How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[DrSomnath999]

1. Boost phase interception by an ABM is very difficult because of some reasons...

a. Short range.The interceptor missile has to be very close to the launch point of the hostile BM.Currently only Aegis has a possible boost-phase capability, but—in the case of the SM-2—it needs to be within 40 km of a launch point.So the Shaheen and Ghauri series can be launched even from Baluchistan.
b. Very less time.Boost-phase interception gives a time window of less than a minute in case of majority missiles of Pakistan (including Abdali,Ghaznavi,Shaheen-I).

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The real threat which could cause considerable damage to Pakistani BMs is the Indian land-based Laser defense system (say,a bigger version of THEL) in phase-2 of the Indian BMD...It could damage BMs in their Boost phase.

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i cant understand ur logic man ,one hand u r saying Boost phase interception by an ABM is very difficult as the interceptor missile has to be very close to the launch point of the hostile Short range BMs, the Shaheen and Ghauri series can be launched even from Baluchistan.& on the other hand u r saying a land-based Laser defense system (bigger version of THEL) damage BMs in their Boost phase.How can that be possible ,as laser range cannot be so much & also cannot be so accurate from such a long range .
Yes air borne laser can do damage in boost phase,but land based cannot do damage at BMs in boost phase at very long range .It's highly impractical

 

[zaixiatian]

This is difficult work, but I believe there is always a solution to the

 

[The Deterrent]

i cant understand ur logic man ,one hand u r saying Boost phase interception by an ABM is very difficult as the interceptor missile has to be very close to the launch point of the hostile Short range BMs, the Shaheen and Ghauri series can be launched even from Baluchistan.& on the other hand u r saying a land-based Laser defense system (bigger version of THEL) damage BMs in their Boost phase.How can that be possible ,as laser range cannot be so much & also cannot be so accurate from such a long range .
Yes air borne laser can do damage in boost phase,but land based cannot do damage at BMs in boost phase at very long range .It's highly impractical

Actually,you are right...

Ground based lasers might help to a range of 100km...that is better than Boost-phase interceptor missile (40km).Now,missiles like Abdali,Ghaznavi etc might face a problem by them.

I have a confusion.Will the Indian Ground-based Laser (in phase-2 of BMD development) target BMs in boost-phase(after launch) or terminal phase( After re-entry)?

 

[ares]

i cant understand ur logic man ,one hand u r saying Boost phase interception by an ABM is very difficult as the interceptor missile has to be very close to the launch point of the hostile Short range BMs, the Shaheen and Ghauri series can be launched even from Baluchistan.& on the other hand u r saying a land-based Laser defense system (bigger version of THEL) damage BMs in their Boost phase.How can that be possible ,as laser range cannot be so much & also cannot be so accurate from such a long range .
Yes air borne laser can do damage in boost phase,but land based cannot do damage at BMs in boost phase at very long range .It's highly impractical

Woman and not man.

 

[The Deterrent]

Woman and not man.

???

 

[ares]

Aren't you a girl??

 

[The Deterrent]

Aren't you a girl??

Bloody Hell!

No...why did you presume that?

 

[DrSomnath999]

Bloody Hell!

No...why did you presume that?

just BECOZ ur name sounds feminine

 

[DrSomnath999]

Actually,you are right...



I have a confusion.Will the Indian Ground-based Laser (in phase-2 of BMD development) target BMs in boost-phase(after launch) or terminal phase( After re-entry)?

Ground-based Laser can do both but for boost phase they need to some how close to BM's launchers ,but for terminal phase range doesnt matter ,but difficulty is manuverable warhead can it can be intercepted by laser i doubt ?

 

[satishkumarcsc]

4 letters.......... MIRV!

 

[Cool_Soldier]

True, MIRV can create problem against ABM systems.But that can only be put on higher capable missile like Shahen2. Ghouri2 etc.
But Short range missile could be in danger zone if enemy,s ABM system is accurate and successful.

Pakistan needs to develop ABM too to counter enemy's missile strike.I personally hope, we are on the way to get that capability.

 

[deckingraj]

Thanks for the link...Let me reply to each point..

1. Boost phase interception by an ABM is very difficult because of some reasons...

a. Short range.The interceptor missile has to be very close to the launch point of the hostile BM.Currently only Aegis has a possible boost-phase capability, but—in the case of the SM-2—it needs to be within 40 km of a launch point.So the Shaheen and Ghauri series can be launched even from Baluchistan.
b. Very less time.Boost-phase interception gives a time window of less than a minute in case of majority missiles of Pakistan (including Abdali,Ghaznavi,Shaheen-I).

3. I'm getting your point.What I have understood after studying BMDs,is that they provide protection against hostile missiles in some particular scenarios.For example,a limited strike by a rogue state,accidental launches from enemy,limited strikes by rebels/terrorists etc.Another assurance they provide is the safety of strategic assets and major population/industrial centers.Now,this can be advantageous if the BMD capable country also holds the first strike option.So that they can take out majority nuclear assets in the first strike and the remaining can be intercepted.

But a professional Army realizes all these threats,and takes into account every possible way to over-whelm the enemy's defenses.Hence you are seeing more reliable missiles and tactical nuclear systems being developed by Pakistan.



