India's Chandrayaan 3 Success: Can Pakistanis Explore Space?

[GreatHanWarrior]

Pakistanis are honest. Can Indians stop lying for a minute?

 

[FuturePAF]

Well you could but you’d need to kill whole lotta folks first including their offsprings, or watch their offsprings become pawns in the hands of the enemy

It’s a risk during a transition, but probably not as many people would try to rock the boat, especially if they have the opportunity to make money in a fast growing economy.

Sure there will be some that will try, and the e new government will have to be vigilant of any “old aristocracy” that feels they have been unduly sidelined.

 

[RiazHaq]

Back in the 1970s, Indian analysts argued that Pakistan could not develop nuclear weapons or missiles to deliver such weapons. Now I am hearing similar arguments from my Indian friends as to why Pakistanis can not compete in space.

Please read this report by a Delhi-based Indian think tank. Yogesh Joshi, the author of this report, is just as guilty of anti-Pakistan biases as the Indian intelligence agencies he criticizes:

Hubris, Biases, and Overlearning: A Historical Analysis of How India Missed Pakistan’s Nuclear Coup | ORF

India’s Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) under K Subrahmanyam confirmed that Pakistan was in possession of the centrifuge technology for uranium enrichment.

www.orfonline.org

Hubris, Biases, and Overlearning: A Historical Analysis of How India Missed Pakistan’s Nuclear Coup

YOGESH JOSHI

"Intelligence agencies are prone to exaggerate an adversary’s capabilities. Indian intelligence in the mid-1970s, meanwhile, severely underestimated Pakistan’s nuclear cunning. For a crucial part of those years, India could not identify AQ Khan’s clandestine nuclear activities to acquire Uranium enrichment technology. This brief names three reasons: hubris, biases, and overlearning from one’s experiences. For New Delhi, this is as much a part of Khan’s legacy as that of the nuclearisation of the subcontinent that Khan ultimately unraveled"

 

[VkdIndian]

Back in the 1970s, Indian analysts argued that Pakistan could not develop nuclear weapons or missiles to deliver such weapons.

Okkk. We accept that Paksitan has a clandestine space program and has been sending space missions covertly.

@RiazHaq, only you can create similies between as diverse fields as nuclear testing and space programs.

You never cease to amaze.

 

[epebble]

Firing missiles is one thing and delivering a payload into space another. Comparing, capability to launch a fire and forget missile to a successful space program, are laughable and childish.

Making satellites, develop technologies related to launch, controlling and monitoring, and many other associated technologies are beyond current Paksiatni capabilities.

Don’t make claims in thin air. If it was so easy, then, do it.

It is not easy but not impossible. It would need an infrastructure of word class university programs in science and engineering. If such an investment is made and excellence pursued relentlessly in spite of failures, I don't think it is impossible. Anything done by four countries can be done by the fifth. U.S. had virtually no space program when Sputnik was launched in 1957. But in 1969, men stepped on the moon. If Pakistan pursues it relentlessly with needed focus and dedication, they too can have a lander on moon in 12 years.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@RiazHaq

Brofessor sb,

Of course Pak can. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, Pak set up SUPARCO a year before the predecessor of ISRO, its first satellite a year before India's. In 1969, when NASA wanted gravity data for the moon landing for the Indian ocean region, it was SUPARCO which came to the rescue after ISRO expressed its inability. The talent and capability is therem it is just a question of putting resources on the job and a capable leadership.

Regards

 

[kmc_chacko]

It is not easy but not impossible. It would need an infrastructure of word class university programs in science and engineering. If such an investment is made and excellence pursued relentlessly in spite of failures, I don't think it is impossible. Anything done by four countries can be done by the fifth. U.S. had virtually no space program when Sputnik was launched in 1957. But in 1969, men stepped on the moon. If Pakistan pursues it relentlessly with needed focus and dedication, they too can have a lander on moon in 12 years.

You are missing a main part US had i.e., $$$$$ which Pakistan presently short of, secondly in 60s US diverted its entire economic might and military power for Lunar Missions which Pakistan never afford to.

Yes, Pakistan can achieve what India achieved now, but for that they need a visionary eye through which they can see space. i.e., first, they will have to appoint a capable scientist to lead their SUPARCO.

 

[VkdIndian]

If Pakistan pursues it relentlessly with needed focus and dedication, they too can have a lander on moon in 12 years.

There is no doubt about that. So many nations have done it in the past after starting from scratch.

The issue is, about our dear friend @RiazHaq concocting a new theory and analysis with every thread of his. In these Paksiatn is invariably 10 steps ahead and India 10 steps behind.

All nations who have done well in space, were able to do so after decades of hard work. They faced multiple failures before success knocked on their doors. Some of them even had a very mature missile launch capability, even then they faced many hurdles.

A nation with a successful space program can switch over to developing missile capabilities very easily, not vice versa.

@RiazHaq is trying to belittle these efforts by drawing similes of vastly different fields of science. He is claiming nonexistent success in space program out of thin air.

Pakistan currently has nothing worthwhile to show. Starting SUPARCO before India is the only notable achievement so far.

The talent and capability is therem it is just a question of putting resources on the job and a capable leadership.

