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How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

i doubt any of our enemies have the radars AWACS etc to detect BrahMos not really a problem

Both your enemies have high performing airborne AWACS and 3D Radars :D, you better do your research before making such a ridiculous claim. Dont doubt, actually do the research which you are not doing. AN/FPS-117 long range 3D radar, with YLC-2 long range 3D radar data linked with AWACS is a very credible radar network threat.

India, Russia work on hypersonic stealth cruise missile - Home » Other Sections » Breaking News

you are using mere logic to prove your point i have a link now bye bye unless you have anything else to say :)

How is this link even relevant, it does not address the fact that how Brahmos IR emissions are suppressed. Just calling it stealthy does not make it stealthy, there is lots of logic and physics that goes behind this and you are yet to post a single credible source that shows that this missile is stealthy.

You have officially proved that your a fanboy and dont know sh** about military matters, you are officially dismissed and added to the fanboy list. Keep living in your little bubble fanboy
 
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Both your enemies have high performing airborne AWACS and 3D Radars :D, you better do your research before making such a ridiculous claim. Dont doubt, actually do the research which you are not doing. AN/FPS-117 long range 3D radar, with YLC-2 long range 3D radar data linked with AWACS is a very credible radar network threat.



How is this link even relevant, it does not address the fact that how Brahmos IR emissions are suppressed. Just calling it stealthy does not make it stealthy, there is lots of logic and physics that goes behind this and you are yet to post a single credible source that shows that this missile is stealthy.

You have officially proved that your a fanboy and dont know sh** about military matters, you are officially dismissed and added to the fanboy list. Keep living in your little bubble fanboy

tell me what is the point of these radars when you have no kill vehicle to intercept the BrahMos

your views on IR emissions deal with logic not proof and your saying i don't know sht about military matters when you claim that the USA has not mastered ABM technology :lol:

cruise missiles use turbofans or ramjets yet apparently the IR signature is different just because you say so? take physics 101 goml
 
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The INDIAN BMD Program

Ballistic Missile System is being developed in two phases under a capability based deployment plan.

DRDO has developed and deploy a system for defense against missiles with less than 2,000 km range like Pakistan's Ghauri and Shaheen missiles.

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In the second phase, system capability will be upgraded to defend against missiles with ranges greater than 2,000 km that can additionally deploy decoys or maneuver.

The Phase 2 system will require longer range radars (Detection range of 1,500km as opposed to 600 km for Phase 1 radars), and new hypersonic interceptor missiles flying at Mach 6-7 (As opposed to Mach 4-5 for Phase 1 missiles) with agility and the capability to discriminate against ballistic missile defence counter measures.

“Our effort is to have interception at very high altitudes, and the entire system will be able to handle multiple, simultaneous attacks,” Saraswat said.

Indian BMD program has a two-tiered system namely Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) for high altitude interception and Advanced Air Defence (AAD) for lower altitude interception.

The PAD missiles are for intercepting ballistic missiles at altitudes between 50-80 km and the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile is for destroying them at heights ranging 15-30 km.



1. Akash Missile


Akash_missiles_India_02.jpg


Akash (Sanskrit: आकाश Ākāś "Sky") is India's medium range surface-to-air missile defense system developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Bharat Electronics Limited(BEL) as part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program.The missile can target aircraft up to 30 km away, at altitudes up to 18,000 m. Akash can be fired from both tracked and wheeled platforms.[8] Akash is said to be capable of both conventional and nuclear warheads, with a reported payload of 60 kg. A nuclear warhead could potentially give the missile the capability to destroy both aircraft and warheads from ballistic missiles. The missile battery is described as being able to track and attack several targets simultaneously.

