Hitler's Speeches: Revisiting a Unique Phenomenon of History

[Cherokee]

@Desert Fox Iwould also like a separate thread on goebbels .

IMHO Hitler was no worse than stalin, churchill and many other contemporary leaders. Its just that he has been pained as demon so much (which he was) that others are forgotten . Hell Churchill is considered Pride of UK .

 

[Desert Fox]

I can't see why I would need 'care' to mention that since IT IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT IN RELATION TO THE QUESTION of whether or not Hitler/Nazi's started systematic killing prior to or during world war 2. For the complete morons among us, that means the question was not 'who invented the concentration camp'? You should 'care' to consider that as Dutch the Boerwars are part of our history (after all, the people into those Brits camps were the ' Boers', and 'boer' is the Dutch and Afrifaans word for farmer, which came to denote the descendants of the Dutch-speaking settlers of the eastern Cape frontier in South Africa) and so you don't need to attempt to 'educate' me there.

You're whole argument fell apart because you implied that Rohm and other SA conspirators execution was a murder, when in fact in any other country they would have faced a similar punishment for planning to purge the Armed Forces and government of that nation.

You then posted allied propaganda that the Nazis were euthanizing disabled people, when in fact Goebbels himself had a disability which he was born with and this was public knowledge and somehow the Nazis didn't euthanize their own "genetically inferior" propaganda minister (which your beloved allied propaganda fails to explain why).

And than you bring up German concentration camps before 1939. That doesn't prove anything except that Hitler had concentration camps just as the British did in South Africa and elsewhere in their colonies.

Now, if we are to compare Hitler's so called "crimes" in peace time to those of America's and her allies like the French genocide of Algerians, the napalm bombings of Vietnamese villages by America in peacetime (America never declared war on Vietnam or Cambodia), etc... then Hitler dwarfs in comparison, that's if we believe the fairytales which you accept as truth that Hitler murdered people before 1939.

 

[Penguin]

You then posted allied propaganda that the Nazis were euthanizing disabled people, when in fact Goebbels himself had a disability which he was born with and this was public knowledge and somehow the Nazis didn't euthanize their own "genetically inferior" propaganda minister (which your beloved allied propaganda fails to explain why).

“60,000 Reichsmarks is what this person suffering from a hereditary disease costs the People's community during his lifetime. Comrade, that is your money too. Read '[A] New People', the monthly magazine of the Bureau for Race Politics of the NSDAP”-

Nazi Euthanasia Program | Rutgers–Newark Colleges of Arts & Sciences

If there is no program then why is there e.g. Bishop von Galen’s Sermon (August 3, 1941) and Government Correspondence Regarding the Sermon and the Charges Raised against Galen as a Result (August 12-13, 1941) ?
http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/English82.pdf.

Here's a bit from the sermon

Excerpt from Bishop von Galen’s Sermon (August 3, 1941) [ . . . ] I am reliably informed that in hospitals and homes in the province of Westphalia lists are being prepared of inmates who are classified as "unproductive members of the national community" and are to be removed from these establishments and shortly thereafter killed. The first party of patients left the mental hospital at Marienthal, near Münster, in the course of this week. German men and women! Article 211 of the German Penal Code is still in force, in these terms: "Whoever kills a man of deliberate intent is guilty of murder and punishable with death." No doubt in order to protect those who kill with intent these poor men and women, members of our families, from this punishment laid down by law, the patients who have been selected for killing are removed from their home area to some distant place. Some illness or other is then given as the cause of death. Since the body is immediately cremated, the relatives and the criminal police are unable to establish whether the patient had in face been ill or what the cause of death actually was. I have been assured, however, that in the Ministry of the Interior and the office of the Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Conti, no secret is made of the fact that a large number of mentally ill persons in Germany have already been killed with intent and that this will continue.

