How many of you believe in UMMA or Islamic Brotherhood ?

[Usama86]

I really dont understand people who think that the idea of Ummah is unrealistic or hypothetical. As far as religon goes Islam has always strongly emphasised on Unity, we pray in a Jammat as a symbol of unity, every muslim is a brother to another muslim no matter what part of the world they are from. I dont need to remind any one about muhajareen and Ansar. I think that the fabric of the muslim society is based on unity and brotherhood. Now lets look at the world's super power US, UNITED STATES of America. Dont you see that its called UNITED States a few very rich states carry the burden of the less fortunate ones but they are UNITED hence strong. The second bigest power house the EU, European Union. Now who would have thought that a continent which was at the heart of the two world wars would UNITE to form the EU. Its exemplary how they put their diffirences aside to achieve one common goal. I am sure most of us on this forum have witnessed this event when the Euro was introduced and all the economies where combined etc etc.... other examples.... USSR was powerful now Russia not so powerful. The lesson is so very simple Strength is in Unity, you dont even have to look at a religon book to figure it out. The Capital of Khilafat moved from Medina to Baghdad to Istanbul but UNITY of the Ummah was always at the heart of every capital.

 

[Hyde]

Muslim brotherhood? Not anymore.

Once the Ottoman empire died, that idea is pretty much dead.

But I believe in local Muslim brotherhood. Like in your country only.

The Muslim brotherhood or the "Ummah/nation" can never die................ Doesn't matter if we have difference of opinion, speaking different languages, belongs to different race, colour, groups, countries. But when the word "Labbayk - Allah humma Labbayk" is recited - Everybody is rushing together towards the Holy Land of Makkah repeating the same verse regardless of any language he speaks.

Our way of thinking can be different, but our hearts beat together take an example of our Nuclear bomb when we exploded - Even the black guy in africa who did not even hear about Pakistan before celeberated in our success

Thats what Ummah is.......... and the idelogy of Ummah is to stay here forever

 

[EjazR]

Well if you believe the being a part of the Ummah means that that every muslim should help you politically and that it is some politico-religious-military alliance, then ofcourse not. There is nothing Islamic about it anyways. And this is where people go and say, ah no I don't see any Ummathood because no one supporting muslims in a "political" way.

Ofcourse, in these times when we(muslims) are not even practicing some basic fundamentals of Islam like prayers, being honest, giving in charity e.t.c. not having a feeling of brother hood with our neighbors and with the wider world is hardly surprising.

How much have we helped the poor countries like somalia or Yemen with development aid? How much have you personally helped poor muslims or even non-muslims around the world? That is the real proof of Ummathood. As I have said before Ummat-e-Muhammed as it comes in the Quran and Hadith refers to all mankind till the day of judgement. By focusing on Ummat-e-Muslimah, you are focusing on a subset of the ummah as referred to in Quran and Hadith.

As long as people think of a Ummat hood that should come to political benefit of just one or two countries/section of people to the detriment of others, then this will not work. The example of Hajj and Umrah where people around the world gather without any political agendas but help each other despite the hardships is an example of this in practice.

 

[Desert Fox]

Believing in Ummah is an obligation as was pointed out by many members in this thread! But there is a lot of racism, nationalism, and hatred in this Ummah! Muslims treating each other like animals, betraying each other.

Right now Pakistan is already in enough problems, and for now we should focus on Pakistan ONLY, after we have fixed our internal problems then we can move on to help and unite other Muslims!

 

[Pasban]

In 1980, soon after the Islamic Revolution (Engelab-e-Eslami), Emam Khomeini said:

"We do not worship Iran we worship Allah; for patriotism is another word for paganism. I say let this land (of Iran) burn! I say let this land (of Iran) go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world!"

Sadly, however, Emam Khomeini's vision did not fit his time well nor does ours. An Islamic Umma'ath is present, however, it's level of coordination and closeness as well integration is open to question, which to my reasoning is almost negligible. I will post a purposely chosen Hadith and Ayath.

The Prophet (peace be up on him) said, "Those that have even a drop of hate within them, shall not enter paradise."

The Qur'an states: "Believers are not more than brothers to another. Thus reconcile amongst your brethren, and fear thy Lord, that thou may receive mercy." [49:10]


At present, however, the Muslim Umm'ath has distanced itself from these teachings and destined Islamic Brotherhood to hypocrisy. I believe I have said this somewhere before also. To highlight one example, the hypocrisy of Islamic brotherhood, much exported and highlighted by the Arab states during the 70s & 80s, came alive during their united support of Saddam Yazid against a battle-weary and under-armed Muslim youth of a lone Iran whom they proudly helped Saddam bleed for 8 consecutive years. If more of this is to continue under the name of brotherhood, then I would surely salute it from a distance.

