How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Edevelop]

a BIG FAT LOL on that source... pakistanis and thr sources and thr conspiracy theories .. haha thanks for the laugh

So people here that have links to PAF are lying?
I can see you are under pressure....

 

[Skull and Bones]

Oh what a great RCS of SU-30 mki.
Aircraft Radar cross section (estimate)
Sukhoi Su-30MKI 20 square metres
JF17 3-4 Square metres
Dassault Rafale 2 square metres
Eurofighter Typhoon 1 square metre
Sukhoi Su-35BM 1 square metre
Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk 0.025 square metres
Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor 0.0001 square metres

He he he, too much RCS for SU30 -MKI.
MKI is inviting itself to shoot him.

Counters measures:
1. Enhance AWACS in numbers.
2. Get advantage of F7s, 400 mirage with AWACS. Just matter of see first, then pilot skills.
3. Hack the data link of SU 30 MKI if he comes in our Land. There are pretty good hackers in our country. Just hack their communication with IAF, Not only hack, but also alternate the instructions of CIPs(Common Integrated Processor) of SU 30MKI using virus. Iranian used virus and just alternated the instruction on drone. Hacking data link communication of SU30MKIwill have unique Advantage.
Create hackers, Hack the enemy.

Ok Mr Einstein, F-15 Strike Eagle has 18 Sq m of RCS, how many F-15s does Iraq managed to shoot down with much better Air force and SAM than Pakistan has now?

3. Hack the data link of SU 30 MKI if he comes in our Land. There are pretty good hackers in our country. Just hack their communication with IAF, Not only hack, but also alternate the instructions of CIPs(Common Integrated Processor) of SU 30MKI using virus. Iranian used virus and just alternated the instruction on drone. Hacking data link communication of SU30MKIwill have unique Advantage.

Nice one

Does this process applies to US Predator Drones too?

 

[ptldM3]

And exactly this video proves my point that Engine is not encased in Fuselage. The engines are put in sort of engine nacelles. These are metallic casing not part of fuselage. See the distinct colour difference, the rest of the airframe is yellowish. The fuselage takes a cone shape past the cockpit (central beam section) extending back to tail forming a tip. Have a look at the photos the Engines are overly exposed, have a look at top of the engine nacelles. My argument is that because of these facts the IRS would be higher.
Images below are taken from the video that you have linked.

If your argument were ridiculous before they are now off the charts ridiculous. You are claiming that the engines are not encased in the fuselage yet you show a photograph of the fuselage where the engines are placed.

Do a Google search for the AL-31, the AL-31 is much thinner than what the nacelles are. Don’t be foolish enough to believe that just because the fuselage follows the same curvature as the engines that those are engines. The engines are secured to the inner bulkheads of the fuselage.

And that opening is an access panel that they remove for maintanance that than gets put back later.

And the other thing that you are refering to as an exposed engine is the nozzle, all aircraft have them.

And argument presented by me is that you don’t want to loose elevation while doing that. Seems like in every move the SU-30 wants to apply the ‘hand breaks’. All of these are so predictable moves, and sometimes deadly in practice.

Elevation has nothing to do with it. The pilot is in total control of the aircraft, the pilot can decide how far to pitch the nose and for how long. The pilot can decide what airspeed to do it at and how he wants to recover.

In a climb you never want to stall first, the idea is your opponent stalls first or roughly the same time with you having the elevation advantage, so you can get behind him - post stall - in a dive and gun him down.

This is a failed logic, a thrust vectoring aircraft can maintain a controlled stall, a conventional aircraft can not. Going vertically a Flanker can slow down enough to cause an overshoot while still maintaining control. In short a conventional aircraft never wants to stall first because once he does he’ll be in the line of sight of the aircraft with trust vectoring. In a vertical scissors the aircraft that has no trust vectoring is screwed unless the other pilot is a total moron.

Like in RED FLAG While climbing in scissors thrust vectoring puts the aircraft in post stall maneuver, the rear end drops and instead of going up the aircraft starts loosing elevation.

A well flown flanker can do a post stall or a cobra without losing altitude, but clearly you were not aware of that.

Argued by countless pilots to be a fancy air show acrobat. Just for an example I will quote John Turner – Euro fighter Pilot – Farnborough air show 1996.

No need to quote a pilot that has never flown an aircraft with trust vectoring let alone ever faced one. Most pilots that have flown trust vectored aircraft including F-22 pilots can vouch that it gives them a major advantage, and not just in post stall maneuvers. Trust vectoring engines enhance an aircraft’s performance…period. I don’t think Lockheed Martin would put Trust vectoring engines in the F22 if it would degrade performance as you claim, nor would they waste large sums of money by incorporating trust vectoring. There has been a lot of red faced pilots that has gone up against aircraft that performed post stall maneuvers, German Migs made a mockery of F-16’s, in one exercise one F-16 took 18 Archers from a Mig-29.

