just upgrade Su 30 Mki with a better engine, Radar, and sensors, and with the Astra Mk2 (160 Km range), 250 + Su 30 Mki with such capability, even Chinese will not try to do any misadventures (upgrade within the next 5-6 years).

Even if the USA has been updating its fighter jets for decades and they are still deadly, I am not at all delighted for Indian babus because they love to go shoppings.
AIM-120 and Meteors can be integrated with Tejas.
Inducting 300 Tejas MK2 might not be feasible; the focus is on the MK1A which can be deployed in significant numbers, akin to the way the Mig-21 was in the past.
 
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IAF banking on indigenous fighter aircraft to prevent numbers going below current level

The Indian Air Force (IAF), which has put its weight behind the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, is hoping for expedited deliveries and gearing up to place additional orders.

The move is to arrest the IAF’s fighter strength falling further, from the current 31 squadrons, in the medium term. By 2030, the IAF would have 32 or 33 fighter squadrons and would have 35 or 36 fighter squadrons by 2040 if the indigenous fighters meet the induction timeline, a Defence official said.

The IAF has a sanctioned fighter strength of 42 squadrons.

“An important lesson from the LCA programme is that support equipment is as important as the platform, if not more. LCA trainers are urgently required. We are expecting to receive eight LCA trainers by the end of this financial year,” a source said. IAF has inducted 32 LCA-Mk jets from earlier orders and deliveries of the 83 LCA-Mk1A ordered in 2021 are scheduled to begin in February 2024. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) officials said that the delivery of LCA trainers will be on track.

As reported in The Hindu earlier, IAF is looking to order an additional 90-100 LCA-Mk1A fighter jets or four squadrons. The additional jets are likely to be inducted from 2027-28 till 2031-32 by which time induction of the larger and more capable LCA-Mk2 is expected to commence, the official stated. This is on the basis that HAL would ramp up production rate to 24 aircraft per year and the additional order will ensure that assembly lines keep running before the LCA-Mk2 production goes into full swing. HAL has already set up two additional assembly lines.

As per the ₹47,000-crore deal with HAL signed in 2021 for 83 LCA-Mk1A, three LCA-Mk1A are scheduled to be delivered to the IAF at the end of this financial year and 16 aircraft per year for the subsequent five years.

Testing of equipment
The development of the LCA-Mk1A is on track, officials said. While the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is providing software, the IAF is assisting HAL with testing crew as well as test and range equipment. Two LCA jets from the IAF are with HAL flying with all the systems for testing incorporated into them, the official cited above said.

The IAF is taking a leap of faith in the development process, an IAF official said. “The indigenous Uttam radar under development and the indigenous Electronics Warfare suite, we want it in the LCA-MK1 itself. We are leaning on the DRDO and HAL that they be incorporated within this contract as it progresses,” the official said. For this, another contract has been given to DRDO. At each stage, the plan is to indigenise a component, the official said, and the ‘radar base plate’ is being indigenised right now.

Legacy fleets
As the new aircraft come in, several legacy fleets which are the mainstay will start phasing out. The three remaining MiG-21 squadrons will be phased out by 2025 and will be replaced with the LCA-Mk1A. In addition, the Jaguars, Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s will begin going out by the end of the decade. For instance, by 2027-28 the first of the MiG-29s, inducted in the late 1980s, will start being phased out and by the early 2040s, some of the earlier batch of SU-30 will also start being phased out. However, the SU-30 fleet which forms the bulk of the fighter fleet currently will remain relevant for the next 25 years up to 2050-55, officials said.

The LCA-Mk2 project received sanction from the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) in September 2022 at a total cost of ₹9,000 crore and the first flight is expected in three years. It will have canards and be 1,350 mm longer, and can carry a payload of 6,500 kg compared to the 3,500 kg capacity of the Mk1. It will be powered by the General Electric F-414 engine, which produces 98 kN thrust compared to 84 kN thrust of the GE-404 engine powering the LCA-Mk1 and Mk1A. For Mk2, the IAF has asked HAL for certain modern technologies to be incorporated, especially related to sensor fusion and networking, officials said.