I use the above example to point out the mockery that was made out of the broader feeling of Muslim unity and solidarity during the course of the Iran-Iraq war by some of those same faces that had been outspoken in that regard. They say the tree rots from the top and this was more than evident during that period for those that worked as accomplices in imposing war on Iran.

Brotherhood requires oneness without distinction and unity in face of division to be true.

Edit:
Addressing nationalism limited to countries: At a higher level and more contemplative level, I feel ultra-nationalism can be counter-productive and lays the seeds for negativity. It forges negative views of external races, religions and cultures. In their extremity, such movements always become "purists" in the long-run and bring retrogression eventually. As William Blum put it: "If love is blind, patriotism has lost all five senses." Hence, the above quotation I posted from Emam Khomeini. He was referring to such sentiment. Love for one's own should not come from the loathing of others. In fact, Emam Khomeini asked the people to set aside their individualistic (and often individual-materialistic) urges aside in face of greater communal (national) good for all their people (and the Muslim world in a broader sense). Thought someone would need a clarification for the quote..

 

[Kompromat]

This highly hypothetical brotherhood or ummah idea was a brain child of Hasan al Banna (1906 - 1949) which was later revived by Sayyed Qutb , Mowdudi and at the end Osama-Zawahiri gangs. These are all non state actors as no single government in the world talks about this. People who talk about these ummah things never receive any legal sanctuary anywhere except in Iran ( in south Lebanon) and their last hope is blogs and web forum like this where they are tolerated.

Was it supposed to make any sense dear sir ?

 

[graphican]

Well if you believe the being a part of the Ummah means that that every muslim should help you politically and that it is some politico-religious-military alliance, then ofcourse not. There is nothing Islamic about it anyways. And this is where people go and say, ah no I don't see any Ummathood because no one supporting muslims in a "political" way.

Ejaz,

Ummah is a lot lot more than what you are trying to describe it as. Tell me who else in your life is close to you or likely to help you at the time of trouble more than your brother? Brother-to-Brother has great relationship that has multiple dimensions in it. Brother stands beside you at every time of trouble, regardless of type, kind and degree of risk it involves. May be brother-to-brother relation is not as beautiful as it was before but never forget what did Holy Prophet PBUH meant when he was saying that.

When Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH did Mowahat (established bond of brotherhood between Mahajirs and Ansars), that can give you an idea what it means to become brother of other Muslim. You want to say Muslim (as by the book) will not sacrifice his money, life or personal gains then what is meaning of brother-hood? Just to have a nice company at the time when everything is hunky-dory?

What is your reason of believing that Muslims are not Socio-Political-Regional entity and on what grounds? May be we are not good Muslims but by the books and in the light of Islam, Muslims are brothers and such a close entity no matter where they are.

 

[Cheetah786]

This highly hypothetical brotherhood or ummah idea was a brain child of Hasan al Banna (1906 - 1949) which was later revived by Sayyed Qutb , Mowdudi and at the end Osama-Zawahiri gangs. These are all non state actors as no single government in the world talks about this. People who talk about these ummah things never receive any legal sanctuary anywhere except in Iran ( in south Lebanon) and their last hope is blogs and web forum like this where they are tolerated.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh Guy living in England never heard of the government talk about unity, I guess European union is nowhere near England

 

[graphican]

Muslim brotherhood? Not anymore.

Once the Ottoman empire died, that idea is pretty much dead.

But I believe in local Muslim brotherhood. Like in your country only.

You want to say you do not accept the words of Prophet Muhammad PBUH anymore? I don't think Prophet Muhammad PBUH has even given date beyond which his following statement would become ineffective.

"Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

You are mixing Followers of principles with the principles. Yes right Muslims are weak in their bond of brotherhood but they are weak-in-faith first. A Muslim (which God wants all of us to become) is in very strong with every other Muslim and that doesn't change with time. We need to improve our stature of Islam first and when we do, we all will see all the blessings that Islam had brought will re-appear. Its all inside ourself and nothing lies outside. Improve yourself to see the bong you need to see.

 

[EjazR]

Ejaz,

Ummah is a lot lot more than what you are trying to describe it as. Tell me who else in your life is close to you or likely to help you at the time of trouble more than your brother? Brother-to-Brother has great relationship that has multiple dimensions in it. Brother stands beside you at every time of trouble, regardless of type, kind and degree of risk it involves. May be brother-to-brother relation is not as beautiful as it was before but never forget what did Holy Prophet PBUH meant when he was saying that.

When Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH did Mowahat (established bond of brotherhood between Mahajirs and Ansars), that can give you an idea what it means to become brother of other Muslim. You want to say Muslim (as by the book) will not sacrifice his money, life or personal gains then what is meaning of brother-hood? Just to have a nice company at the time when everything is hunky-dory?

What is your reason of believing that Muslims are not Socio-Political-Regional entity and on what grounds? May be we are not good Muslims but by the books and in the light of Islam, Muslims are brothers and such a close entity no matter where they are.

