How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Wet Shirt Contest]

The MKI is a really advanced jet. Even though, in case of war, a few MKI may be shot down, its not possible for pakistan to bring down 100+ MKIs with just f16s, even if pakistanis find weakness with the MKI.

To Counter Su30 Mki I Think....PAF 'll Work Under AWACS Umbrella Within Their Respective Border With Jets Capable Of Data Link + BVR Payloads. Once They Know Whats Coming, they can get into favorable position and try their luck in BVR Battle. But Not To Forget Su30Mki's Are Armed With a Powerful NIIP N011M Bars, Good AAM's And Effective Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer.

 

[Shinigami]

[/COLOR]the best thing for pakistan is-
1.increase the number of their aircrafts and try to build up numerical superiority.
2.build up surface to air missile capability

Exactly.

The best way to counter IAF is by air defence ie SAMs

 

[Tracy]

To Counter Su30 Mki I Think....PAF 'll Work Under AWACS Umbrella Within Their Respective Border With Jets Capable Of Data Link + BVR Payloads. Once They Know Whats Coming, they can get into favorable position and try their luck in BVR Battle. But Not To Forget Su30Mki's Are Armed With a Powerful NIIP N011M Bars, Good AAM's And Effective Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer.

Sir, what if we take super sukhoi in context ?

 

[joekrish]

Not a big aeroplane guy but I do have a few doubts -
1. By this logic does it mean that the F-16's can take down aF-15's with far more ease.
2. Do missiles like the K-100 and Meteor have no role to play?
3. Would the MKI's not have the Phalcon AWACS advantage also?
4. Would a war mean stand off,s between only two brands or models of planes or would nt most of them be in formations and if so would nt disadvatge of one fighter be covered by another, be it F-16 or MKI.

 

[sputnik]

The problem with such kind of analysis is they take into account, 1 Vs 1 and neglect other factors. therefore, arriving on any conclusion with such analysis is useless. as said, military plans gone in kapot once first bullet fired.

 

[Tracy]

Not a big aeroplane guy but I do have a few doubts -
1. By this logic does it mean that the F-16's can take down aF-15's with far more ease.
2. Do missiles like the K-100 and Meteor have no role to play?
3. Would the MKI's not have the Phalcon AWACS advantage also?
4. Would a war mean stand off,s between only two brands or models of planes or would nt most of them be in formations and if so would nt disadvatge of one fighter be covered by another, be it F-16 or MKI.

In Case Of War PAF 'll act As a defensive force (mostly defensive offensive or defensive 2) missions....so i don't think IAF AWACS will help much because su30mki 'll strike deep into enemy airspace. but in other hand PAF can use AWACS advantage in their airspace and prepare a counter move.

PS: I am not taking other IAF fighters into account....(read thread topic)

 

[Edevelop]

Air to Air Tactics:

- 2 JF-17 blk I vs 1 Su-30MkI
or
- 2 F-16 blk 30 vs 1 SU-30MKI
or
- 1 F-16 Blk 52 vs 1 Su-30 MKI
or
- 1 J-10B vs 1 SU-30MKI

Miscellaneous:

- AWACS ---- Saab Erieye 2000 and ZDK-03
- Air refuelling Aircrafts- ---- Ilyushin Il-78
- SAMs --- Spada 2000

 

[Tracy]

Air to Air Tactics:

- 2 JF-17 blk I vs 1 Su-30MkI
or
- 2 F-16 blk 30 vs 1 SU-30MKI
or
- 1 F-16 Blk 52 vs 1 Su-30 MKI
or
- 1 J-10B vs 1 SU-30MKI

Miscellaneous:

- AWACS ---- Saab Erieye 2000 and ZDK-03
- Air refuelling Aircrafts- ---- Ilyushin Il-78
- SAMs --- Spada 2000

I don't Think that above post is correct. because IAF 'll have numerical advantage over paf and MKI's are gonna come in packs. i think sukhoi30mki (or super sukhoi) equip with brahmos 'll be the game changer here.

 

[acetophenol]

Air to Air Tactics:

- 2 JF-17 blk I vs 1 Su-30MkI
or
- 2 F-16 blk 30 vs 1 SU-30MKI
or
- 1 F-16 Blk 52 vs 1 Su-30 MKI
or
- 1 J-10B vs 1 SU-30MKI

Miscellaneous:

- AWACS ---- Saab Erieye 2000 and ZDK-03
- Air refuelling Aircrafts- ---- Ilyushin Il-78
- SAMs --- Spada 2000

and for the mig-29,mirage 2000,rafale,tejas,mig-21 bison.......................etc???

 

[Tracy]

and for the mig-29,mirage 2000,rafale,tejas,mig-21 bison.......................etc???

we are only taking su30mki or super sukhoi in context i guess.... ?