The fifth-generation fighter, Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), is currently awaiting CCS sanction, officials added and the development is expected to take a decade after that.

@Raj-Hindustani @Faceless @VkdIndian @indushek

@Raj-Hindustani
 
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Mig 29 upg and mirage 2000, not going anywhere before 2035.

And only I said that if hal mk2 available from 2030... Then why not go with them. Why go with a limited capable aircraft, mk1a?

Hal tejas is not good enough because it has her limitations to fight against better Airforce a like Chinese, It can be use for defensive role, but hal mk2 can use for both the purposes.
 
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Why go with a limited capable aircraft, mk1a?

Hal tejas is not good enough because it has her limitations to fight against better Airforce a like Chinese, It can be use for defensive role, but hal mk2 can use for both the purposes.
With the integration of BrahMos NG, DRDO SAAW & Rudram 2/3, it's standoff strike capability would see a quantum jump
Screenshot_20230826-171937_Chrome.jpg

1693120182219.png


 
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With the integration of BrahMos NG, DRDO SAAW & Rudram 2/3, it's standoff strike capability would see a quantum jump
View attachment 949018
View attachment 949019


Do you know combat range?

It's need external fuel tanks, with such heavy loads, I don't think it will have any Effective for deep strike.

Best of hal Tejas mk1a is for defense role within the indian border....

Not sure, again I am saying, why we need more mk1a when from 2030-31, mk2 will be available..

We need a true multirole fighter that even go deep inside Chinese lands, and will have more percentage of chance for safely return.
 
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Do you know combat range?

It's need external fuel tanks, with such heavy loads, I don't think it will have any Effective for deep strike.

Best of hal Tejas mk1a is for defense role within the indian border....
Screenshot_20230827-132450_Quora.jpg

*Slight correction: Combat radius of SU30 is 1500 km...baki saab thik hai

Combat radius of Tejas is more or less similar to J-10C and F-16.
Combat Radius: Commonly called Radius of Action,it is the max distance upto which a/c can go and comeback to base without refuelling , this is the point which the question is based upon.
The LCA Tejas Mk1/1A has a quadruplex digital fly-by-wire flight control system with associated flight control laws. Extensive use of uber-sophisticated composites in the airframe gives a high strength to weight ratio, long fatigue life and low radar signature
 
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Expect similar number as well for incoming Tejas Mark 2.

400 Tejas I believe will be the total number of plane ordered by Indian Air Force for Tejas program.

With this number, no need to worry about exporting the plane.
Should the Indian Air Force proceed to acquire these jets in substantial quantities, it's reasonable to predict a surge in export orders. This augmented procurement not only underscores the aircraft's dependability but also bolsters confidence in the post-purchase support services. My belief is that India will successfully develop an indigenous turbofan engine within a decade, considering their dedicated four-decade endeavor on the Kaveri turbofan engine. This achievement could considerably elevate the export potential of these domestically manufactured jets, making them less susceptible to American sanctions. While they are still relatively less vulnerable compared to F16s, thanks to the option of pre-purchasing engines and spare parts, the incorporation of an Indian-made engine in these jets would impart even greater assurance to potential buyers.
 
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IAF To Get 100 Additional Tejas Mk1A Fighter Jets — Implications
1693225375948.png

This has been a phenomenal week for the valiant defenders of our realm, for three reasons, all of which were overshadowed by the glorious success of Chandrayaan-3.

First, Swarajya reported on India’s tremendous progress in advanced, Gallium Nitride-based radar technology. Not only have we caught up with the world, but we are now edging ahead in a critical domain which is set to revolutionize and rewrite the rules of aerial warfare.

Second, an Indian-made Tejas fighter aircraft successfully test-fired an Indian-made Astra Mk1 air-to-air missile. This is one of the most sophisticated air-to-air missiles in the world (a deadlier Mk2 was tested last year, and an Mk3 is under development).

