What's new

Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

.
Going by IAF performance of 27th feb, Indians will be pumped (like their media is already doing) and IAF might do some reckless action as they did on 26th throw some bombs on chinese positions and do the usual propaganda. PLAAF responds* and IAF intercepts and shows a better performance than of 27th, still it will be on the losing side, because they are still lots of gaps that needs to be plugged. At the end of day it will be attrition where again it will be again IAF on the losing end because of its lesser numbers and its A2A capability.

* The response of PLAAF is debatable. PLAAF is known for its discipline and their pilots are highly professional but they still lack real combat experience. So how well they perform as compare to PAF pilots remains to be seen. (PAF performance on 27th was the benchmark) so comparing that with A2A in Ladakh would be unrealistic.

There is a lot to agree with, in your post, and a lot to disagree with. In this context, please also see the post by @IblinI, immediately above. I will put my responses in point form.
  • Geographically speaking, India is having tactical advantage in Sino-Indo border as their logistic is much easier and shorter in mainly low altitude area (except a few stand-off point), while it is totally the opposite on our side

    Two things - the logistics, as pointed out above; the aerodynamics, distorted by Indian fan-boys, and dismissed rightly by Deino.

    On the aerodynamics part, it is not a hypothetical or imaginary concern that the load-bearing capacity of an aircraft taking off at sea level is higher than that of one taking off at altitudes like those in Tibet.

  • Tibet overlook India's most populated Ganges Plains and only 300-400KM away from Dehli, while Tibet has less than 1 percent of China's total population and the nearest big city Chengdu is more than a thousand KM away.

    Fair enough, but it is hoped that it will not come to the stage of bombing each other's population centres. IF it does not, IF it remains a limited engagement involving Close Air Support, Aerial Combat and relatively shallow interdiction, then those criteria (mentioned in your post) no longer apply.

  • Going by IAF performance of 27th feb, Indians will be pumped (like their media is already doing) and IAF might do some reckless action as they did on 26th throw some bombs on chinese positions and do the usual propaganda.

    Leaving aside the emotive words :D the IAF may make strikes either to prevent a dangerous build-up of Chinese resources at a point, or to intervene if the Army is taking a beating.

    Such actions will be reported fully and freely; sometimes, things become too free, but that is a moral hazard that all democracies face, including the newly-coined Pakistani democracy, if you will forgive me for the observation. On the other hand, autocracies do not talk about these things; we still have no authentic response from the Chinese government (the authentic report of Chinese casualties in 1962 finally came to light thirty years later, accidentally). So, as far as propaganda and free reporting go, as terms, Tera kutta 'kutta', Mera kutta 'Tommy'.

  • PLAAF responds* and IAF intercepts and shows a better performance than of 27th, still it will be on the losing side, because they are still lots of gaps that needs to be plugged.

    Would you be shocked if I thought that would be a good thing?

    One of Dhanoa's biggest exercises involved mobilising the entire IAF and flying continuous sorties to test the weak spots in the maintenance and flight availability of aircraft. It showed that a very high availability rate can be achieved, and it also showed up the areas that needed improvement.

    27th February showed that we lacked the battle management that the PAF displayed (without going overboard about the actual performance, about which I am a sceptic). Strengthening this, planning a set-piece encounter, extending that to a series of planned transitions from scenario to scenario (which would be nothing more nor less than managing an air campaign), ensuring that logistics and maintenance keeps pace, ensuring pilot morale, ensuring rescue operations....strengthening these is no bad thing.

    It is quite another matter that the PLAAF will also be benefited, and will gain battle experience.
 
. .
I have been receiving some extremely cogent comments from a Pakistani citizen elsewhere, and am taking the liberty of reproducing four passages from that.

JS: Joe Shearer
ANO: A N Other

JS: Very insightful. I think that the safest way to deal with the Chinese is with pragmatism and directness, and, finally, responsive to their behaviour, rather than to their spoken word.

There is one major difference between the LAC and the LOC. Except in Arunachal Pradesh, perhaps in one or two cases, there are no populated locations on either side of the LAC. There are, in contrast, extensive populations on either side of the LOC.

ANO: Indeed that is the best way to look at their actions rather than their words and frankly, it may send a better message if India, whenever it feels itself stronger, initiates a couple of Salami Slices itself wherever it can even if two months later you withdraw, it wouldn't matter because it would send a message that India is not a pushover.

Of course both lines are very different however, i have read accounts where India did not confront Chinese encroachment to avoid conflict. Match this with Pakistan, where even a movement of an Inch is met with an answer, and you will understand the reaction of both. Pakistan and India both know that encroachment is not possible on LOC unless a very tactical or a bloody operation is held. They are aware of each other and this vigilance keeps them in their line. I know that LAC becoming LOC is not good for India and also not good for Pakistan, as i have stated above in my notes, why i feel as such.

I am trying to understand chinese boldness. India is not say Nepal, a weak and small nation. It is a large and strong nation so why does another Strong and large nation, not be vary of it?