He doesn’t think so. He has already declared that

Missile program > Space program.

 

[epebble]

You are missing a main part US had i.e., $$$$$ which Pakistan presently short of, secondly in 60s US diverted its entire economic might and military power for Lunar Missions which Pakistan never afford to.

Yes, Pakistan can achieve what India achieved now, but for that they need a visionary eye through which they can see space. i.e., first, they will have to appoint a capable scientist to lead their SUPARCO.

The question was possibility, not probability. Even there, Pakistan had fiscal problems in 1970's onwards when they relentlessly pursued nuclear and missile programs. If they really put their mind to it, they can do something similar with a lunar lander program. North Korea keeps launching sophisticated missiles. Nothing to prevent Pakistan from similarly pursuing a space program.

 

[Puffin]

North Korea keeps launching sophisticated missiles. Nothing to prevent Pakistan from similarly pursuing a space program.

But several failed attempts at launching a satellite

 

[Jaeger]

Back in the 1970s, Indian analysts argued that Pakistan could not develop nuclear weapons or missiles to deliver such weapons. Now I am hearing similar arguments from my Indian friends as to why Pakistanis can not compete in space.

Please read this report by a Delhi-based Indian think tank. Yogesh Joshi, the author of this report, is just as guilty of anti-Pakistan biases as the Indian intelligence agencies he criticizes:

Hubris, Biases, and Overlearning: A Historical Analysis of How India Missed Pakistan’s Nuclear Coup | ORF

India’s Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) under K Subrahmanyam confirmed that Pakistan was in possession of the centrifuge technology for uranium enrichment.

www.orfonline.org

Hubris, Biases, and Overlearning: A Historical Analysis of How India Missed Pakistan’s Nuclear Coup

YOGESH JOSHI

"Intelligence agencies are prone to exaggerate an adversary’s capabilities. Indian intelligence in the mid-1970s, meanwhile, severely underestimated Pakistan’s nuclear cunning. For a crucial part of those years, India could not identify AQ Khan’s clandestine nuclear activities to acquire Uranium enrichment technology. This brief names three reasons: hubris, biases, and overlearning from one’s experiences. For New Delhi, this is as much a part of Khan’s legacy as that of the nuclearisation of the subcontinent that Khan ultimately unraveled"

Sure Pakistan can have a successful space programme.

It is not an exaggeration, when the entire world know about how Pakistanis developed nukes and its delivery system.

Pakistan just has to use its age old adage of 'beg, borrow, steal' for its space programme just as it used it for it nuclear programme.

Uranium enrichment centrifuge designs stolen from Holland by AQ khan.

Atomic weapons design borrowed from China.

Nuclear missiles bartered from North Korea and China. (Ghauri, Abdali, Babur)

And voila Pakistan will have a successful space programme.

 

[epebble]

Pakistan just has to use its age old adage of 'beg, borrow, steal' for its space programme just as it used it for it nuclear programme.

Funny you mention it. Do you know the history of U.S. and U.S.S.R. Space programs?

Operation Paperclip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

German influence on the Soviet space program - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Particularly

Operation Osoaviakhim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Puffin]

 

[Nasr]

SUPARCO, like other so-called State Institutions are beacons of nepotism, corruption, ineptness and Jahils.

 

[nahtanbob]

Pakistan's Shaheen 3:

Pakistan has successfully tested Shaheen III ballistic missile. It is a medium-range ballistic missile with a maximum flight altitude of 692 kilometers. The Kármán line, the boundary between Earth's atmosphere and outer space, is located at an altitude of 62 miles (100 kilometers) above sea level. Shaheen 3 can strike targets up to 2,750 kilometers away. Its multi-stage solid-fuel technology can also be used to launch satellites into space. It has been jointly developed by the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (NESCOM) and the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO). It's the latest example of dual-use technology.

Shaheen-III is the latest in the series of the indigenously produced Shaheen-I and Shaheen-II, which had shorter ranges. Since the technology used in satellite launch vehicles (SLV) is virtually identical to that used in a ballistic missile, Shaheen 3, the latest enhancement to the Shaheen series of missiles, is expected to boost Pakistan's space program as well. The United States and the Soviet Union used their military missiles in the space race. More recently, several nations, including India and Israel, have used the same rocket motors for both ballistic missiles and satellite launch vehicles (SLVs). Israel's Shavit SLV and India's SLV-3 are examples of it.

Space Defense:

For its defense, Pakistan has non-kinetic anti-satellite (ASAT) options, including: Jamming, Spoofing, Meaconing, Laser, High-powered microwave attacks. Pakistan has to prepare itself for the possibility of India using its kinetic capabilities to threaten Pakistan militarily by attacking its six satellites currently in space, including the Pakistan Remote Sensing Satellite (PRSS). India has already demonstrated it in 2019 by destroying its own satellite with an anti-satellite missile system (ASAT). The debris from the destroyed satellite still circulates in orbit. More than 50 pieces of debris remain in space, posing a small but potential threat to other spacecraft.

The real problem is whether the Pakistani army has performed well in real life. They are still fighting an endless war in the Northwest of their country. They are profoundly incompetent in their selection of civilian leaders. They were sleeping at the wheel when India went from economic insolvency in the 1990s to the current situation.