How many of you believe in UMMA or Islamic Brotherhood ?

[asq]

Where has mischief been created in the regions of China you refered to by India ?

In any case creating trouble in another nation for pollitical gain is something nations / states / kingdoms have done since times immemorial.

Justifying it on religious grounds ( more to one's own self than others) & using religion as an excuse is what I am objecting to.

If mischef is meant to be created across the borders .. by all means go ahead. Only nations must have the gumption to admit doing so (and face the consquences as well) and not hide behind higher principles in a religion like Ummah . Coz in so doing not only does the religion get a bad name it also seems hollow when the word Ummah is used beyond social applications.

Indians are so fierced thast they are blinded by hate of Pakistan that they donot see the facts and keep blaming Pakistan for all the evils in India.

Stop jumping to self concocted consclusions and than talk.

 

[Omar1984]

We know that the Ummah will eventually be united, there's many Hadith suggesting it, but I dont think we'll be united right now. There's a hadith that says before the day of Judgement there'll be so many Muslims on earth (in numbers) but they will be too divided and too weak and we see that today. All today's Muslims care about is nationality, ethnic groups, race, languages, their country or ethnic groups' history but none of that will matter when we enter our graves. Only thing that will matter is our Religion when we enter our grave.


I personally think that Muslims want to be united with one another but the enemies of Muslims dont want to see Muslims united. The enemies of Muslims want to snatch Muslim majority land because Muslim majority land is rich in natural resources.

 

[third eye]

Indians are so fierced thast they are blinded by hate of Pakistan that they donot see the facts and keep blaming Pakistan for all the evils in India.

Stop jumping to self concocted consclusions and than talk.

Where in any of my posts in this topic do you see a reference to Pakistan ?

Who is jumping to conclusions ? Not I.

 

[Omar1984]

Indians should not be allowed to comment in this thread because we all know what indians feel about Muslim unity and Islamic Brotherhood, they would hate it if all Muslims united.

 

[blueoval79]

^^^^

Muslims have never been united....they have been fighting amongst themselves ....its like a man against a man...Family against a family....Sect against a sect and Islam against the whole world.

Tell me in recent or Medieval times ...how many times have Muslim rulers and for that matter Muslim tribes have not shed blood of their own Muslim brothers...even fathers have been killed by their sons ...just for sake of getting power. Its always about power...even in the UAE ...the rulers of different Emirates are looking for the opportunities to pull each other down...

Now come to recent times...the time we live in ....Pakistan is in trouble ...and the whole world knows that.....how many Muslim countries have actually come together to bail Pakistan out of the troubles Pakistan is in these days..

Think and you will get the answer of whether there is ...or ever was an Ummah or there will be an Ummah.

 

[Hyde]

^^^^

Muslims have never been united....they have been fighting amongst themselves ....its like a man against a man...Family against a family....Sect against a sect and Islam against the whole world.

For your kind information Muslims can't stay united whatsoever. When Prophet Muhammad S.A.W migrated from Makkah to Madina, he helped building the first Mosque in Madina called "Masjid-e-Kuba". He lead a prayer there and ask Allah to fullfill 3 of his wishes. The first two wishes were accepted and the third wish that "Muslims should always remain united" was reject by Allah.

There are various sayings of the Prophet (Ahadeeth) confirming Muslims cannot remain united, and the sects will be born amongst them..... the essence of one of the Hadeeth is that Hazrat Umar is the door of Fitnah meaning when he will die The Fitnah will start entering into the Muslim world and as witnessed by the Muslims after his death Muslims were desperate to choose a Caliph and that caliph was chosen by the guidelines of Hazrat Umar R.A. but that Caliph lived a life in very difficuilty and from thereafter there was not a moment when Muslims could ever stay united.

I hope you got my point

 

[blueoval79]

^^^^^^

All I could understand from the post was...."Muslims cant stay united" ....and that pretty much blasts the Idea of Ummah out of the window.

 

[Hyde]

^^^^^^

All I could understand from the post was...."Muslims cant stay united" ....and that pretty much blasts the Idea of Ummah out of the window.

True Muslims can't stay united but the word Ummah means something else. Ummah is a nation and Muslims can live in harmony as a nation

The only problem is their way of thinking cannot be straight forward, you will have peoples with diversified views that may be contradicting with each other 200% opposite.

However they can still live together as a nation like we did under the caliphate of Rashidun, Ummayad, Othoman, Mughals etc etc. There is a difference between the word nation and the unity.

 

[third eye]

In the social plain Ummah is good & relevant. Other religions too espouse the same thought in different ways.

When applied in the political field, it is a miscarriage of the thought / principle as proved by countless examples.

As regards living in harmony.. all religions are in the same slot.

 

[blueoval79]

True Muslims can't stay united but the word Ummah means something else. Ummah is a nation and Muslims can live in harmony as a nation

The only problem is their way of thinking cannot be straight forward, you will have peoples with diversified views that may be contradicting with each other 200% opposite.