Exactly....if a system is effective and reliable,only then a high amount can be invested in it.But there is a limited to that too.I hope India does not have unlimited defense budgets like Pentagon and DoD had.

Have a read.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-mi...ssile-defenses-effectiveness-reliability.html

1. Thanks for the info..However i never challenged that boost-phase interception is not difficult...All i said is that boost-phase is the most vulnerable point to intercept a missile...Also this part of R&D is second phase of our BMD system

3. Not let's paint your scenario once again...What as per you is the most important aspect of first strike??? To me it is "Surprise"....Now if you want to go for a first strike and also want to evade the BMD and on top of that want to ensure that enough Damage is done to the ememy then imagine the kind of preparation and number of missiles that need to be launched....In short probability of loosing the surprise increase manifold...Also the moment you loose the surprise what as per you will India do??? If i am convinced that Pak is going to lauch nuke frenzy at me why on this earth i will wait till havoc is unleashed on me??? In fact With BMD my side i will be more than ready to launch my own missiles once i have enough reasons to believe authorities in Pak are convinced to press the red button..no???

I am not challenging that professional army will not take things into accounts...However economics is one such factor that cannot be ruled out...Pak is going through a turbulent time whereas her arch rival is probably going through the best time of her 6 decades old life...Anyways these are all hypothesis...

 

[The Deterrent]

True, MIRV can create problem against ABM systems.But that can only be put on higher capable missile like Shahen2. Ghouri2 etc.
But Short range missile could be in danger zone if enemy,s ABM system is accurate and successful.

Pakistan needs to develop ABM too to counter enemy's missile strike.I personally hope, we are on the way to get that capability.

No...both Shaheen-II and Ghauri-II have a payload of 1000kg (excluding the weight of ReV and CMs)...The least number of RVs deployed is 3...

Both the payload capacity and the small diameter of the warhead hinder the emloyment of MIRVs on both missiles.Hence they carry single warheads.

Pakistan's ABM are a dream...unless we are ****** rich...

 

[The Deterrent]

Thanks for the link...Let me reply to each point..



1. Thanks for the info..However i never challenged that boost-phase interception is not difficult...All i said is that boost-phase is the most vulnerable point to intercept a missile...Also this part of R&D is second phase of our BMD system

3. Not let's paint your scenario once again...What as per you is the most important aspect of first strike??? To me it is "Surprise"....Now if you want to go for a first strike and also want to evade the BMD and on top of that want to ensure that enough Damage is done to the ememy then imagine the kind of preparation and number of missiles that need to be launched....In short probability of loosing the surprise increase manifold...Also the moment you loose the surprise what as per you will India do??? If i am convinced that Pak is going to lauch nuke frenzy at me why on this earth i will wait till havoc is unleashed on me??? In fact With BMD my side i will be more than ready to launch my own missiles once i have enough reasons to believe authorities in Pak are convinced to press the red button..no???

I am not challenging that professional army will not take things into accounts...However economics is one such factor that cannot be ruled out...Pak is going through a turbulent time whereas her arch rival is probably going through the best time of her 6 decades old life...Anyways these are all hypothesis...

1. Okay good...

3. Lets see...

The imporatnce of first strike is not only surprise but also greater numbers.In a second strike (retaliatory),the numbers are much less,hence the no. of surviving missiles decreases further after passing through the BMD.
But that depends on the efficiency and reliability of the BMD.In India's case, there are 6 batteries (48 missiles each) of S-300 SAMs,which are enough to counter Pakistan's Abdali and Ghaznavi missiles.The PAD/AAD (1st phase) isn't going to be deployed anytime before 2014 (that too,for New Dehli)...

Now here is the Pakistani case.Pakistan is not only increasing the number of already inducted missiles,but also upgrading them to the latest standards.Furthermore,the diversity of the Nuclear Delivery Systems is increasing each year.

I understand that it is close to impossible to hide such a large scale activity of escorted mobilization,given the fact the India possesses surveillance satellites.US will also not hesitate to "warn" India of such an activity.
You are talking about a pre-emptive strike.Clarify if it will be a conventional or nuclear one,according to you.


One one hand you say that if a weapon system ensures that it will provide protection to the country and will be efficient,then money must be spent on it.
On the other hand,you are saying that Pakistan has economic restraints,so it shouldn't.

Pakistan has been spending,and will continue to spend money on these strategic weapons,because at this low scale (BRBMs to IRBMs and CMs),they don't affect the budget much.Still,the current government has cut the budgets of our organization down.Thats why you see that the major development took place in the Musharraf Era.


And of course...all this is hypothesis and proposed situations...

 

[SBD-3]

True, MIRV can create problem against ABM systems.But that can only be put on higher capable missile like Shahen2. Ghouri2 etc.
But Short range missile could be in danger zone if enemy,s ABM system is accurate and successful.

Pakistan needs to develop ABM too to counter enemy's missile strike.I personally hope, we are on the way to get that capability.

As if.....just bring in a coverage of Long range High altitude sams.....S-300 should be fine.....create a network of these by joint Investment from PAF and PA...it would work both as AD/ABD...no need to reinvent the wheel...