Third, and perhaps most significantly, media reports emerged that the Indian Air Force (IAF) will get an additional 100 Tejas Mk1A fighter jets. This is over and above the 83 Mk1A jets that are already on order.

Combined, the three reports indicate that India is all set to get a spanking new air force in the next five to six years. That is welcome news for a citizenry which had become resignedly used to watching the number of fighter squadrons dwindle alarmingly.

As proud as we were of Wing Commander Abhinandan’s exploits, during a dogfight with an F-16 of the Pakistani Air Force in February 2019, our collective unerasable regret was that he wouldn’t have been shot down if he had been flying something other than an aged Mig 21.

Unfortunately, that was the nadir the Indian Air Force had reached by 2019, courtesy a lost decade between 2004-2014 when no new fighter aircraft were procured, and the drive to develop homegrown platforms and systems was deplorably slothful.

From those dark days to now, when a month can’t pass without news of an advanced desi platform being inducted, a new desi missile being tested, an award of a sizeable defence contract to a private desi company, or a desi breakthrough in cutting-edge military technology, is the defining, undeniable change of the past nine years.

In proof, just as this piece was going to the press, and as if three major announcements weren’t enough for one week, came a remarkable report that the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was flight-testing an electronic warfare pod on a Tejas using next-generation Gallium Nitride technology!

So, what are the granular details and implications of these news items? The numbers first:
1693224913281.png

As on date, the Indian Air Force has placed firm orders for a total of 141 Tejas fighter jets. That is roughly eight squadrons (18 jets make an Indian squadron).

40 are the Mk1 type. Their delivery will be completed in this financial year. These carry an Israeli pulse doppler radar (readers may note that in today’s world, the quality of a jet’s radar matters more than its size, stealth or speed).

A squadron of 18 Tejas trainers have also been ordered. Delivery completion schedule is calendar year 2025.

83 are Mk1A jets. These are a significant improvement on the Mk1. Delivery of the first Mk1A jet is scheduled for early 2024, with order completion by 2028.

The Mk1A jets will carry an AESA radar; it is far more advanced than the pulse doppler ones which the trainers and Mk1s have.

Next is the second order of 100 Tejas Mk1A jets. with media reports saying that these additional 100 Mk1As will be delivered by 2031/32. These will sport DRDO’s upcoming pride – a Gallium Nitride Uttam AESA radar, which is exponentially more powerful than a Gallium Arsenide radar. They will allow a Tejas to land a mightier punch much earlier, from much farther away.

Now, our current production capacity is 24 Tejas jets per year (16 in Bengaluru and 8 in Nashik). Consequently, bearing in mind that the scheduled completion of the first order for 83 Mk1As is 2028, a 2031-32 timeline for an extra 100 Mk1As can be met only if more production lines are established.

This expansion of capacity is possible, and is under consideration by the government. There is talk of contracting a production line out to the private sector, or adding a new line at either Bengaluru or Nashik.

Another option is the unit at Koraput which makes SU-30 engines. Nonetheless, pending confirmation, we should currently assume that a more realistic delivery timeline for the additional 100 Mk1As would be 2032.

And finally, is the biggie in the works — the Tejas Mk2. The government is committed to atleast 120 of these jets, which will bristle with truly world-class systems presently being developed by DRDO — jammer pods, targeting pods, electronic countermeasure pods, counter-countermeasure pods, an entire family of Astra BVR missiles, the latest Uttam radar, an integrated electronic warfare suite, and an afterburning engine.

The first prototype is under construction, and production is expected by 2028-29. This means an order completion date of 2032-33.

In essence, the Tejas Mk2 will mark a spectacular coming together of various projects aggressively pursued by DRDO over the past decade. Put together, the IAF is set to acquire 20 squadrons of Tejas jets within the coming decade.

