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How Do You Plan To Counter Phalcon Threat?

How do you plan to counter phalcon threat?


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    28

Owais

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I think that we have 2 wait some years because chinese AWACs killer is still undre developement.as far as russian s-300/400 series,we dont have good relations with them and the last option is for sattelite............Pakistan dont have any sattelite!! :(
 
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I have editted the poll, cause it wasn't really a good poll. So anyways back to the topic.

First as far as AWACs go, well i think the Erieye will make a huge difference being mounted on Saab- 2000 however i prefer other planes for this job such as the ones which are quite heavy.

Suppose we go for heavy aircrafts similar to the transporting aircrafts, they will have a good amount of maintenance cost plus infrastructure to set them up, and the operating cost, will take a huge load of money, but in my opinion they will be quite good for acting like an AWACs because you never know, the AWACs might will have to go in the Indian territory for some mission if it needs to, and if Saab 2000 goes in there, its not quite safe, but it sure have advantages being a small plane, and the operational and maintenance cost wouldn't be that high either.

I think this should clear it up, but also we have many other choices as we all know that Hawkeye 2000 was offered to us a month ago, but it simply doesn't meet the requirements, so i bet they were denied.

About the Russian stuff, well like you just stated, Russian wont give us their high technology to us because of India, but it will be fun to see what happens after India getting some other aircraft from a different country. :P

Also for your information, Pakistan do have satellites but it doesn't have so called SLVs meaning Satellite Lauching Vehicles, but they soon will be developing one.
 
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What is Chinese AWACS killer ???

And abt Indian AWACS, it will operete well behind the borders escorted by fighters , how AWACS killer is going to get them !!

Also India is building indegeneous AWACS based on phased array radars ,at present India is having an home made rotodome AEW system . But Indian top brass has declared rotating dome as obsolete design and has pursued for phased array airborne radar similar to phased array groud radars !!

Any way India is going to use a chain of different AEW platforms instead of only Phalcon ! Also to mention Su30 also acts as a mini AWACS !!
 
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No doubt that India has a very good edge in term of AWACs, the Su-30s give them a very significant edge. But you should also know that Pakistans goal is to keep the minimum detterence and it will do everything it can to keep it.

If Pakistan gets AWACs which will be some where around 7 of them. Also Pakistan is looking for data linking with AWACs for all its fighters to make communication very easy. This can give Pakistan ability to mobilize in the region and keep superiority over the Pakistan Air Space. Although it will be very tough to counter Phalcons, and Su-30s supported by ground array radars. But then Pakistan will be in the same position with F-16s, JF-17s, F-7s and couple others like Mirage ROSE all with the capability of data linking, supported by American and Vera long range radar to counter indegious Indian phased array radars which are still in development.

And we will sure get Vera long range radars until India makes their own.
 
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and we may get Jxx in future.This will enhance the capiblities os PAF n make it more deadly!
as far as F7 and MirageIII/5 are concern,they become scrapy now and will be retired till 2012! :evil: :evil:
 
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What are Vera Radars ??

Also pls post some info abt Chinese AWACS killer .
 
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Czech Republic issues license for sale of Vera Radar to Pak
Tuesday September 20, 2005 (1553 PST)

PRAGUE: The Industry and Trade Ministry of Czech Republic has issued a license for the ERA company, based in Pardubice, east Bohemia, allowing it to export the model version of the Czech-made passive radar system Vera to Pakistan, Ivo Mravinac from the ministry said.
Pakistan will merely lease the system while a new permit will be needed for a possible sale of the radar to this country, he said. CTK has failed to contact ERA for comment, but the company usually does not comment on Vera's export. It is not clear therefore how long the model radar will remain in Pakistan and what are other conditions of the agreement.

