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Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

Exactly my point and as such I hope we'll never find out the answer to the given statement above.

Anyway concerning your question I think indeed china is not interested in an all-out war and a massive air campaign. Also, if the PLAAF is able to "wipe out the IAF within this short time" vastly depend on the scale and how much of their assets they would bring into the theatre; with the given forces so far based there I don't think it is possible.

On the other side I have even more the feeling that the Indian side is dramatically underestimating the PLAAF and even more overestimating their own IAF: A constant theme in the Indian media is most often a simply quartets game-like list of "we have this and they have that", most often with too low numbers for the PLAAF - simply since the PLAAF for the moment does not care about - and also always with such stupid claims "PLAAF cannot take off from these bases due to the high altitude, but we can" and "we have the Su-30MKI that already spotted the J-20"!

So in summary, the PLAAF is playing an interesting game. They fielded a few assets as a some sort of CAP in case to scramble any IAF intruder, but they are not able to such an all-out strike with the given forces yet. However they simple don't need to since this clash escalates, they could easily transfer more quite quick. Also I don't think they will field the J-20 yet, since J-10C, J-16 and the J-11B are sufficient for the moment.

Just my first 2 cents for the moment.

Going by IAF performance of 27th feb, Indians will be pumped (like their media is already doing) and IAF might do some reckless action as they did on 26th throw some bombs on chinese positions and do the usual propaganda. PLAAF responds* and IAF intercepts and shows a better performance than of 27th, still it will be on the losing side, because they are still lots of gaps that needs to be plugged. At the end of day it will be attrition where again it will be again IAF on the losing end because of its lesser numbers and its A2A capability.

* The response of PLAAF is debatable. PLAAF is known for its discipline and their pilots are highly professional but they still lack real combat experience. So how well they perform as compare to PAF pilots remains to be seen. (PAF performance on 27th was the benchmark) so comparing that with A2A in Ladakh would be unrealistic.
 
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Geographically speaking, India is having tactical advantage in Sino-Indo border as their logistic is much easier and shorter in mainly low altitude area (except a few stand-off point), while it is totally the opposite on our side, but China is having a strategic advantage as Tibet overlook India's most populated Ganges Plains and only 300-400KM away from Dehli, while Tibet has less than 1 percent of China's total population and the nearest big city Chengdu is more than a thousand KM away.
Brutally honest view. Appreciated. :tup:

Normally these conversations become a victim of hubris and logical considerations take a back seat.
 
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I have been receiving some extremely cogent comments from a Pakistani citizen elsewhere, and am taking the liberty of reproducing four passages from that.

JS: Joe Shearer
ANO: A N Other

JS: Very insightful. I think that the safest way to deal with the Chinese is with pragmatism and directness, and, finally, responsive to their behaviour, rather than to their spoken word.

There is one major difference between the LAC and the LOC. Except in Arunachal Pradesh, perhaps in one or two cases, there are no populated locations on either side of the LAC. There are, in contrast, extensive populations on either side of the LOC.

ANO: Indeed that is the best way to look at their actions rather than their words and frankly, it may send a better message if India, whenever it feels itself stronger, initiates a couple of Salami Slices itself wherever it can even if two months later you withdraw, it wouldn't matter because it would send a message that India is not a pushover.

Of course both lines are very different however, i have read accounts where India did not confront Chinese encroachment to avoid conflict. Match this with Pakistan, where even a movement of an Inch is met with an answer, and you will understand the reaction of both. Pakistan and India both know that encroachment is not possible on LOC unless a very tactical or a bloody operation is held. They are aware of each other and this vigilance keeps them in their line. I know that LAC becoming LOC is not good for India and also not good for Pakistan, as i have stated above in my notes, why i feel as such.

I am trying to understand chinese boldness. India is not say Nepal, a weak and small nation. It is a large and strong nation so why does another Strong and large nation, not be vary of it?