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Air to Air Tactics:

- 2 JF-17 blk I vs 1 Su-30MkI
or
- 2 F-16 blk 30 vs 1 SU-30MKI
or
- 1 F-16 Blk 52 vs 1 Su-30 MKI
or
- 1 J-10B vs 1 SU-30MKI

Miscellaneous:

- AWACS ---- Saab Erieye 2000 and ZDK-03
- Air refuelling Aircrafts- ---- Ilyushin Il-78
- SAMs --- Spada 2000

Dude, when it comes to fighter aircrafts, 2 is not necessarily equal to one.

An MKI's radar range will help it eliminate the FC-1's before they even discover what hit them.

 

[MastanKhan]

The MKI is a really advanced jet. Even though, in case of war, a few MKI may be shot down, its not possible for pakistan to bring down 100+ MKIs with just f16s, even if pakistanis find weakness with the MKI.

Hi,

I see that you are still in the numbers----100 is too much---a number between 15--20 su 30 shot down by paf on day 1, would run shudders in the ranks of Iaf. Once the cloak of invincibility is shattered---the psyche will be blown away.

The myth of the su 30 will either be shattered on day 1 of the combat or it will be the end game for paf. But once the myth gets shattered---the rest of the iaf will be no match.

 

[acetophenol]

we are only taking su30mki or super sukhoi in context i guess.... ?

anyway PAF is not going to sort out SU-30mki and fight them alone in the event of a war!

 

[acetophenol]

Hi,

I see that you are still in the numbers----100 is too much---a number between 15--20 su 30 shot down by paf on day 1, would run shudders in the ranks of Iaf. Once the cloak of invincibility is shattered---the psyche will be blown away.

The myth of the su 30 will either be shattered on day 1 of the combat or it will be the end game for paf.

how do you expect to shoot down 25-30 mki on day 1?

But once the myth gets shattered---the rest of the iaf will be no match.

imagine even without the mki,
how do you think to take out IAF with its
1.MIG-29 upg
2.Mirage -2000
3.MIG-21 bison

and in near future
1.Rafale
2.Tejas

 

[Free Soul]

The is just a statement based on lack of knowledge. The engines are not exposed, the unpainted area of the fuselage is just that, the fusalage. Some Flankers do have that part of the fusalage painted. Search a video search, ‘Sukhoi factory’ and see what I mean.

And exactly this video proves my point that Engine is not encased in Fuselage. The engines are put in sort of engine nacelles. These are metallic casing not part of fuselage. See the distinct colour difference, the rest of the airframe is yellowish. The fuselage takes a cone shape past the cockpit (central beam section) extending back to tail forming a tip. Have a look at the photos the Engines are overly exposed, have a look at top of the engine nacelles. My argument is that because of these facts the IRS would be higher.
Images below are taken from the video that you have linked.

Please just stop, for one TVC can be controlled, the pilot can choose to perform, wide turns, tight, terns, or a post stall to cause an overshoot.
The point of the scissors, especially is to cause the other guy to overshoot. The aircraft with TVC can operate in speeds that would cause a conventional aircraft to stall.

And argument presented by me is that you don’t want to loose elevation while doing that. Seems like in every move the SU-30 wants to apply the ‘hand breaks’. All of these are so predictable moves, and sometimes deadly in practice.
In a climb you never want to stall first, the idea is your opponent stalls first or roughly the same time with you having the elevation advantage, so you can get behind him - post stall - in a dive and gun him down. One needs to know his own potential energy and that of the opponent’s + you want to minimize your time in the stall so that you get back the control of your aircraft quickly – with TVC you are causing drag and potentially lowering your aircraft’s ceiling [putting yourself in post stall early] .
With greater mass creating drag, going post stall and loosing elevation should never be the aim. Like in RED FLAG While climbing in scissors thrust vectoring puts the aircraft in post stall manoeuvre, the rear end drops and instead of going up the aircraft starts loosing elevation.

Any Flanker can do the cobra with a full weapons load.

Argued by countless pilots to be a fancy air show acrobat. Just for an example I will quote John Turner – Euro fighter Pilot – Farnborough air show 1996.

Big problem that I have and most of the combat pilots that I have spoken to feel the same way, is that these are wonderful effects for an air show but don’t do much when you are in combat. And if you have a look at Harrier VIFF manoeuvre, when it was at first introduced it was thought to be absolutely wonderful. Not so much in Combat situations. He uses his nozzle just to slow his aircraft and make it stationary in air for a while. Well I have flown in a Phantom against someone doing that – and it was horrifying the first time you saw it, the second time you just shoot him out of the sky, because you know where he is going to be for the next few moments. That actually makes the combat pilot predictable, and one thing you do not want to in a modern combat is let the enemy know what you are going to do next.