ANO (cont.): needless to say there should be a full inquiry and investigation ( proper one not the JIT ones we have :P) as to why China was allowed to build such strong structures?

why werent intrusions seen beforehand?why were strategic grounds left abandoned to chinese aggression? where did the strategy fail and what was the strategy for such actions? armies have generals and officers not just to lead them to battle or wear shiny medals, their job is to make tactical and strategic planning, plan responses, create patterns and find weakness and make turn them into strengths. I mean, we got our excuse that our generals are busy with DHA so strategic failures and response failures are natural, what do your generals have to say?

If nothing else, such inquiry will at least reveal what needs to be done and what should be done. You get an image of steps to take short term and long term.

just saying we will train new divisions isnt good enough. Where to train them? how to equip them? what will be their number? what terrain will they be trained in, i mean you have snowy mountains, rocky mountains, dry mountains, green mountains e.t.c e.t.c. you send a guy trained in arid mountain warfare into snowy mountains and he is not coming back. Who will be their officer? what is his experience? where will be the bases, their supply routes, first fall back point, second fall back point, third fall back point, reinforcement juncture, major base, air support base? so many aspects without inquiry will only lead to blunders and corruption. Inquiry will help plug a few holes and give advantage to the poor farmer boy that will be deployed there.

@LeGenD

This is a Pakistani citizen. I keep trying to persuade him to post on PDF, but he's fighting it.

Obviously, with a country as big as India and China - definitely.

Even Pakistan is not a small fish.

In fighting capability, but the fatal weakness of Pakistan is its terrible geographical configuration. Only some remote corners of Balochistan are beyond reach. India's advantage is the Deccan Peninsula.
 
.
@LeGenD

This is a Pakistani citizen. I keep trying to persuade him to post on PDF, but he's fighting it.



In fighting capability, but the fatal weakness of Pakistan is its terrible geographical configuration. Only some remote corners of Balochistan are beyond reach. India's advantage is the Deccan Peninsula.
I would say that Pakistani northern areas offer much cover and protection.

But of-course, India is too big in comparison, and it would be a logistical nightmare to establish complete air superiority over it in a span of hours.
 
. .
What if the conflict has naval dimension to it? :-)

China have a two operational aircraft carriers?
 
.
Fair enough, but it is hoped that it will not come to the stage of bombing each other's population centres. IF it does not, IF it remains a limited engagement involving Close Air Support, Aerial Combat and relatively shallow interdiction, then those criteria (mentioned in your post) no longer apply.
It does not necessary means bombing each other's population centres, being closer to the other's centre itself is a strategic advantage, but ofc,the willingess to escalate is on top of all discussion here.
 
.
Cruise missiles... valid consideration.

But range is an issue? PLAAF has to go deep inside India to strike at every military base with cruise missiles.

@Joe Shearer

This is something you are qualified to comment on. Does India have a contingency for this issue?

Of-course, China can subject Indian airstrips near the border to such attacks.

Some very amateurish trials on missile interception have been going on, but knowing DRDO from close quarters as I do, I have no faith in these efforts. However, there is a budget, it is being spent, something MAY result.

Just now, there is nothing, not even a good well-distributed, well-integrated AD system (all AD has been oriented to meet the challenge of manned aircraft, and the IAF believes that it has sufficient capability to deal with aircraft strikes. They cannot deal with missile threats.
 
. .
Some very amateurish trials on missile interception have been going on, but knowing DRDO from close quarters as I do, I have no faith in these efforts. However, there is a budget, it is being spent, something MAY result.

Just now, there is nothing, not even a good well-distributed, well-integrated AD system (all AD has been oriented to meet the challenge of manned aircraft, and the IAF believes that it has sufficient capability to deal with aircraft strikes. They cannot deal with missile threats.
I see.

So military bases which may come under cruise missile strikes from China can be total loss?
 
.
Hey I’m just kidding don’t take it seriously.
And thanks for excellent moderation on this thread. That and @Joe Shearer ‘s prodding encouraged me to post.

You should continue, and you should read up on air power.

I see.

So military bases which may come under cruise missile strikes from China can be total loss?

Bluntly, yes.
 
.
The IAF has severe technical gaps in its capability as demonstrated on Feb-27 by the PAF.

the PLAAF will have significant numerical (3010+ Aircraft) and technological superiority (stealth aircraft and dedicated strategic bombers)in the Indian occupied Chinese territory according to Wikipedia

the Hamalyian mountain range will give significant cover to PLAAF not to mention the higher refueling and detection (AWACS platforms) and electronic warfare (ELINT) capability

will the IAF be completely wiped out in 10 or 12 hours like in the case of Iraq and America in the first gulf war?

is the force comparison not similar ?

I look forward to your response?

KV

source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Air_Force
PLAAF is stretched out in so many theaters. IAF can give them a bloody nose
 
. . .

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom