Hundreds occupied Islamabad's Lal Masjid Friday, painting the walls red

[blitz]

key why you breaking his bubble already ?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Indo Pak thaw started by ABP and Musharraf is the first time there is some movement towards burying the hatchet.

Therefore, there is hardly a good cause for India to upset the apple cart as personified by Musharraf.

Pragmatically viewed, who else can come to power in Pakistan that would be in India's interest? Only Benazir and Nawaz Sharif. They have not shown the will or desire to start any cognisable thaw in the Indo Pak relations. While on the other hand, Musharraf has shown the will and all said and done, there has been perceptible change

 

[blitz]

The Indo Pak thaw started by ABP and Musharraf is the first time there is some movement towards burying the hatchet.

Therefore, there is hardly a good cause for India to upset the apple cart as personified by Musharraf.

Pragmatically viewed, who else can come to power in Pakistan that would be in India's interest? Only Benazir and Nawaz Sharif. They have not shown the will or desire to start any cognisable thaw in the Indo Pak relations. While on the other hand, Musharraf has shown the will and all said and done, there has been perceptible change

Salim, speaking strictly in India's interest terms, even a jihadi takeover of Pakistan might be in India's interest. It all depends on what does uncle do when the regime changes. If uncle just sits tight, then a jihadi takeover would be a real nightmare for India. But if uncle has some contingency plans [which i have a healthy feeling they do] to neutralize Pakistani nukes in case of such a scenario, then there could be nothing better for India. A defanged Pakistan with a fundamentalist government wouldn't hurt India one bit. Infact less ability to cause trouble for us. So lets see what the future holds, i got my fingers cross.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Salim, speaking strictly in India's interest terms, even a jihadi takeover of Pakistan might be in India's interest. It all depends on what does uncle do when the regime changes. If uncle just sits tight, then a jihadi takeover would be a real nightmare for India. But if uncle has some contingency plans [which i have a healthy feeling they do] to neutralize Pakistani nukes in case of such a scenario, then there could be nothing better for India. A defanged Pakistan with a fundamentalist government wouldn't hurt India one bit. Infact less ability to cause trouble for us. So lets see what the future holds, i got my fingers cross.

With all respect to your views, I would say turmoil in the neighbourhood is never in the interest of anyone.

As an allegory, if a thief steals in the neighbour's house, it means that the thieves have hit the locality and you could be next. So, if Jihadis take over Pakistan, what is the guarantee that their influence will not spill over to India?

A Jihadi Pakistan would mean more turmoil in Kashmir and more of the foreign 'guest terrorists'.

And maybe more train blasts in Mumbai with a better record than their last one of 7 trains (IIRC) hit in 11 minutes!

The choice is yours. Musharraf or a Jihadi!

I prefer Musharraf.

Uncle Sam can do what he likes, but I won't be Uncle Tom. As Lawrence of Arabia had said when asked to show his palm for reading his fate, - I will write my own fate!

US interests need not be Indian interests.

 

[Samudra]

US interests need not be Indian interests.

My personal dislike for Musharraf for his media stunts not withstanding, I agree with you've said.

A Jihadi takeover of Pakistan is not in Indian interests. Right now we want more money and development. India happens to be the only politically stable country to attract large investments in the sub-continent. Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal are on boil.

The sheer size of India makes sure that the few insurgences we face do not actually hinder much development. Nor can they threaten the stability of the nation.

To make Pakistan more unstable at this juncture would add to more headache.

 

[Chrome9]

Realistically an unstable Pakistan would be the biggest nightmare for India at this moment of time. south east asia is a time where all of it's members are undergoing above average growth even in political uncertainty. The prospect of increased terrorist activity, flaring up of Kashmir issue and even refugees is a possibility. Not only will this have an adverse affect on Indian economy it will put it in political strain and may even lead to, in the worst scenario, war. India for it's own sake should keep an eye on it's neighbour and help keep all well.

 

[dabong1]

Fire the security people that where in charge of lal masjid.

 

[Ababeel]

I wonder how long the government will wait to take action this time.one thing for sure this time every 1 in the mosques should be killed.and longer it takes weaker government is going to look.but they should send MMA to negotiate.just to make sure all Mullahs in when Missiles are to rain in.

just to make sure all is been taken care of once for all.Sick and tired of this Musshy better move and move fast this time Absolutly no negotiation and no one is allowed to come out they are breathing.

i would love to hear from mullah lovers what they say about this.