He said that in his view the alliance between Pakistan and the USA was superficial and the mood in the country was still strongly anti-western. Vera, produced by the company ERA, is able to detect another radar's presence and determine its type without being detected itself. It consists of three relatively small devices, placed several dozens of kilometers from each other. It can simultaneously monitor up to 200 aircraft and accurately specify their distance and altitude. Vera is a sophisticated successor to the well-known radar Tamara. The Czech Republic has sold Vera to the USA and Estonia, while a number of other countries have shown interest in it, too. China and Vietnam have been rejected as bidders for the Vera system. A number of other countries, including Malaysia and Egypt, have shown interest in it. For the system to be exported abroad the Foreign, Defence and Interior ministries should give their consent, apart from the Industry and Trade Ministry.

Pak Tribune


AWACs killer are known as FT-2000 that Pakistan is planning to get, which will also counter the Patriot system that India might buy from U.S.

FT-2000


Country: China
Basing: Land
Status: Operational, Exported


Details

In a report to Congress on May 28, 2004, the U.S. Department of Defense highlighted the major improvements that China has made to its air and missile defense systems over the past few years, including “[the] development of an antiradiation SAM [surface-to-air missile], most likely intended to target AWACS [Airborne Warning and Control System] aircraft and standoff jamming platforms.”(1)

The report was referring specifically to the FT-2000, a Chinese anti-radiation surface-to-air missile system designed to counter electronic jamming aircraft, AWACS aircraft, and other air radiation wave targets. Developed and manufactured by the China National Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation (CPMIEC) during the late 1990s, the FT-2000 is also believed to be capable of destroying tactical ballistic missiles, similar to the U.S. Patriot and the Russian S-300P systems on which it is based.(2) At present, two versions exist, the mobile FT-2000 and the fixed-based FT-2000A.(3)

The FT-2000 is the direct result of a concerted effort by China to eliminate an inherent vulnerability in medium- and long-range surface-to-air missiles: jamming. For decades, air and missile defense systems like the Patriot and the S-300P have been susceptible to advanced techniques designed to confuse or immobile their interceptor missiles and keep them from reaching their targets. One of the most common jamming devices is S- and C-band airborne noise. If used properly, this and other deception mechanisms lead to what is known as the “suppression of enemy air defenses” and allows attacking aircraft and missiles to proceed to their targets without challenge.(4)

The FT-2000 was designed to neutralize and counter these airborne jamming devices. It contains a passive radar target seeker programmed to detect the specific electromagnetic signals emanating from its target. Essentially, the FT-2000 uses its target’s own jamming frequencies against it. In addition, the FT-2000 has a passive homing system that does not transmit electromagnetic waves, thus minimizing the chances that its enemies will detect it in time.(5) The system is equipped with modified HQ-9 interceptor missiles, each of which is 6.8 meters long, 0.47 meters in diameter, and has a launch weight of 1,300 kilograms. The HQ-9 missiles give the FT-2000 a range of 12 to 100 kilometers and an operating altitude of 3 to 20 kilometers. The mobile system is transported and launched on an 8 X 8 cross-country launcher with four canisters that resemble those used by the S-300P.(6)

In addition to the mobile FT-2000, China has developed a fixed-based variant, the FT-2000A. According to a recent Chinese sales brochure, the FT-2000A uses a highly-modified HQ-2 missile that has been equipped with passive radio frequency homing seekers. Each HQ-2 is armed with a 60-kilogram fragmentation warhead and has a range of 60 kilometers and a maximum altitude of 18 kilometers. Reports indicate that each FT-2000A battery consists of 12 missile launchers, each containing one missile, and a central control station. The central control station has one master passive sensor and three auxiliary passive sensors. The four sensors are capable of triangulating on electromagnetic signals in the 2- and 6-GHz frequency range, which covers most AWACS aircraft and other air radiation wave targets, thus earning it the nickname “AWACS killer.”(7)

In addition to its role as an anti-radiation missile system, the FT-2000 also has advanced capability against tactical ballistic missiles, although this point is seldom mentioned. As Richard D. Fisher, Jr. has pointed out, Chinese officials at the 1998 Zhuhai Air Show—shortly after plans for the FT-2000 had been unveiled—stated that the FT-2000 was being developed into an active-guided missile that eventually would have the ability to shoot down short- and medium-range ballistic missiles.(8) Since the FT-2000 is based on comprehensive systems such as the U.S. Patriot and the S-300P, it is no surprise that it too has anti-missile capabilities.