Seriously

most of all Goebbels was a hypocrite. A serial adulterer and someone who, despite having an impairment himself, helped to found and lead a regime which persecuted disabled people on a scale not seen before or since.
From the moment the Nazis seized power they subjected Germans to constant anti-disability propaganda. For example, posters were produced depicting disabled people under the caption "deformed" while another asserted: "God cannot want the sick and ailing to reproduce". It is inconceivable that Goebbels, the Minister of Propaganda and the genius behind the Nazis' communication strategy, was unaware of these posters. There is no evidence that he spoke out against the Nazi policy of demonising disabled people as "inferior", "weak" and "unfit" to have children. He believed wholeheartedly in the Nazi concept of a "master race" and the need to maintain the "purity" of the gene pool.
During the 1930s, while Goebbels was in power, thousands of disabled people were compulsorily sterilised and doctors were given the legal right to carry out forced abortions of disabled foetuses.
Later he became one of the chief supporters of the T4 Program, the Nazis' plan to eradicate disabled people using poison gas, lethal injections or starvation.
By the time World War II was over, the Holocaust had killed not only six million Jews but also an estimated 200,000 disabled people.

Dangerous disabled people I

I guess the Germans didn't need that than either
Berlin memorial remembers Nazi euthanasia victims | Germany | DW.COM | 02.09.2014

Worth a read

Historian Götz Aly on Nazi Euthanasia Program and Inclusion Debate - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Historian Götz Aly: 'There Was No Resistance from the Left' - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[somebozo]

Hitler wasnt a mad man he has become in pop culture..Stalin and Churchill were far worst disgrace to humanity...many of Hitler theories about left-wing ruthless capitalism are very true when understood in the context of their time..some questions which remain unanswered are how did 1% Jews came to posses almost entire wealth of a broke and defaulted country?? As per Clinton library research Jews owned 14.5 Trillion USD worth of wealth in today equivalent...this is a hefty amount of money for less than 1% minority to posses...

Having worked closely with Palestinians and a Canadian Jew there is one thing I am definitely convinced off is duplicity of Palestinians and Jews as well as their lack of ethics while imposing themselves as morally superior...I find them similar because eventually it is the culture with is common between them regardless of different religions...

Palestinians are openly considered as least trust worthy...

HAHAHA, a mass murderer of millions. A racist to the very core, a monster whom consumed the world with his cabal, yet we are suppose to admire his oratory skills. Its amazing when south asians or asians in general try to praise this f*ckin piece of $hit, when Hitler considered them the lowest of the lowest. Please spare me this revisionist circus, history is full of apologists trying to make heroes out of absolute monsters.

Stalin and Churchill killed far more in peace time that Hitler in war time...

Americans ,Russians killed more people than Hitler. Russians & Chinese killed many more in name of ideology than Hitler's racism killings.... Great leaders gifted with admirable oratory skills. If you want to stay as ignorant, let it be.....

Hitler ruled Pakistan we would not have the problem of Mullahs, Terrorism and above all Indian meddling and Altafu mujra!

 

[Penguin]

You're whole argument fell apart because you implied that Rohm and other SA conspirators execution was a murder, when in fact in any other country they would have faced a similar punishment for planning to purge the Armed Forces and government of that nation.
.

Conspirators? Why do you think German historians today speak of sogenannter Röhm-Putsch ("so-called Röhm Putsch")? Röhm-Putsch is the term given to the event by the Nazi regime to describe the murders. The implication of the term is that the murders were necessary to prevent a coup. This was never proven however and was in fact a blatant lie. Most of the killings were carried out by the Schutzstaffel (SS) - the Nazi party's other paramilitary - and the Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei), the regime's secret police (which had been placed under SS control by this time). It provided a legal grounding for the Nazi regime, as the German courts and cabinet quickly swept aside centuries of legal prohibition against extra-judicial killing (which is what they were) to demonstrate their loyalty to the Nazi regime.

 

[Desert Fox]

Nazi Euthanasia Program | Rutgers–Newark Colleges of Arts & Sciences

If there is no program then why is there e.g. Bishop von Galen’s Sermon (August 3, 1941) and Government Correspondence Regarding the Sermon and the Charges Raised against Galen as a Result (August 12-13, 1941) ?
http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/English82.pdf.