We saw once again the fury of people against a govt taking Pakistan towards Secularism and to make them atheist, but Insha Allah the brave sons of Muhammed Bin Qasim will stop this anti Islamic wave with their blood. In context of the agreement between the most anti Islamic leaders in Pak history (Benazir and Musharraf), the Pakistan and Islam loving people must unite, forgetting their petty differences to save the Islamic character of Pakistan.
Its time that MMA, Tehrik-e-Insaaf, Muslim League (N) and others incl. the Islamic minded elements in Muslim League (QA) must come together or they will definitely see the birth of another Mustapha Kamal "Ataturk" on Pakistani soil.
Ulemas are the core part of Islamic society and any muslim society can not remain intact without their presence. First of all, in Islam scholars (Ulemas) have a great role to play and a mission to carry out. It is their role to declare and convey the truth to people, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil; and it is their mission to show them the straight path. In fact, this is the role of all Muslims, as there is no place for clergy in Islam in the sense of a theocratic authority. However, this role and duty is stressed in respect to scholars, as they are the experts in Islamic Shari`ah who know the Islamic rulings, principles and norms better than anyone else.
Explaining this role and responsibility of scholars, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Scholars are the heirs of prophets, and prophets neither left behind dinars nor dirhams (Arab coins); rather they left knowledge. He who acquires knowledge has really gained something of great value."
If the actions of any anti Islam govt in Pakistan continues, then muslims must act with wisdom and braveness as the companions of the Prophet(PBUH), like Abubakr, Omar Osman, Ali, Khalid Bin Walid etc etc acted for keeping the flag of true Islamic principles unfurled and standing firmly.
In cover of suicide bombers and tags of "Fundamentalist", "Terrorists" and "Extrimists" the great majority of Muslim scholars and masses can not be accused by the lovers and followers of secularism and Atheism. As is the history of Islam, the true muslims who love Islam and want the implementation of Sharia in its complete form in the muslim society as Allah and the Prophet demands through the Quran and Sunnah, never remain seated and upheld the Islamic principles with all the sacrifices.
If so called "Secular Muslims" really want the solution of what is happening then they must trace the faults of their own and the opponents in the light of Quran and Sunnah otherwise their will be no compromise at the cost of Islamic principles. History has repeated itself again and again.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What is this?

A sermon what Gazi had preached?

I am a bit confused about this reference of Gazi to Ataturk. He was not much of a religious person. He was secular and got Turkey to shed all outer resemblances.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Yes.

Baghdadi I think has reproduced a sermon of Gazi, the cleric who was killed in Lal Mazjid.

 

[EagleEyes]

It weren't the extremists or Taliban type groups who occupied the Lal Majid. It were the common people living in the near areas and were used to use the Masjid.

These are the people who have more conservative views and were trying to protest the operation conducted by the government for that they tried to color the Masjid and change its name to the original one.

So far in my opinion. The Masjid has to go, it has recieved too much political attention to sustain future political meanuvers which wont be good for a stable Pakistan.

For those who think that Mullahs will take over Pakistan some how, some day. Please use some senses before you come up with a comment like that. As long as **** as Kazi Hussain Ahmed is leading mullah party.. i dont think they will go very far. Currently, i do think that government to the some extent will agree to participate with the BB after the CJ case.

 

[A.Rahman]

We saw once again the fury of people against a govt taking Pakistan towards Secularism and to make them atheist, but Insha Allah the brave sons of Muhammed Bin Qasim will stop this anti Islamic wave with their blood. In context of the agreement between the most anti Islamic leaders in Pak history (Benazir and Musharraf), the Pakistan and Islam loving people must unite, forgetting their petty differences to save the Islamic character of Pakistan.
Its time that MMA, Tehrik-e-Insaaf, Muslim League (N) and others incl. the Islamic minded elements in Muslim League (QA) must come together or they will definitely see the birth of another Mustapha Kamal "Ataturk" on Pakistani soil.
Ulemas are the core part of Islamic society and any muslim society can not remain intact without their presence. First of all, in Islam scholars (Ulemas) have a great role to play and a mission to carry out. It is their role to declare and convey the truth to people, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil; and it is their mission to show them the straight path. In fact, this is the role of all Muslims, as there is no place for clergy in Islam in the sense of a theocratic authority. However, this role and duty is stressed in respect to scholars, as they are the experts in Islamic Shari`ah who know the Islamic rulings, principles and norms better than anyone else.

Are you talking about he same MMA who sided with GAZI and blamed gov?

If Kamal is born in Pak then its the fault of mullah for encouraging suicide bombings & unislamic tactics; making general population to hate Islam.

Explaining this role and responsibility of scholars, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Scholars are the heirs of prophets, and prophets neither left behind dinars nor dirhams (Arab coins); rather they left knowledge. He who acquires knowledge has really gained something of great value."
If the actions of any anti Islam govt in Pakistan continues, then muslims must act with wisdom and braveness as the companions of the Prophet(PBUH), like Abubakr, Omar Osman, Ali, Khalid Bin Walid etc etc acted for keeping the flag of true Islamic principles unfurled and standing firmly.
In cover of suicide bombers and tags of "Fundamentalist", "Terrorists" and "Extrimists" the great majority of Muslim scholars and masses can not be accused by the lovers and followers of secularism and Atheism. As is the history of Islam, the true muslims who love Islam and want the implementation of Sharia in its complete form in the muslim society as Allah and the Prophet demands through the Quran and Sunnah, never remain seated and upheld the Islamic principles with all the sacrifices.
If so called "Secular Muslims" really want the solution of what is happening then they must trace the faults of their own and the opponents in the light of Quran and Sunnah otherwise their will be no compromise at the cost of Islamic principles. History has repeated itself again and again.

you talk about "Prophet(PBUH), like Abubakr, Omar Osman, Ali, Khalid Bin Walid"

can you tell me a incident when they did suicide attacks? or like some thing similar? did they gave some kind of sermon that tells people to kill all who disagree with their views? did they went around and trashed people's wealth & property?