And where did I say that? Didn't I question why Muslim countries are not providing aid to poor Muslim countries? The universal brotherhood aspect is definitely a part of Islam. Muslim dying in such large numbers in violent deaths is a painful reality for Muslims (as well as any sane non-Muslim who believes in humanity) around the world.

But that doesn't mean say for example Iraq attacks Kuwait and then no one should stop Iraq because of Muslim brotherhood? Or that OBL says killing American civilians is valid and we can't stop that because of Muslim brotherhood. Or that we keep quiet about Uighur Muslims being oppressed and there children not allowed to practice Islam in China and no one should raise this issue just because of Muslim brotherhood because China is a close ally of Pakistan?

The point I am making is that many people make out this universal brotherhood that Islam preaches as just involving political expediencies. Some say why Is Egypt or Jordan not attacking Israel, what happened to their muslim brotherhood? But isn't this overlooking the fact that Jordan and Egypt people are worse to suffer?
Didn't the majority of Muslim countries in alliance with the west invoke Muslim brotherhood and Jihad(wrongly) to fight the Soviets and Communists which was basically a proxy war between Soviets and Americans? This is what should be stopped.

There are plenty of sacrifices to be made in the name of brotherhood. There are plenty of Muslims around the world who need basic necessities like food shelter education health e.t.c. When are we willing to sacrifice to that? Or are we just going to be pawns for various powers in their proxy games in the name of Islamic brotherhood like what happened in Afghanistan?

 

[third eye]

Ummah as described by ppl here and as enshrined in the holy book appears to be sound principle of brotherhood..I liked the point highlighted by Junaid 375 in post # 13.

"...we wont go to heaven or our faith is not complete if we sleep full fed and our neighbors are hungry"

But when it begins to get applied outside the social sphere and is used as a justification for terrorists / "non state actors" to cross international boundries problems begin. A chechen or Sudanese has no reason to be in Af or J&K other than to create mischef. He will find enough occasions to help his brethen in his own country.

Next , it is ofen used as a crutch by nations / groups to sustain themselves or seek help. No comments on this, its their way of doing business.

Lastly, in internatinal politics where do we see " Ummah' being applied ? Saddam applied it in the reverse - a poorer nation taking a richer one . Iran & Iraq apparently did / do not share any 'brotherly feelings", little brotherly feelings are felt by those who detonate bombs in Bagdad,Kabul, Pindi, Lahore & countless such places.

So, while it seems to be a good system of social conduct if I can call it that but like all good things has to be employed judiciously.

Finally, holy books ( Bible, Granth Sahaib, Gita, Ramayan,Quran) mention so many other good things. Wonder why we selectivey pick up a few which suit us ?

 

[FreekiN]

You want to say you do not accept the words of Prophet Muhammad PBUH anymore? I don't think Prophet Muhammad PBUH has even given date beyond which his following statement would become ineffective.

"Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood."

You are mixing Followers of principles with the principles. Yes right Muslims are weak in their bond of brotherhood but they are weak-in-faith first. A Muslim (which God wants all of us to become) is in very strong with every other Muslim and that doesn't change with time. We need to improve our stature of Islam first and when we do, we all will see all the blessings that Islam had brought will re-appear. Its all inside ourself and nothing lies outside. Improve yourself to see the bong you need to see.

It's just not the same as it was before. Almost no one is following it. Especially in Pakistan. In fact, people are doing exact opposite and are destroying businesses and lives from 'protests.'

Everything is complicated now. Things are different

 

[U-571]

at third eye, when it comes to chechen, sudanese, afghans, palestinians, you say what a s.cum, when it comes to china its tibet and xinjiang part, you say they are right to create mischief

what is this???

 

[Hyde]

It's just not the same as it was before. Almost no one is following it. Especially in Pakistan. In fact, people are doing exact opposite and are destroying businesses and lives from 'protests.'

Everything is complicated now. Things are different

Why do you like to think in a smaller picture Freekin?

If something is not available does not mean you will not get it tomorrow. Keep trying and one day or another you will find success

 

[third eye]

at third eye, when it comes to chechen, sudanese, afghans, palestinians, you say what a s.cum, when it comes to china its tibet and xinjiang part, you say they are right to create mischief

what is this???

Where has mischief been created in the regions of China you refered to by India ?

In any case creating trouble in another nation for pollitical gain is something nations / states / kingdoms have done since times immemorial.

Justifying it on religious grounds ( more to one's own self than others) & using religion as an excuse is what I am objecting to.

If mischef is meant to be created across the borders .. by all means go ahead. Only nations must have the gumption to admit doing so (and face the consquences as well) and not hide behind higher principles in a religion like Ummah . Coz in so doing not only does the religion get a bad name it also seems hollow when the word Ummah is used beyond social applications.