Here's a bit from the sermon


Seriously

Dangerous disabled people I

I guess the Germans didn't need that than either
Berlin memorial remembers Nazi euthanasia victims | Germany | DW.COM | 02.09.2014

Worth a read

Historian Götz Aly on Nazi Euthanasia Program and Inclusion Debate - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Historian Götz Aly: 'There Was No Resistance from the Left' - SPIEGEL ONLINE

I don't think you even bother reading your own sources before posting them. Bishop von Galens speech was made in 1941, during war time. I never denied Nazis did some desperate things during war time.

You just proved my point Hitler wasn't killing anyone before 1939.

Conspirators? Why do you think German historians today speak of sogenannter Röhm-Putsch ("so-called Röhm Putsch")? Röhm-Putsch is the term given to the event by the Nazi regime to describe the murders. The implication of the term is that the murders were necessary to prevent a coup. This was never proven however and was in fact a blatant lie. Most of the killings were carried out by the Schutzstaffel (SS) - the Nazi party's other paramilitary - and the Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei), the regime's secret police (which had been placed under SS control by this time). It provided a legal grounding for the Nazi regime, as the German courts and cabinet quickly swept aside centuries of legal prohibition against extra-judicial killing (which is what they were) to demonstrate their loyalty to the Nazi regime.

Hitler's executions of Rohm and his accomplices was done in a more legal method than compared to how NATO Drone operators are the judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to dropping bombs on the civilians of a country whom they haven't even declared war on, violating numerous international laws on warfare.

Rohm was a conspirator who wanted to purge the Germany Armed Forces and cause instability within the state if his demands were not met. He would have faced a similar, if not worse, fate in any other country.

 

[deepak.chauhan2312]

He was a great leader no one can deny that. Not even a Jew.

great leader meaning?do you how many people were killed just because of his ambition.He bankrupt Germany .If he would have made a peaceful relation with world who knows Europe may be a single entity and Germany would be its richest state

 

[Penguin]

I don't think you even bother reading your own sources before posting them. Bishop von Galens speech was made in 1941, during war time. I never denied Nazis did some desperate things during war time.

You just proved my point Hitler wasn't killing anyone before 1939.


Hitler's executions of Rohm and his accomplices was done in a more legal method than compared to how NATO Drone operators are the judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to dropping bombs on the civilians of a country whom they haven't even declared war on, violating numerous international laws on warfare.

Rohm was a conspirator who wanted to purge the Germany Armed Forces and cause instability within the state if his demands were not met. He would have faced a similar, if not worse, fate in any other country.

More yadayada (and no , what I posted does not prove there was no killing pre war. That's your flawed reasoning playing up again.)

You didn't bother to read the official correspondence....

Some exerpts:

Division Chief — Propaganda Berlin,
12 August 1941
To the Reich Minister for Propaganda and Popular Enlightenment {<< yep, Dr. Goebbels]
Concerning: Catholic Action
....
[skip to page 4]
...
Measures taken by the state police against the bishop can hardly be successful, because in case of an arrest and judgment the bishop would be made a martyr by the Church, and other bishops and priest would repeat his claims anew. The most suitable measure would be the enlightenment of the population concerning our measures in reference to Euthanasia; I realized, however, that the present times are very unfit for that. The manner and the means by which the bishop prepared this action makes one fear that he will not relax with his attacks, unless we effect a fundamental change of attitude particularly in the Catholic population.
...
I beg the Reich Minister to decide whether or not the Fuehrer shall be asked by group leader Bormann whether the camouflage of Euthanasia thus far in practice ought to be modified so that a defense against the treasonable claims of the Bishop of Muenster can be inaugurated by launching a campaign of popular enlightenment. Heil Hitler! Enclosure

So you see, There is Euthenasia in practice, and it is camouflaged, and dr. Goebbels is fully aware of that.
Out the window goes you so-called argument that there couldn't be a program because Dr Goebbels was a cripple.

 

[Desert Fox]

More yadayada (and no , what I posted does not prove there was no killing pre war. That's your flawed reasoning playing up again.)