An Akash battery comprises four 3D phased array radars and four launchers with three missiles each, all of which are interlinked. Each radar is able to track 16 targets simultaneously and control a launcher with 3 missiles. Hence it is reported to be able to detect 100 and track 64 targets and simultaneously attack any 8 of those targets at one time. The Akash system is comparable to the Patriot system, but unlike the Patriot, Akash is fully mobile and capable of protecting a moving convoy of vehicles. Like the Patriot, the Akash is really an air defence SAM which has been tested in a ballistic missile role. The system provides air defence missile coverage of 2,000 km².

As reported on June 11, 2010, Akash Mk-II version has begun development and will be ready for a first flight in 24 months. The Akash Mk-II will be a longer-range, faster and more accurate SAM. The missile will have an intercept range of 30-35 km and increase in the accuracy of the missile's guidance system and the fire control system.

STATUS : OPERATIONAL/ORDERED


2. Barak-8 /MR-SAM Program

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India and Israel agreed to jointly develop a new long range, land-based air defense system to replace the aging Pechora (SA-3 GOA) missiles currently in service with the Indian Air Force. Covering a range of 70 km, the new missile will almost double the range of the 60km vertically launched Barak 8 shipborne missile (also known as Barak NG) currently being developed for the Indian and Israeli Navies under a US$480 million five year program launched in early 2006.

The new missile system will be based on the medium-range naval air defense missile currently under development for the Indian and Israeli Navies. The naval application of the missile will be integrated with the MF-STAR phased array shipborne radar, which Elta claims to be superior to the SPY-1 AEGIS radar. Overall, the MF-STAR / Barak 8 combination is claimed to be superior to the leading US made systems such as AEGIS or Patriot PAC-3 missile systems

STATUS : UNDER DEVELOPMENT



3. S-300

s-300-truck.jpg


The S-300 is a series of Russian long range surface-to-air missile systems produced by NPO Almaz, all based on the initial S-300P version.

The S-300 system was developed to defend against aircraft and cruise missiles for the Soviet Air Defence Forces. Subsequent variations were developed to intercept ballistic missiles. The S-300 was jointly produced by Almaz with Samsung Group of South Korea since 1993.

The S-300 system was first deployed by the Soviet Union in 1979, designed for the air defense of large industrial and administrative facilities, military bases, and control of airspace against enemy strike aircraft.

The project-managing developer of the S-300 is Russian Almaz corporation (government owned, aka "KB-1") which is currently a part of "Almaz-Antei" Air Defense Concern. S-300 uses missiles developed by MKB "Fakel" design bureau (a separate government corporation, aka "OKB-2").

The S-300 is regarded as one of the most potent anti-aircraft missile systems currently fielded. Its radars have the ability to simultaneously track up to 100 targets while engaging up to 12. S-300 deployment time is five minutes. The S-300 missiles are sealed rounds and require no maintenance over their lifetime. An evolved version of the S-300 system is the S-400 (NATO reporting name SA-21), entering limited service in 2004.

STATUS : OPERATIONAL


4. S-125 Neva/Pechora

SA-3_EP_2006.JPG


The Isayev S-125 Neva/Pechora (Russian: С-125 "Нева"/"Печора", NATO reporting name SA-3 Goa) Soviet surface-to-air missile system was designed to complement the S-25 and S-75. It has a shorter effective range and lower engagement altitude than either of its predecessors and also flies slower, but due to its two-stage design it is more effective against more maneuverable targets.

It is also able to engage lower flying targets than the previous systems, and being more modern it is much more resistant to ECM than the S-75. The 5V24 (V-600) missiles reach around Mach 3 to 3.5 in flight, both stages powered by solid fuel rocket motors. The S-125, like the S-75, uses radio command guidance. The naval version of this system has the NATO reporting name SA-N-1 Goa and original designation M-1 Volna (Russian Волна – wave).