ANO (cont.): needless to say there should be a full inquiry and investigation ( proper one not the JIT ones we have :P) as to why China was allowed to build such strong structures?

why werent intrusions seen beforehand?why were strategic grounds left abandoned to chinese aggression? where did the strategy fail and what was the strategy for such actions? armies have generals and officers not just to lead them to battle or wear shiny medals, their job is to make tactical and strategic planning, plan responses, create patterns and find weakness and make turn them into strengths. I mean, we got our excuse that our generals are busy with DHA so strategic failures and response failures are natural, what do your generals have to say?

If nothing else, such inquiry will at least reveal what needs to be done and what should be done. You get an image of steps to take short term and long term.

just saying we will train new divisions isnt good enough. Where to train them? how to equip them? what will be their number? what terrain will they be trained in, i mean you have snowy mountains, rocky mountains, dry mountains, green mountains e.t.c e.t.c. you send a guy trained in arid mountain warfare into snowy mountains and he is not coming back. Who will be their officer? what is his experience? where will be the bases, their supply routes, first fall back point, second fall back point, third fall back point, reinforcement juncture, major base, air support base? so many aspects without inquiry will only lead to blunders and corruption. Inquiry will help plug a few holes and give advantage to the poor farmer boy that will be deployed there.
 
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Going by IAF performance of 27th feb, Indians will be pumped (like their media is already doing) and IAF might do some reckless action as they did on 26th throw some bombs on chinese positions and do the usual propaganda. PLAAF responds* and IAF intercepts and shows a better performance than of 27th, still it will be on the losing side, because they are still lots of gaps that needs to be plugged. At the end of day it will be attrition where again it will be again IAF on the losing end because of its lesser numbers and its A2A capability.

* The response of PLAAF is debatable. PLAAF is known for its discipline and their pilots are highly professional but they still lack real combat experience. So how well they perform as compare to PAF pilots remains to be seen. (PAF performance on 27th was the benchmark) so comparing that with A2A in Ladakh would be unrealistic.
Interesting take.
 
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Saturation cruise missile attacks on indian airbases will definitely take indian fighters out of air.. But all fighters won't be destroyed. They just won't have any place to take off from..

This will be followed up by conventional airstrikes by now an un opposed air force


Chinese can perhaps pump 1000s of cruise missiles down range in few hours no big deal..


So yeah in an open war... Indian airforce will play its role for less than 12 hours
 
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Saturation cruise missile attacks on indian airbases will definitely take indian fighters out of air.. But all fighters won't be destroyed. They just won't have any place to take off from..

This will be followed up by conventional airstrikes by now an un opposed air force


Chinese can perhaps pump 1000s of cruise missiles down range in few hours no big deal..


So yeah in an open war... Indian airforce will play its role for less than 12 hours
Cruise missiles... valid consideration.

But range is an issue? PLAAF has to go deep inside India to strike at every military base with cruise missiles.

@Joe Shearer

This is something you are qualified to comment on. Does India have a contingency for this issue?

Of-course, China can subject Indian airstrips near the border to such attacks.
 
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Cruise missiles... valid consideration.

But range is an issue? PLAAF has to go deep inside India to strike at every military base with cruise missiles.

@Joe Shearer

This is something you are qualified to comment on. Does India have a contingency for this issue?

Of-course, China can subject Indian airstrips near the border to such attacks.
Land based cruise missiles will be used.
 
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I would like to know in what scenario IAF is being engaged here? Is it PLAAF VS IAF only? Is Chinese rocket force involved too?

At the current scenario, IAF can definitely give pain to PLAAF if the war breaks out today due to comparatively less assets of PLAAF in the theater. IAF would have a field day due to better logistics and availability of top tier aircrafts till Chinese side brings forward their assets.

Imagine a scenario where China decides for an all out war against India, even then IAF would be in a deadly shape after 12 hours of onslaught by China. It would rather take days where IAF would be weakened to a point that it won't be able to change the outcome of the war but then again by that time PLAAF would have lost considerable aircrafts as well.

While an all out war between China and India is highly unlikely, an in depth analysis of the both airforces is required by the learned people here.
 
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Fair.

Chinese members can highlight which type.