You didn't bother to read the official correspondence....

Some exerpts:

So you see, There is Euthenasia in practice, and it is camouflaged, and dr. Goebbels is fully aware of that.
Out the window goes you so-called argument that there couldn't be a program because Dr Goebbels was a cripple.

I just dismantled your entire original argument piece by piece and you're getting frustrated. You're only proving my point Hitler wasn't killing anyone before 1939 (which you earlier disputed).

Seems like many Democracies have legalized Euthanasia and "assisted" suicide:

Legality of euthanasia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ahh, right, Hitler's evil because he legalized euthanasia, oh but wait the Democracies have also legalized it! What does that imply?

 

[Penguin]

I just dismantled your entire original argument piece by piece and you're getting frustrated. You're only proving my point Hitler wasn't killing anyone before 1939 (which you earlier disputed).

Seems like many Democracies have legalized Euthanasia and "assisted" suicide:

Legality of euthanasia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ahh, right, Hitler's evil because he legalized euthanasia, oh but wait the Democracies have also legalized it! What does that imply?

The link you posted has no relevance in the context of the discussion (it merely shows you don't know the difference between 'voluntary' and 'forced')

You didn't dismantle anything (dream on ;-)

Repeatedly stating I'm proving your point doesn't make it so.

You know jack shit about history, and you show this time and time again.

Hitler's executions of Rohm and his accomplices was done in a more legal method than compared to how NATO Drone operators are the judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to dropping bombs on the civilians of a country whom they haven't even declared war on, violating numerous international laws on warfare.

Yet another attempted sidetracking.

Rohm was a conspirator who wanted to purge the Germany Armed Forces and cause instability within the state if his demands were not met. He would have faced a similar, if not worse, fate in any other country.

Rohm forgot his role was to be Hitlers minion. He got in Hitler's way. The SA purge started on 30 June 1934. However:

• Hitler had already begun preparing for the coming politico-military struggle. In February 1934, he told British diplomat Anthony Eden of his plan to reduce the SA by two-thirds and announced that the SA would be left with only a few minor military functions.
• On 11 April 1934, Hitler met with German military leaders on the ship Deutschland. Hitler informed them of Hindenburg's declining health and proposed the Reichswehr support him as Hindenburg's successor. In exchange, he offered to reduce the SA, suppress Röhm's ambitions and guarantee the Reichswehr would be Germany's only military force.
• In early June, defence minister Werner von Blomberg issued an ultimatum to Hitler from Hindenburg: unless Hitler took immediate steps to end the growing tension in Germany, Hindenburg would declare martial law and turn over control of the country to the army. Knowing such a step could forever deprive him of power, Hitler decided to carry out his pact with the Reichswehr to suppress the SA. This meant a showdown with Röhm. In Hitler's view, because the army was willing to submit, the SA constituted the only real remaining power centres in Germany that were independent of his National Socialist state.

Hitler put off doing away with Rohm to the very end. A political struggle within the party grew, with those close to Hitler, including Prussian premier Hermann Göring, Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, and Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, positioning themselves against Röhm.

• To isolate the latter, on 20 April 1934 Göring transferred control of the Prussian political police (Gestapo) to Himmler, who he believed could be counted on to move against Röhm.
• Himmler, Heydrich and Göring used Röhm's published anti-Hitler rhetoric to support the claim that the SA was plotting to overthrow Hitler.
• Himmler and his deputy Heydrich, chief of the SS Security Service (Sicherheitsdienst or SD), built up a dossier of fabricated evidence to suggest that Röhm had been paid twelve million marks by France to overthrow Hitler.
• Leading officers were shown falsified evidence on 24 June that Röhm planned to use the SA to launch a plot against the government. Reports of the SA threat were passed to Hitler.
• Meanwhile, Göring, Himmler, Heydrich and Viktor Lutze (at Hitler's direction) drew up lists of people inside and outside the SA marked for death.
• Himmler and Heydrich issued marching orders to the SS, while Sepp Dietrich went around showing army officers a purported SA execution list.

Röhm and several of his companions went on holiday at a resort. He didn't see it coming. Two days later he was dead.