No one is trying to enforce Atheism or secularism in Pak; but you should know that true Islam is compatible with democracy & human civilization, not the one they teach you in lal masjid.

Muslims' relationship with other people is based on peace, mutual respect, cooperation, justice and kindness as guided by Quranic verses such as, "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:256); and "O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Lo! The noblest of you, in the sight of God, is the best in conduct." (49:13); and "God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just." (60:8)

Islam forbids wars of aggression and, like Christianity, sets strict conditions for just warfare. Those conditions are limited to self-defense or removing injustice against other people. The Prophet Muhammad said: "Do not kill women or children or noncombatants and do not kill old people or religious people (he also mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis). Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies."

Islam's long history of tolerance speaks for itself. After more than 14 centuries of Muslim rule over the Middle East, tens of millions of Christians still share the same towns and villages with Muslims, in mutual brotherhood and respect. The rare exceptions have impacted all religious communities, equally. Prophet Muhammad said: "Whoever harms a Christian or a Jew, it is as if he has harmed me."

 

[Ababeel]

Like many of our Muslim members themselves admit, Islam is a whole way of life in itself, with precise rules governing everything from marriage to war to administration etc etc. So the question arises, how does Islam fit into the law of a nation ? If the laws of a country are different from the laws prescribed in the Quran, how is a devout Muslim supposed to abide by both of them ? Either the Muslim must follow the laws of his religion, or his state.

Unless, the law of the state is same as law of Islam i.e. Shariah. So how do we solve this contradiction ?

In a muslim amjority country, as a muslim society it will be the religious duty of the muslims as individual or as a society to implement Islamic Sharia in it's complete form. Nothing less will be acceptable, other than the rules of Quran and Sunnah. So there will be no question of clash between law of a nation and Sharia.
Nothing less than this is acceptable to Allah. It is God and not man whose will is the source of law in a muslim society.

 

[Ababeel]

Are you talking about he same MMA who sided with GAZI and blamed gov?

If Kamal is born in Pak then its the fault of mullah for encouraging suicide bombings & unislamic tactics; making general population to hate Islam.

"General" population has remain always with Islam as against the so called enlightened and secularist who are the real enemies of Islam. I am again writing MMA or the larger Islamic scholars groups are against any suicide bombings. It's either the work of extremist affiliated to Al-Quida or Taliban due to the US appeasing policy of the secular Musharraf govt or the external enemies hell bent to destroy Pak. Or a mix of them responsible for different acts of suicide bombings happening at different places. Try to think a different way y keeping your secular mindset aside.

you talk about "Prophet(PBUH), like Abubakr, Omar Osman, Ali, Khalid Bin Walid"

can you tell me a incident when they did suicide attacks? or like some thing similar? did they gave some kind of sermon that tells people to kill all who disagree with their views? did they went around and trashed people's wealth & property?

No one is trying to enforce Atheism or secularism in Pak; but you should know that true Islam is compatible with democracy & human civilization, not the one they teach you in lal masjid.

I have explained the suicide theory already. Can you tell me what was that when, Abubakr (RA) heard about some clans that they are refusing to pay Zakat (Just one part of Islamic pillars or Arkans). He replied that he will carry out Jihad against those who even refuse to pay Zakat of even just a piece of rope.
If you think the present govt is Islamic in nature then why it is not completing the sacred work of implementing Sharia in Pak, which is a order of Quran and Sunnah. So on one hand
their will suppress any movement by "extremists" and on the other hand gain the support of masses as a whole?

 

[Keysersoze]

In a muslim amjority country, as a muslim society it will be the religious duty of the muslims as individual or as a society to implement Islamic Sharia in it's complete form. Nothing less will be acceptable, other than the rules of Quran and Sunnah. So there will be no question of clash between law of a nation and Sharia.
Nothing less than this is acceptable to Allah. It is God and not man whose will is the source of law in a muslim society.

YET IT SEEMS THAT MEN ARE TRYING TO FORCE IT UPON OTHERS!

If Sharia is implemented it should be because the majority of the populace want it. Not because a fringe of uneducated fools want to force their warped version of it upon others.
When educated calm men bring the idea forward I would consider it. At the moment I will oppose it because I don't want the Taleban in Pakistan. The Taleban achieved nothing in their rule. So much so that some Americans used to joke, that they would have to bomb the country INTO the stone age.