In October 2003, it was reported that China had closed a deal with its neighbor, Pakistan, to supply the latter with an unspecified number of FT-2000 missiles to counter India’s early warning capabilities. The China-Pakistan deal followed India’s own arrangement with Israel and Russia to install three Israeli Phalcon AWACS on Ilyushin Il-76 freighter aircraft, thus giving it an airborne early warning system.(9) According to various news sources, shortly after India announced its acquisition of the Phalcon radars, Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, the head of Pakistan’s air force, visited China and conveyed Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s wish to purchase an unspecified number of FT-2000s.(10)

The recent China-Pakistan arrangement may just be an attempt to maintain the delicate balance of power between India and Pakistan, both of which possess nuclear weapons. Yet according to an article published in Malaysia in January 2003, the People’s Liberation Army is eager to export the FT-2000 around the globe.(11) It is entirely possible that “AWACS killer” air and missile defense systems like the FT-2000 will soon proliferate throughout Asia, Europe, and the Middle East, a development that would introduce a multitude of strategic problems for the U.S. and its allies.

 
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I don't think that pakistan will be able to get FT-2000 till 2012! bec'z of its economic situation! :youknowme:
 
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No, i am sure we will get at least one AWACs by 2012 they should be bough and they are needed to keep the minimum detterence.
 
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Will the S-300/S-400 ABM systems that India possess (not sure abt S-400) be able to shoot the pak awacs deep inside their own territory ? since their range is around 400 Km's ?
 
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No doubt that India has a very good edge in term of AWACs, the Su-30s give them a very significant edge. But you should also know that Pakistans goal is to keep the minimum detterence and it will do everything it can to keep it.

If Pakistan gets AWACs which will be some where around 7 of them. Also Pakistan is looking for data linking with AWACs for all its fighters to make communication very easy. This can give Pakistan ability to mobilize in the region and keep superiority over the Pakistan Air Space. Although it will be very tough to counter Phalcons, and Su-30s supported by ground array radars. But then Pakistan will be in the same position with F-16s, JF-17s, F-7s and couple others like Mirage ROSE all with the capability of data linking, supported by American and Vera long range radar to counter indegious Indian phased array radars which are still in development.

And we will sure get Vera long range radars until India makes their own.

1. India in the last year has already start linking all fighter aircrafts with Phalcon and it will be completed by early next year. This will act as a force multiplier.

2. India have already launched many spy satellites and is going to launch few more.

3. Su-30 mki also works as a mini awacs.

4. India is goint to launch 3 dedicated military communications satelite from this year.

5. The fibre optical smart cable networking is in progress, soon will be coimpleted.

So, as Air Chief has said India's strategy is to see 1st, see deeper, and act quickest.

So, by combinely using spy satellite, communication satellites, spy UAV's, Phalcon & Indian AWACS, safe & secure communications network Indian Air Force will be network centric. And These steps will act as force multiplier.
 
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Will the S-300/S-400 ABM systems that India possess (not sure abt S-400) be able to shoot the pak awacs deep inside their own territory ? since their range is around 400 Km's ?

Its not so easy to lock on and shoot at any air craft packed with one of the best self protection systems out their. If it was so easy to shoot down a military air craft with SAM full range then all you need to have is SAMs and SAMs taking fighter jets rolls. but it is not so easy as been said. answer to your question is simply no.
 
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Hi,

Yes you could try and shoot down the awacs---but then your missile batteries would be in the range of our weapons systems---your batteries have to come real close to the border to take a shot---you won't do it at the extreme end of their ranges.
 
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Owais..F-7PGs and Mirages have life in time highly unlike they would be retired in 2012 perhaps 2015..for F-7P maybe 2013..for 2012 looks like A-5s might be retired..
 
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