However they can still live together as a nation like we did under the caliphate of Rashidun, Ummayad, Othoman, Mughals etc etc. There is a difference between the word nation and the unity.

Fine....considering the geopolitical situation that prevails today....do you think Clubbing the whole Muslim Population into one nation is a possibility....the answer is "No".....All those leaders sitting on top ...will not let that happen...so i think is High-time that people come out of this idea of so called Ummah ....and contribute towards their own country...rather than thinking that one fine day ...the whole Muslim community will get united .....its simply not possible.

 

[Hyde]

Fine....considering the geopolitical situation that prevails today....do you think Clubbing the whole Muslim Population into one nation is a possibility....the answer is "No".....All those leaders sitting on top ...will not let that happen...so i think is High-time that people come out of this idea of so called Ummah ....and contribute towards their own country...rather than thinking that one fine day ...the whole Muslim community will get united .....its simply not possible.

Nobody is asking for all Muslims countries to get united once again - We want the hearts of the Ummah to be united and not the borders. They can live seperately in the different countries anywhere they wan - thats not a problem. We don't want to lift their borders. Keep those borders where they are............... all we want is the goal of the ummah should be one and we must be saying "Labbayk" for the any good cause of these nations.

Don't worry you won't understand that easily - first you have to understand what really this Ummah means

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think gov have made considerable progress in some fronts

Turkey /Pakistan / Iran / Saudia / Egypt

More has to be done to interact with Malasia & Libya

 

[Saleem]

Along the lines of what graphican suggested in post #24:

we have to understand that the message is divine, its interpretation and implementation is not. The ideal goal is mutually reinforcing community that works for betterment of each other in this life and the next. but it seems to me humans and human institutions tend to lose their way over time, therefore, it seems to me, there is no divine directive establishing a leadership or organization to implement this. We have the guidelines of what behavior is expected and the promise of what we get if we follow it. So the job is to follow personally all that the guidelines recommend and persuade others to the extent possible. It has to be voluntary - it has to come from the heart! Any attempt to enforce it will fail in its purpose.

the islamic concept of nationhood, as practiced by the osmanlis, is on the basis of faith

It is intersting someone suggested the ummah died with the ottoman empire. As an aside it seems I read that the osmanlis called their state osmanli devlet or osman's commonwealth!
the traditional muslim self identity was localized to the city - hence "isphahani" etc. The larger group was tribe or clan. In most cases what the europeans called nations were as alien as martians (perhaps more so) - e.g. the founder of "modern egypt" mehmet ali or muhammad ali was allegedly an albanian.but all we know is that he was born in what is now called albania. his mother may have been a descendant of refugees from a andalus and his father may have been a uzbek - we dont know because they did not keep track of these things.

interestingly, this was also true of non muslim subjects of the osmanlis.

the present day "middle east" (as someone said: if china is the celestial empire - and the center of the world - then where is the "real" middle east?) had stirrings of "nations" when the europeans were seeking influence in the osmanli lands and patronized various groups prodding them along to create a mythology for their "nations" (imagined communities by benedict anderson - among others).

thus the concept of ummah is more real, for us, than the "nations" the european colonisers tried to force down the throats of their "native" subjects - witness orientalism in action.

 

[blueoval79]

Nobody is asking for all Muslims countries to get united once again - We want the hearts of the Ummah to be united and not the borders. They can live seperately in the different countries anywhere they wan - thats not a problem. We don't want to lift their borders. Keep those borders where they are............... all we want is the goal of the ummah should be one and we must be saying "Labbayk" for the any good cause of these nations.

Now thats confusing...some say ...Ummah means one Islamic entity....where people live under Sharia laws ...and all that....some say the exact opposite....


Whatever ...but its difficult to get Muslims to come together now... especially because the economic and political gap that has been created has become bigger than ever before.

Don't worry you won't understand that easily - first you have to understand what really this Ummah means

Would you try and explain it to me.....

 

[Fighter488]

Iqbal once wrote with his usual vigour, flamboyance, simple words and enthusiasm :

Aik Hon Muslim Haram Ki Pasbani Kay Liyey
Neel Kay Saahil Say Lay Kar Ta-Ba-Khak-E-KashGhar

(Crude translation: Muslim must unite to protect their faith and way of life right from Nile river up to Kashghar city)

The idea was more impracticle politically than correct emotionally.
Today Muslim Ummah do not exist at political and government level, not even in Saudi Arabia (running under Sharia laws) and its GCC brothers.

The more nearer, the concept of Muslim Ummah can reach to, is to start with :

1. Establishing a common econimc zone of preferences for OIC

2. Sustained and common efforts for education, healthcare and scientific R&D.

3. A pool of currency derived from OIC members to deal for International transactions.

4. A basic platform media channels, newspapers and magazines to present the Muslim view and counerviews to International Community. It must comprise writers, presentors, journalists etc. from OIC members.


That is the best Musim Ummah can achieve in the name of brotherhood in next 25-50 years. Once this target is achieved higher goals can be set.

Fighter