STATUS : OPERATIONAL



5. SPYDER SAM

LAND_SAM_SPYDER_SR-MR_lg.jpg
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The SPYDER (Surface-to-air PYthon and DERby) is an anti-aircraft missile system developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems (with use of Czech Tatra chassis) and using surface-to-air versions of the Python 5 and Derby missiles, also made by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems. It is a quick reaction medium range missile system. SPYDER is capable of engaging aircraft, helicopters, unmanned air vehicles, drones and precision-guided munitions. It provides air defence for fixed assets and for point and area defence for mobile forces in combat areas.
Aug 18/09: Indian Army’s QR-SAM. The Times of India reports that India’s Ministry of Defence has finally given the go-ahead for the army’s INR 40 billion (about $820 million) Quick-Reaction SAM program. These mobile missiles would protect Indian maneuver elements like armored columns and troop concentrations, as well as important areas and installations. The Army seeks to equip 3 regiments with this contract, which is over twice the size of the IAF’s 18 squadron purchase.

STATUS : Deployed

6. MBDA Maitri SAM

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The Maitri missile project is a next-generation Quick Reaction Surface-to-Air Missile (QRSAM) with a lethal hundred per cent kill probability. It is a short-range (15km,9.3mi) surface-to-air point defense missile system. It should not be confused with the similar Indian Army Low-Level Quick Reaction Missile system (LLQRM) requirement. The missile will fill the gap created by the Indian government's decision to wind up development of the Trishul point defense missile system. It is believed to be a blend of the French Mica and DRDO Trishul. Maitri will build on the work done by DRDO while developing the Trishul missile, using technology transfer from MBDA to fill the technological gaps that led to the failure of the Trishul project.
his is the programme that succeeds the defunct Trishul shipborne point-defence missile programme, and is a joint venture between DRDO and MBDA, with developmental feeds from the VL-MICA and Trishul programmes.

STATUS : UNDER DEVELOPMENT


FUTURE POSSIBILITIES/PLANNING


1. India is also planning to develop a laser based weapon system as part of its defense to intercept and destroy missiles soon after they are launched towards the country. DRDO's Air Defence Programme Director

V. K. Saraswat says its ideal to destroy a ballistic missile carrying nuclear or conventional warheads in its boost phase. Saraswat further added that it will take another 10–15 years for the premier defence research institute to make it usable on the ground.

2. India has been offered the deadly S-400 and Patriot SAMs.

3. India is Possibly developing MR SAM with Israel

4. India is also visualizing to develop s Land based SAM , Basd on the Successful Astra BVR Missile.

5. India Anti-satellite weapons could be developed as part of the Indian Ballistic Missile Defense Program, which will complete the development stage in totality by 2014.[14] India had identified development of ASAT weapons "for electronic or physical destruction of satellites in both LEO (2,000-km altitude above earth's surface) and the higher GEO-synchronous orbits" as a thrust area in its long-term integrated perspective plan (2012–2027).
 
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Can Indian BMD intercept BrahMos?

I know Pakistan doesn't have BrahMos, but just asking what would happen if China develops comparable technology?

Every offensive move has a counter defensive move and vice versa....... Thats how the science evolves........ If the Russians would've sat down with the making of B-52 then we would not have seen a B-1B and the B-2 spirit...... one of the master piece of Stealth and bomber technology....... In neqr future China would definitely develop something similar to brahmos hence we already have Akash mk II in line which would be capable of intercepting supersonic and hypersonic targets upto 50-60 km with speeds in excess of mach 5-6 upto a height of about 20-25 km...... The best part of the mk II sam would be very little increase in its size and weight and you be amazed to know that the cost of the project would be covered from the huge profits being made from mk I SAM deliveries...... The 1st test is expected by the latter half of next year.
 
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cruise missiles use turbofans or ramjets yet apparently the IR signature is different just because you say so? take physics 101 goml

The IR signature here is not from the engine exhaust, but friction heat from the missile body itself. The faster you go, the greater the friction IR signature.

In fact, the biggest hurdle the US faces with hypersonic missiles is not the engine technology but finding materials for the missile skin that can withstand the friction heat.
 
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I don't understand how notorious would detect an infrared signature emmiting target with a microwave radar....... And notorious the temperature of skin would be way over 50degrees.
 
