How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[DARKY]

The imporatnce of first strike is not only surprise but also greater numbers.In a second strike (retaliatory),the numbers are much less,hence the no. of surviving missiles decreases further after passing through the BMD.
But that depends on the efficiency and reliability of the BMD.In India's case, there are 6 batteries (48 missiles each) of S-300 SAMs,which are enough to counter Pakistan's Abdali and Ghaznavi missiles.The PAD/AAD (1st phase) isn't going to be deployed anytime before 2014 (that too,for New Dehli)...

Now here is the Pakistani case.Pakistan is not only increasing the number of already inducted missiles,but also upgrading them to the latest standards.Furthermore,the diversity of the Nuclear Delivery Systems is increasing each year.

I understand that it is close to impossible to hide such a large scale activity of escorted mobilization,given the fact the India possesses surveillance satellites.US will also not hesitate to "warn" India of such an activity.
You are talking about a pre-emptive strike.Clarify if it will be a conventional or nuclear one,according to you.


One one hand you say that if a weapon system ensures that it will provide protection to the country and will be efficient,then money must be spent on it.
On the other hand,you are saying that Pakistan has economic restraints,so it shouldn't.

Pakistan has been spending,and will continue to spend money on these strategic weapons,because at this low scale (BRBMs to IRBMs and CMs),they don't affect the budget much.Still,the current government has cut the budgets of our organization down.Thats why you see that the major development took place in the Musharraf Era.


And of course...all this is hypothesis and proposed situations...

We are yet to see the updated versions of your BM.... you have not tested any long range BM in last 5 years I presume.... how can you update them???
And what are the new out of box developments.... Babur is still derived from Tomhawks thanks to the ones dumped by Uncle Sam in Afghanistan...... and China aswell......
Nasr is just an updated rocket with seekers..... which doesn't even has a range of more than 100km.....
Nither is PAF having long range strike aircrafts with deep penetration capability.

 

[SBD-3]

We are yet to see the updated versions of your BM.... you have not tested any long range BM in last 5 years I presume.... how can you update them???

There was a very long and indeed informative interview posted in the same section by santro a while ago featuring NESCOM cheif Dr Samar M Mand. According to information whenever a batch of missiles is manufactured, testing is done prior to handing it over to armed services....There has been a consistent upgrade process in place, Shaheen I has two Versions Shaheen I (I) and Shaheen I (II) before shaheen II. NESCOM alongwith AWC and other organizations, continously works on upgrading current designs.

And what are the new out of box developments.... Babur is still derived from Tomhawks thanks to the ones dumped by Uncle Sam in Afghanistan...... and China aswell......

Had it been the case and tech was a copy, then the resulting missile would have been of similar range where as babur is almost half the range of TH....China and Pakistan follow MCTR (though not signatories) thus there hasn't been a long range missile purchase of development exceeding 300 KM.

Nasr is just an updated rocket with seekers..... which doesn't even has a range of more than 100km.....
Nither is PAF having long range strike aircrafts with deep penetration capability.

It is a Tactical balistic missle....its small size ensures its shoot and scoot delivery while seekers (optical) ensure high kill probability...can you do that with blind rocket?.
The only place on this earth where people come up with such ignorent logics is of course Bharat BakBak forum...have you been reading over there?

 

[The Deterrent]

We are yet to see the updated versions of your BM.... you have not tested any long range BM in last 5 years I presume.... how can you update them???
.

Well thanks for shitting my post like that...I suppose you are not a regular follower of this section,otherwise you would have seen those upgrades...I'll post about them in a while.

And what are the new out of box developments.... Babur is still derived from Tomhawks thanks to the ones dumped by Uncle Sam in Afghanistan...... and China aswell......

Babur is only based on Tomahawk.Foreign experts have suggested that a cruise missile has a fragile structure,so it cannot survive a crash to an extent that any of its components can be recovered in intact form.I will not elaborate on it here further,as it will derail the thread.

Nasr is just an updated rocket with seekers..... which doesn't even has a range of more than 100km.....

Yes,Nasr is nothing more than a rocket with seekers and nose canards which help it to follow a depressed and irregular trajectory,powerful rocket motor and high payload capacity...obviously these "modifications" don't make a difference.
Then why the hell are Indians going frenzy about it?

 

[MilSpec]

ABM shield will not cover all of India .. just a few key installations and cities... rest is all going poof wherever either china or pakistan attacks ... the question is how effective retaliation will be served...

I hope both of the nations never have to fire missiles on each other... if they do.. the decision makers will be safe and sound and poor common people will die.