By the way in any future war between competent enemies drones and cruise missiles will be the first salvo e. g turkish ops in syria

Reason being modern air defences have become so deadly that u will need saturation attack and don't want to risk pilots

Airfields and air defences will b primary targets.

Chinese trump india both in attack drones and in cruise missiles

Even A300 rockets are able to make precision hits 290 km away
 
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I would like to know in what scenario IAF is being engaged here? Is it PLAAF VS IAF only? Is Chinese rocket force involved too?

At the current scenario, IAF can definitely give pain to PLAAF if the war breaks out today due to comparatively less assets of PLAAF in the theater. IAF would have a field day due to better logistics and availability of top tier aircrafts till Chinese side brings forward their assets.

Imagine a scenario where China decides for an all out war against India, even then IAF would be in a deadly shape after 12 hours of onslaught by China. It would rather take days where IAF would be weakened to a point that it won't be able to change the outcome of the war but then again by that time PLAAF would have lost considerable aircrafts as well.

While an all out war between China and India is highly unlikely, an in depth analysis of the both airforces is required by the learned people here.
Thanks for constructive share, good Sir.

By the way in any future war between competent enemies drones and cruise missiles will be the first salvo e. g turkish ops in syria

Reason being modern air defences have become so deadly that u will need saturation attack and don't want to risk pilots

Airfields and air defences will b primary targets.

Chinese trump india both in attack drones and in cruise missiles

Even A300 rockets are able to make precision hits 290 km away
Yes, this is realistic consideration and possibility. :tup:

It lend credibility to my argument in the start: "Please keep in mind that both China and India can attack military bases of each other from afar. This will compound operational problems for both yet further."

Chinese admit that Indo-China border is not an easy environment and does not encourage massive deployments. Potential clashes will remain limited.
 
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Cruise missiles... valid consideration.

But range is an issue? PLAAF has to go deep inside India to strike at every military base with cruise missiles.

@Joe Shearer

This is something you are qualified to comment on. Does India have a contingency for this issue?

Of-course, China can subject Indian airstrips near the border to such attacks.
Highly unlikely, see a military operation is based on cost effectiveness. Will it give the return desired to commensurate with the resources invested. Because resources are always limited they are employed in a manner so that equal if not more value is extracted. To effectively neutralise entire IAF will require a humongous investment in limited intelligence and offensive resources which may still then won’t succeed. Fir that every air base must be constantly monitored it will divert an unhealthy amount of IMINT and SIGINT resources for a considerable amount of time which will leave other sectors vulnerable. On top of that AD systems of every base needs to be neutralised first so that the strike package can not be intercepted. And if that happens than IAF will be alerted and attempt Air interception of strike package or fly off acs to civilian bases.
Also mind it such all out strike has a significantly high chance of causing collateral damage and will be very undesirable for the attacker.
 
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Highly unlikely, see a military operation is based on cost effectiveness. Will it give the return desired to commensurate with the resources invested. Because resources are always limited they are employed in a manner so that equal if not more value is extracted. To effectively neutralise entire IAF will require a humongous investment in limited intelligence and offensive resources which may still then won’t succeed. Fir that every air base must be constantly monitored it will divert an unhealthy amount of IMINT and SIGINT resources for a considerable amount of time which will leave other sectors vulnerable. On top of that AD systems of every base needs to be neutralised first so that the strike package can not be intercepted. And if that happens than IAF will be alerted and attempt Air interception of strike package or fly off acs to civilian bases.
Also mind it such all out strike has a significantly high chance of causing collateral damage and will be very undesirable for the attacker.
Yes, several members acknowledge that invading India in full capacity to carry out decapitating strikes all over, is a fools errand. Geography is massive, military bases are scattered, and Indians can play hide-and-seek. Operational challenges will mount by the hour.
 
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Yes, several members acknowledge that invading India in full capacity to carry out decapitating strikes all over, is a fools errand. Geography is massive, military bases are scattered, and Indians can play hide-and-seek.
Size Matters :secret:
 
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