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The IR signature here is not from the engine exhaust, but friction heat from the missile body itself. The faster you go, the greater the friction IR signature.

In fact, the biggest hurdle the US faces with hypersonic missiles is not the engine technology but finding materials for the missile skin that can withstand the friction heat.

The design of brahmos allows it to have low RCS profile...... And about the Infrared part it would be very less to that of a Mig 25 foxbat........ However the main point here is speed and maneuvers...... The missile will fly low hence one would not be able to detect it early only if airborne survailance of enemy air space was available....... Even after detection it would be interesting what missiles Pakistan has to intercept brahmos ?
 
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Can you stop spreading lies, calling it stealthy does not make it stealthy, the physics behind it does not advocate what you are stating.
How is this stealthy

Babur-10.jpgd7f81587-5c89-4b40-b2cc-a4a336df6a97Larger.jpg


and this not

brahmos.jpg


At 3 times the speed of sound the skin temperature would be approximately around 50 degrees, if the missile is skimming low the temperature of the skin will be even more higher as the missile passes through dense air and the hot engine exhaust will appreciate its IR even more factored in with other surrounding elements. At this altitude and speed, IR emissions will enhance significantly making it a magnet for a heat seeking missile. Brahmos from day one was designed to skid through enemy's defences by sheer speed and not stealth, for sheer speed it compromises on its stealth and manoeuvrability.

The temperature would be higher than 50 degrees.
The missile performs rolls to evenly distribute temperature on its skin.
Even on that note how would the Infrared sensors detect an incoming cruise missile which flies low and in quiet heated surrounding of lower altitudes ?

How So? The key to tracking this missile would be to detect its launch at an early stage. Your two main adversaries are fielding AWACS and Ground Radars(3D, 2D and Low Detection Radars) all data linked with each other, you can be sure as hell that this missile will be long detected as soon as it is launched with its high IR emissions. Fighter jets equipped with electro optic sensors can track and cue missiles for a successful intercept of the incoming skimming missile.

How can a heat emitting body be detected by a microwave emitter ??
What kind of Physics applies here please do tell.... or does the laws of Physics changes for a Pakistani Radar ?
And how would the fighter jets intercept such a missile in 1st place which flies at around Mach 3.... I am yet to know if SR-71 and Mig 25 foxbats were ever intercepted by any fighter jets at their top speeds of Mach 3.... even though they flew higher and were easy to detect from long ranges.... besides being a lot bigger.
 
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The INDIAN BMD Program


7. Trishul

defence_trishul_20030630.jpg


Trishul (Sanskrit त्रिशूल meaning trident) is the name of a short range surface-to-air missile developed by India as a part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Program. It has a range of 9 km and is fitted with a 5.5 kg warhead. Designed to be used against low-level (sea skimming) targets at short range, the system has been developed to defend naval vessels against missiles and also as a short range surface to air missile on land. Guidance consists of three different guiding beams, with the guidance handed over progressively to a narrower beam as the missile approaches the target.

According to reports, the range of the missile is 12 km and is fitted with a 15 kg warhead. The weight of the missile is 130 kg. The length of the missile is 3.1 m.[43]
brother shaitan plz delete trishul from the list as it is cancelled project other wise pak trolls would start bashing us on Trishul as a failed project of us
 
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The design of brahmos allows it to have low RCS profile...... And about the Infrared part it would be very less to that of a Mig 25 foxbat........ However the main point here is speed and maneuvers...... The missile will fly low hence one would not be able to detect it early only if airborne survailance of enemy air space was available....... Even after detection it would be interesting what missiles Pakistan has to intercept brahmos ?

Air friction creates heat -- that's basic physics, doesn't matter how you design your missile. And that heat is radiated in all directions from every single square inch of the missile's body. I am sure there is furious research going on in the materials departments in major countries but no dice so far.