 

[DrSomnath999]

ABM shield will not cover all of India .. just a few key installations and cities... rest is all going poof wherever either china or pakistan attacks ... the question is how effective retaliation will be served...

many r saying this by reading some internet links , it is intial plan ,but by 2020 it range would cover 2/3rd of india

 

[SBD-3]

u hope that there is no repeat of 26/ 11 & hence no CSD fromindia & no nuclear attack from pakistan

Its quite surprising that Indian Media and Admin Machine had its guns at full burner against Pakistan but none has even cared to ask WHAT THE HEX WAS INDIAN INTEL AGENCIES DOING? even UK said that its MI6 warned Indian counterpart, but surprisingly no action was taken..even till date, no body has raised this question. Even in Samghota train, the truth was uncovered late and that too not by intel agencies but police...Still this does not ring any bells to GoI, anyways on topic, ABM is a fairly complex system, not even the US is confident in it till date, that too with far superior early warning net and more complex system in place, this points to the fact that for having an active system, Indian military would have to have huge investments in allied fields i.e. early warning nets. Thats why I think Pakistan should rather build a network of High altitude longrange SAMs backed by intermediate and low level ones. This should me much more economical rather than having an expensive venture for nothing

 

[DrSomnath999]

Its quite surprising that Indian Media and Admin Machine had its guns at full burner against Pakistan but none has even cared to ask WHAT THE HEX WAS INDIAN INTEL AGENCIES DOING? even UK said that its MI6 warned Indian counterpart, but surprisingly no action was taken..even till date, no body has raised this question. Even in Samghota train, the truth was uncovered late and that too not by intel agencies but police...Still this does not ring any bells to GoI

kindly leave that matter ,dont post ur opinion in this thread,post according to the thread ,i repiled that sentence but now i m going to delete it
REGARDS

 

[DrSomnath999]

Pakistani Missile Upgrades

execellent compilation bro well done
U should be recommended for think tank .If required i would bribe the administrator for u

 

[The Deterrent]

execellent compilation bro well done
U should be recommended for think tank .If required i would bribe the administrator for u

Na bhai,tu rehnay day...

 

[IND151]

Tell me who actually verify or discard the claims,If Indian organization claim it had a interception ratio of 99 %(exactly around 97 %)on which basis u discard it,by stating that no other country have it,if that is the criteria then ur missile test success rate is also questionable,since that are miles ahead then each and every nation in the world that dominate this technology.






1.Sheer numbers dont work here my friend,ABM is not designed to block each and every missile in ur inventory,its purpose is altogether different,it is only developed to gather a grace period,we will not wait untill Pakistan fire each and every missile in its inventory toward us,as soon as u launch ur first missile,we will also reciprocate from here,ABM is only there to provide the much needed extra time,now to overwhelm the defense system if u launch all ur missiles in a single attempt that is a differet scenario,but even then I dont think u have a single launcher for each and every missile u have in ur inventory.

2.I am not talking about S-300 here,u know,we had that even in the 90's,there is nothing new,I am talking about AAD and PDV which will be inducted by 2013,now If u thing an MIRV version will be available at Pakistan's disposal by that time thats a different matter.

3.Remember I am not talking about intercepting stones here,I am talking about BM,MaRV,chaff's,flares,all this are nothing new,MarV is not about changing trajectory,it just a gliding technique,ABM is designed keeping this in mind,once again the current ABM shield is a two tier network will be also coupled with S-300 and Akash

we have S 300? its new info for me. can you give me link?

 

[The Deterrent]

we have S 300? its new info for me. can you give me link?

India has 6 batteries of S-300PMU,each having 48 SAMs.

S-300PMU SA-10 GRUMBLE - Russia / Soviet Nuclear Forces

 

[IND151]

^^ wiki doesn't say so.

any other respected source?

 

[The Deterrent]

^^ wiki doesn't say so.

any other respected source?

First,wikipedia is not always the reliable source.

There were reports that India concluded a deal of $ 1 Billion for the procurement of the S-300 PMU missiles.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/29632-indian-missiles-news-discussions-60.html

But it is ambiguous,since there are no pictures available ,showing S-300 in Indian possession... The system has neither participated in any of the Indian weapons' display parades nor it has been showcased in any Indian defense exhibition.

 

[kaykay]

India has 6 batteries of S-300PMU,each having 48 SAMs.

S-300PMU SA-10 GRUMBLE - Russia / Soviet Nuclear Forces

Still this is just a speculation.....there is no credible evidence.

 

[The Deterrent]

NOTE:
The modifications/upgrades mentioned in the above article (post # 158) are based On pictures available of the missiles (describing their outer structure)and quotes from former Chairman NESCOM Dr. Samar Mubarakmand.

The described picture-based modifications are of the outer structure,which affects the missiles' aerodynamic performances.The modifications/upgrades made inside the missile (electronics/mission computers/guidance systems etc) are not known fully,and may be even of greater significance than the structural modifications.