In reality, these are documented historical facts. Documented prior to WW2. If you think not, what's the 'true story' according to you, or those you subscribe to? Please, do tell us.

Of course, I'm making all this up as I go along.....

Have a nice day!

 

[Desert Fox]

The link you posted has no relevance in the context of the discussion (it merely shows you don't know the difference between 'voluntary' and 'forced')

You didn't dismantle anything (dream on)

Repeatedly stating I'm proving your point doesn't make it so.

You know jack shit about history, and you show this time and time again.



Yet another attempted sidetracking.


Rohm forgot his role was to be Hitlers minion. He got in Hitler's way. The SA purge started on 30 June 1934. However:

• Hitler had already begun preparing for the coming politico-military struggle. In February 1934, he told British diplomat Anthony Eden of his plan to reduce the SA by two-thirds and announced that the SA would be left with only a few minor military functions.
• On 11 April 1934, Hitler met with German military leaders on the ship Deutschland. Hitler informed them of Hindenburg's declining health and proposed the Reichswehr support him as Hindenburg's successor. In exchange, he offered to reduce the SA, suppress Röhm's ambitions and guarantee the Reichswehr would be Germany's only military force.
• In early June, defence minister Werner von Blomberg issued an ultimatum to Hitler from Hindenburg: unless Hitler took immediate steps to end the growing tension in Germany, Hindenburg would declare martial law and turn over control of the country to the army. Knowing such a step could forever deprive him of power, Hitler decided to carry out his pact with the Reichswehr to suppress the SA. This meant a showdown with Röhm. In Hitler's view, because the army was willing to submit, the SA constituted the only real remaining power centres in Germany that were independent of his National Socialist state.

Hitler put off doing away with Rohm to the very end. A political struggle within the party grew, with those close to Hitler, including Prussian premier Hermann Göring, Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, and Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, positioning themselves against Röhm.

• To isolate the latter, on 20 April 1934 Göring transferred control of the Prussian political police (Gestapo) to Himmler, who he believed could be counted on to move against Röhm.
• Himmler, Heydrich and Göring used Röhm's published anti-Hitler rhetoric to support the claim that the SA was plotting to overthrow Hitler.
• Himmler and his deputy Heydrich, chief of the SS Security Service (Sicherheitsdienst or SD), built up a dossier of fabricated evidence to suggest that Röhm had been paid twelve million marks by France to overthrow Hitler.
• Leading officers were shown falsified evidence on 24 June that Röhm planned to use the SA to launch a plot against the government. Reports of the SA threat were passed to Hitler.
• Meanwhile, Göring, Himmler, Heydrich and Viktor Lutze (at Hitler's direction) drew up lists of people inside and outside the SA marked for death.
• Himmler and Heydrich issued marching orders to the SS, while Sepp Dietrich went around showing army officers a purported SA execution list.

Röhm and several of his companions went on holiday at a resort. He didn't see it coming. Two days later he was dead.

In reality, these are documented historical facts. Documented prior to WW2. If you think not, what's the 'true story' according to you, or those you subscribe to? Please, do tell us.

Of course, I'm making all this up as I go along.....

Have a nice day!

!). You proved my point with your own sources that Hitler wasn't killing anyone before 1939, and now you're trying to grasp at straws and getting personal out of frustration that your original argument was destroyed by me.

2). Rohm was executed for planning to purge the German Army and cause instability in the country.

3). There is no proof that Nazis were forcefully euthanizing before 1939.

4). And finally, Western Democracies top the list of countries that have legalized euthanasia, whether forced or not, that's up for debate.

 

[Penguin]

!). You proved my point with your own sources that Hitler wasn't killing anyone before 1939, and now you're trying to grasp at straws and getting personal out of frustration that your original argument was destroyed by me.

2). Rohm was executed for planning to purge the German Army and cause instability in the country.

3). There is no proof that Nazis were forcefully euthanizing before 1939.

4). And finally, Western Democracies top the list of countries that have legalized euthanasia, whether forced or not, that's up for debate.