As for detecting it, US has satellites that can detect a house fire. Detecting BrahMos in flight is a piece-of-cake. There are not too many things on this planet that are super hot (enough to almost melt metal) and move at supersonic speeds.

Agreed that Pakistan doesn't have that technology but, if US has it, you can be sure China will develop it too.
 
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One thing, I like in Indian, they think and claim beyond their capabilities.This thing boost us and we increase our capabilities.:cool:
 
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Air friction creates heat -- that's basic physics, doesn't matter how you design your missile. And that heat is radiated in all directions from every single square inch of the missile's body. I am sure there is furious research going on in the materials departments in major countries but no dice so far.

Yes Heat is generated.... but the point here is is the heat generated enough to track the missile at long ranges ?? or at what point in the path of the missile the generated heat is enough to get it detected and at what point it is good enough to successfully track the missile.... yes the heat is radiated from every direction and every single inch but the surface which experiences more drag generates more heat in a case of air breathing non rocket motor missile.... there are measures employed to reduce the drag hence reduce the heat.... I don't know what is your point here ??

As for detecting it, US has satellites that can detect a house fire. Detecting BrahMos in flight is a piece-of-cake. There are not too many things on this planet that are super hot (enough to almost melt metal) and move at supersonic speeds.

Indian satellites can detect "you" sitting on your terrace.... forget about house fire.... here we are talking of a supersonic cruise missile which has ramjet propulsion and very small boost phase may be somehow launchers are detected and even boost phase is clipped but how can a satellite track such a small object which would be moving at mach 3.... there's a lot of difference in detecting and tracking.

Agreed that Pakistan doesn't have that technology but, if US has it, you can be sure China will develop it too.

Why should I be Sure that China would definitely develop it to ??.... does US give all its weapon system for China to develop... or does the godly logic of infinite resources apply here ??.... or Chinese are also gods and out of world people ??......
..... Even on that note what has Pakistan to do with any such development :lol:
 
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One thing, I like in Indian, they think and claim beyond their capabilities.This thing boost us and we increase our capabilities.:cool:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/130819-pakistani-ballistic-missiles-indigenous-content-development.html

We can see the increase lol.

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

One thing, I like in Indian, they think and claim beyond their capabilities.This thing boost us and we increase our capabilities.:cool:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/130819-pakistani-ballistic-missiles-indigenous-content-development.html

We can see the increase lol.
 
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Yes Heat is generated.... but the point here is is the heat generated enough to track the missile at long ranges ?? or at what point in the path of the missile the generated heat is enough to get it detected and at what point it is good enough to successfully track the missile.... yes the heat is radiated from every direction and every single inch but the surface which experiences more drag generates more heat in a case of air breathing non rocket motor missile.... there are measures employed to reduce the drag hence reduce the heat.... I don't know what is your point here ??

You cannot reduce the friction on the leading surfaces. They will generate heat no matter what you do, unless you develop special materials. And that heat is detected. It's got nothing to do with what the rocket breathes.

Indian satellites can detect "you" sitting on your terrace.... forget about house fire.... here we are talking of a supersonic cruise missile which has ramjet propulsion and very small boost phase may be somehow launchers are detected and even boost phase is clipped but how can a satellite track such a small object which would be moving at mach 3.... there's a lot of difference in detecting and tracking.

Leaving aside "Incredible Indian" satellites and coming back to reality, the fact is that the technology exists to detect this kind of extreme heat -- and when something like that is moving at mach anything, there's only one conclusion.

For countries with the requisite satellite technology, detecting BrahMos is a piece of cake.

Why should I be Sure that China would definitely develop it to ??.... does US give all its weapon system for China to develop... or does the godly logic of infinite resources apply here ??.... or Chinese are also gods and out of world people ??......

Chinese are smart with money. They have a track record of catching up with western technology.

..... Even on that note what has Pakistan to do with any such development :lol:

All we need is a linkup to Chinese satellite coverage of India.
 
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