 

[JonAsad]

as iceing on the cake,we have the capability to produce
1.Mig-21 bisons
2.LCA Tejas
3.BVR missiles

right now i dont think so- -

 

[Tumba]

Oh what a great RCS of SU-30 mki.
Aircraft Radar cross section (estimate)
Sukhoi Su-30MKI -------------> 20 square metres
JF17 -------------------> 3-4 Square metres
Dassault Rafale ----------------> 2 square metres
Eurofighter Typhoon ----------------> 1 square metre
Sukhoi Su-35BM ------------------- > 1 square metre
Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk-------------------> 0.025 square metres
Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor--------------> 0.0001 square metres

He he he, too much RCS for SU30 -MKI.
MKI is inviting itself to shoot him.

Counters measures:
1. Enhance AWACS in numbers.
2. Get advantage of F7s, 400 mirage with AWACS. Just matter of see first, then pilot skills.
3. Hack the data link of SU 30 MKI if he comes in our Land. There are pretty good hackers in our country. Just hack their communication with IAF, Not only hack, but also alternate the instructions of CIPs(Common Integrated Processor) of SU 30MKI using virus. Iranian used virus and just alternated the instruction on drone. Hacking data link communication of SU30MKIwill have unique Advantage.
Create hackers, Hack the enemy.

i dont knw if you really understands what kind of assets your air force needs to take advantage of big RCS of Su - 30 MKIs ...
MKI is a big bad beast with bigger radar and long range missiles ... MKI will detect all your fighters well in advance .... and send R-77 towards you much earlier in salvo of two each for every fighter ... i am not sorry to say .. but your air force is dead meat infront of IAF and specially against Su-30 mkis....

 

[Skull and Bones]

Dec 14, 2008, PM: Aircraft Descriptions:

Lahore: 2x Indian Air Force Su-30 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 3x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 3x F-7s
Muzaffarabad: 3x Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 2x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 2x F-7s.
BREAKING NEWS: PAF Chases away Indian Jets « Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

People here that have links to PAF have confirmed this....

Ok mate! I saw what you did there.

Did you just posted the link of a blog?

Sorry, my mistake. I should have thought that you people have grown up reading Rupee news, so even blogs will do fine for you guys.

 

[acetophenol]

right now i dont think so- -

you are wrong jon bhai,
we are making tejas in home as of now.

 

[Skull and Bones]

right now i dont think so- -

We think the same.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Oh what a great RCS of SU-30 mki.
Aircraft Radar cross section (estimate)
Sukhoi Su-30MKI -------------> 20 square metres
JF17 -------------------> 3-4 Square metres
Dassault Rafale ----------------> 2 square metres
Eurofighter Typhoon ----------------> 1 square metre
Sukhoi Su-35BM ------------------- > 1 square metre
Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk-------------------> 0.025 square metres
Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor--------------> 0.0001 square metres

He he he, too much RCS for SU30 -MKI.
MKI is inviting itself to shoot him.

Counters measures:
1. Enhance AWACS in numbers.
2. Get advantage of F7s, 400 mirage with AWACS. Just matter of see first, then pilot skills.
3. Hack the data link of SU 30 MKI if he comes in our Land. There are pretty good hackers in our country. Just hack their communication with IAF, Not only hack, but also alternate the instructions of CIPs(Common Integrated Processor) of SU 30MKI using virus. Iranian used virus and just alternated the instruction on drone. Hacking data link communication of SU30MKIwill have unique Advantage.
Create hackers, Hack the enemy.

Dear Sir ...

i have a few questions kindly do replay
#1 Do you think Mki's will come in isolation?????????

#2 what do you think about Phalcon AWACS...why India bought it...& why its called probabally best in its class????????

#3 what will PAF gonna do about MKI's Radar(200Km trackin range + can engage 6 targets simontainously) + carries 12 AAM's with 100 Km plus range...often more than trackin range of your Jf-17

#4 what about indian soft power(hackkers & software proffessionals)

kindly do replay ..Thanks Again

 

[notorious_eagle]

it may be godzilla on RCS but its EW suite and ECM can more than hold its own

No doubt but your adversary is also fielding some of the latest ECM tech, carrying Israeli EW tech does not automatically make it invincible. The question is can MKI's self protection pod hold against assets that are specifically designed to carry out electronic warfare, that is something nobody knows not even the IAF because they don't know what sort of EW gear the adversary is fielding.

the SU-30MKI is designed to go deep into enemy airspace in order to achieve air superiority don't forget we can put 12 AAM's on that and the RVV-AE is much more capable than the AMRAAM C5

Those extra missiles are the first thing the MKI pilot will jettison once he realizes that a BVRAAM is on its way capable of conducting 50G's of manoeuvres, the TVC wont help in this scenario. The MKI is designed to enter deep into enemy airspace, the only question is how much resistance is going to be offered?

not to mention the MKI's has the most advanced and capable fighter radar in the subcontinent so capable that the MKI could be used as a mini awacs which make its handy if it is on fighter escort missions.