Yeah sure, calling documented historical fact straws, that will work ;-)

I know for sure Rohm was summarily executed by SS (i.e. Nazi party paramilitary), not by German national army or German government. There was no trial, nothing. Normal government institutions were completely by passed. Name me the Eruopean countries where that was the norm at that time.

THere are reams and reams of proof nazi's forcully sterilized and euthenized mentally ill, severely physically handicapped (e.g. people with the desease MS). Forced sterilization in Germany was the forerunner of the systematic killing of the mentally ill and the handicapped. You stated there was no such program because Goebbels had a crooked foot: you are obviously wrong.

And only simpletons to not comprehend the difference between forced and voluntary euthenasia: your point 4 simply has nothing to do with the program in Germany we are discussing.

Please explain how it is relevant that the Netherlands since 2002 has a law called "Termination of Life on Request and Assisted Suicide (Review Procedures) Act" which states that euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide are not punishable if the attending physician acts in accordance with criteria of due care. These criteria concern the patient's request, the patient's suffering (unbearable and hopeless), the information provided to the patient, the absence of reasonable alternatives, consultation of another physician and the applied method of ending life. To demonstrate their compliance, the Act requires physicians to report euthanasia to a review committee. It legalizes euthanasia and physician assisted suicide in very specific cases, under very specific circumstances.
Euthanasia in the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is what one can choose to do for example if you have a terminal cancer and you reach a point (or know that you will soon reach that point) where you can no longer bare treatment which does nothing but prolong your suffering.

How is that relevant to the program of Hitler half a century ago? You're just blowing smoke.

Sleep tight sweety. Sweet dreams about your ego.

 

[Psychic]

You then posted allied propaganda that the Nazis were euthanizing disabled people, when in fact Goebbels himself had a disability which he was born with and this was public knowledge and somehow the Nazis didn't euthanize their own "genetically inferior" propaganda minister (which your beloved allied propaganda fails to explain why).

Nazi enforced Euthanasia may be a truth as they believed in other myths like "master race" and living space. Herr Goebbels was only a limp(not entirely crippled or dependent on others), euthanasia was for those who were dependent on others like blind or those who could not walk. The Nazis did many things which were a shame to humanity. The difference between Germans and some other countries is that the German nation is ashamed of what their nation did in WW2 whereas others celebrate their invasions and conquests in various forms (video games and movies). @levina

It is also high time to stop blaming "America and other European countries" for whatever wrongs there are in the world.

Sure they are saints.

 

[Penguin]

The difference between Germans and some other countries is that the German nation is ashamed of what their nation did in WW2 whereas others celebrate their invasions and conquests in various forms (video games and movies).

Valid point, although you might aks whether governments should be held responsible for the actions of commercial game developers and media corporation, some of which are to a greater or lesser extent foreign owned.

Sure they are saints.

Never said or suggested that. Just pointing out that always blaming a few nations for all evils in the world is actually weakening the selfimage and confidence. In that sense, it could also be considered insulting when you project that 'learned helplessness' onto others. Just something to consider. Improve the world, start with yourself.[/QUOTE]

 

[Levina]

... but the point is : you don't need to know my flag(s) for that statement to be true: it implies insult for any nation to be painted in a corner where the US (and whomever you may associate with it) is all determining, and the locals have no power whatsoever over their own destiny.

Look at Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, in which of these countries locals carried the clout to be able to stop America from turning their country into a war zone?
I wasnt insulting anyone, au contraire I was pointing at the fact that the populace these countries were sitting ducks when America attacked them.

Don't know if you've ever heard of Yehuda Bauer, a Czech born Israëli historian, but he phrased the 'lesson' of the 2nd WW nicely: “Thou shalt not be a victim, thou shalt not be a perpetrator, but, above all, thou shalt not be a bystander.”

Penguins live on Antarctica. Antarctica has no government and it is considered to be politically neutral. Several countries claim sovereignty in certain regions. While a few of these countries have mutually recognized each other's claims, the validity of these claims is not recognized universally.

Do you always joke with a straight face? lol