Separately, the IAF has 36 Rafale jets, and its backbone, the 260 Sukhoi-30 MKIs, is scheduled to receive a comprehensive, long-overdue upgrade over the next five years. Critically, this will include the Uttam radar.

Thus, the IAF will have 36 modern fighter squadrons, and for practical purposes only 36, since the bulk of the balance presently flying (Mig 21s, Jaguars, Mirages, and the Mig 29s) are expected to be retired in this decade.

The implications are manifold.

First, from within three years onwards, the IAF will start transforming into a modern fleet built and upgraded in India, with Indian airframes, avionics, weapons systems, and electronic warfare pods. Our average ‘first-look first-shot first-kill’ capabilities will rise significantly.

This implies a foregoing of further off-the-shelf purchases of foreign fighter jets, and is a sign that we will not wait for the next-generation stealthy Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) presently under development (it is doubtful if the first prototype of the AMCA will fly before 2028).

Second, it is clear from the procurement planning that we will overcome our shortfall in fighter jet numbers through advanced radars and missile systems. Our detection, interdiction, and standoff ranges (the distance from which a target can be hit) are set to rise greatly across the board, in more meaningful numbers.

This is a sea change from the days of Kargil when our Mirages had to come in high and dive steep to hit targets on Tiger Hill, bringing them within range of shoulder-fired missiles (which scored multiple hits).

Now, for example, a Tejas Mk1A kitted with an Uttam radar and an Astra missile can do far more damage to malintent than the planes it will replace, in a more cost-effective manner, in the air and on the ground.

Third, rising Tejas numbers, plus the advanced equipment they now carry, means that they will be at par with the Pakistani Air Force in quality and quantity. This leads to a major shift in operational planning: it frees up the Sukhois and Rafales to tackle China while the Tejas squadrons tackle Pakistan.

To this we must add two allied aspects — India’s rapid progress in establishing a vast, multi-layered air defence-cum-early warning network stretching from the Gulf of Kutch, through the Indo-Gangetic plains, into the Brahmaputra valley; and the equally rapid pace at which the new Rudram family of long-range anti-radiation missiles are being pressed into service with the IAF.

(The Rudram is primarily designed to destroy ground-based air defence installations and strategic missile silos. The MkIII has an air-launched range of over 500 kilometre, which means that it can strike across the Tibetan plateau into Xinjiang province without an IAF jet having to exit Indian airspace).

Combining all of the above, in conclusion, it is evident that the pieces are finally coming together. The painful legacy issues of a lost decade are being removed.

Our ability to tackle a two-front threat is increasing in leaps and bounds, as is our capacity to absorb losses in a full-fledged conflict. Dealing with two large, unfriendly, nuclear neighbours operating in tandem is not an easy task, but the efforts of the government, the armed forces, and our scientific community, over the past decade, show that it can be done.

This is a remarkable transition in progress, from a regrettable phase when a leadership failed to respond adequately to a truly existential threat by wishing it away, or bending over backwards in needless, counterproductive compromise, to one where the threat is clearly defined, and the military requirements to counter it are skilfully fashioned.
 
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Do you know combat range?

It's need external fuel tanks, with such heavy loads, I don't think it will have any Effective for deep strike.

Best of hal Tejas mk1a is for defense role within the indian border....

Not sure, again I am saying, why we need more mk1a when from 2030-31, mk2 will be available..

We need a true multirole fighter that even go deep inside Chinese lands, and will have more percentage of chance for safely return.
There is no official data on its combat radius, heck there is no official data on its ferry range or fuel carrying capacity either, all the information regarding it's range and combat radius comes from unverified media reports and we all know how unreliable Indian media is.

one can only make a guess on how much fuel it carries by looking at it's empty weight (6560) and Clean takeoff weight (9800kg).
My guess is it would be similar to other fighters of the same class like JF 17, FA 50, Gripen C/D somewhere in the ballpark of 2500kg.

Also mk1a will not see any action on eastern front, it will only be on the western front, facing inferior pakistani jets
 
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