But your adversaries fielding AWACS and 3D ground radars pretty much cancels out this advantage.

hands down the SU-30MKI is the best fighter operational in the subcontinent and perhaps even all of asia.

Is it better than the F15 Strike Eagles that South Korea is going to field or Euro Fighters that Saudi Arabia is going to field? No doubt SU30MKI is a very good machine but dont make it out to be something its not. Wars are not fought on 1 on 1 basis, its fought in a collective cohesive force.

and for that over confident USAF pilot go eat a fat one.

That over confident pilot has been a test pilot for more than 15 years on the F15, he has thousands of hours under his belt. He was being blunt in his assessment, the facts are the SU30MKI got hammered to the point where the IAF pilots refused to fight 1 on 1 A2A fights. I know this was a big ego hurt for the Indian fanboys here on this forum because they were making the SU30MKI out into some God Gift of Aviation.

 

[JonAsad]

We think the same.

about what?-
right now JF-17 are past the trial stages are up and flying- are combat ready- firing- A2A-A2G missiles-

 

[RazPaK]

I have been out of the PAF for a few years now- and in some respects have as much access to sources now as some civvie aviation fanatics- but still do retain contacts which give me the inside scoop sometimes. Here's my unbiased opinion on what happened in this incident. First some disclaimers- the IAF NEVER gave Chibber a big gallantry award- this was a routine award for a job well done- like an Air Medal in the USAF- not an award in the league of a Medal of Honor or DFC! Secondly, in this particular occasion, the PAF was bested- there, I said it- there's no shame in it- there have been many occasions in the past conflicts of 1965 and 1971 when it was the other way around- any professional pilot will tell you that success and failure are two sides of the same coin- anyone who claims to be invincible is lying or an adolescent amatuer masquerading as a professional. To lay this story to rest- and though the PAF is understandably not keen to trumpet it around town- those in the know know- lets keep it at that, so I'm not exactly revealing any state secrets.

The PAF in Kargil was NEVER tasked to aggressively counter the IAF (forget the crap about them being scared)- it was very much an Army (read Musharraf) show- with even the civilian leadership in the dark about some aspects. Our friendly neighborhood tinpot dictator (Musharraf) then looked for scrapegoats- so he got rid of Nawaz and then turned on the PAF for not doing its job (bullshit!!!) by firing much of its top brass recently. Forgive me for digressing, but as someone who dedicated his life to the service of Pakistan, I hate to see it falling back into dictatorship. But the key message is- the PAF was never under orders to engage the IAF, unless they crossed the LOC. On this occasion, I gather the Indian MiG-27s did cross the LOC briefly and the local NLI commander who was having the crap bombed out of him called in desparately for support- the PAF, which had been frustrated at having to sit it out till now, saw an opportunity to bloody the IAF nose as they were reported to have crossed the LOC. Two Falcons on alert were vectored into the MiGs, but received the jolt of their lives when an IAF MiG-29 locked onto BOTH of them (to answer the ongoing debate I see on this aspect of the IAF Mig-29s capability). They tried to break lock- but the MiG persisted, and while I do agree they could have pressed home- there were some controlling factors:
1) strict orders not to cross the LOC
2) Hell, they thought they were about to get a salvo of R-27s up their noses...as an aside, one of the Falcon pilots was a greenhorn and was pretty shaken by this experience- got razzed to death for weeks afterwards.

What would have happened if the Falcons had pressed home- who knows???? The MiG had a definite BVR edge and in close combat with the R-73/HMS, all bets are off. Plus, if the Falcons did cross the LOC, they would have been fair game to any other MiG-29s lurking about as they would no longer be over friendly terriotory- sometimes discretion is the better part of valour, n'est c'est pas?

Did you just write that?

 

[acetophenol]

i dont see any international source reported your daily glory story of alleged LOC crossing killings-

thats good!!!!

---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

about what?-
right now JF-17 are past the trial stages and are up and flying- firing- A2A-A2G missiles-

tejas is also flying and firing A2A A2G missiles!

 

[prabhakar]

PAKISTANI assuming that IAf will play into the hands of PAF we will play at our strength.

Just let me ask

For how long f-16 18 Blk 52 can remain in the air without having reservice. I think for every one hour of flying it needs a rest of 8 Hrs. The availabilty and efficiency of This blk 52 is a big question mark...on the other hand MKI enjoys on all this front

 

[DARKY]

^

Did you just write that?

I you were referring to my post then no I copied and pasted... don't ask from where...lol..