I will let Ronin study this in detail and respond. I trust his honesty and neutrality in responses.Indeed it is topic here. But you did not answer anything but singing hymns for India and defaming various freedom fighters., and keep provocation.
But this thing is going to be satisfactory.
যুদ্ধের দলিল নিয়ে ভারতে বিতর্ক
ভারতে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধের সময়কার অনেক গুরুত্বপূর্ণ দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলার খবর ফাঁস হওয়ার পর এ নিয়ে সেখানে রাজনৈতিক বিতর্ক শুরু হয়েছে ।
কেন এবং কিভাবে এসব দলিলপত্র ধ্বংস করা হয়েছে তা তদন্তের জন্য আজ ভারতের কয়েকটি রাজনৈতিক দল দাবী জানিয়েছে ।
বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে অংশগ্রহণকারীদের এক সম্বর্ধনার আয়োজন করতে গিয়ে সম্প্রতি জানা যায় যে ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় কমান্ডের কর্মকর্তারা এসব নথি ধবংস করে ফেলেছেন।
ক্ষমতাসীন কংগ্রেস এর এক মুখপাত্র আজ বিবিসিকে বলেছেন যে বাংলাদেশের যুদ্ধের গুরুত্বপূণ দলিল ধ্বংসের এই ঘটনায় তারা বিস্মিত।
কংগ্রেসের অন্যতম মুখপাত্র শাকিল আহমেদ বলেন, ১৯৭১ সালের যুদ্ধ ছিল ভারতীয় ইতিহাসের অত্যন্ত গুরুত্বপূর্ণ এক অধ্যায়। পাকিস্তানী বাহিনীর ৯০ হাজার সদস্য ঐ যুদ্ধে ভারতীয় বাহিনীর কাছে আত্মসমর্পন করে৻ এরকম আত্মসমর্পনের দ্বিতীয় কোন নজির সম্ভবত বিশ্বের ইতিহাসে নেই৻ তারপরও এরকম একটি ঘটনার ঐতিহাসিক দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলায় তারা বিস্মিত।
উল্লেখ্য এসব দলিলপত্র যখন ধ্বংস করা হয় তখন কংগ্রেসই ছিল ভারতের শাসন ক্ষমতায়।
ভারতের প্রধান বিরোধী দল বিজেপিও এই ঘটনায় বিস্ময় প্রকাশ করেছে এবং কিভাবে এরকম ঘটনা ঘটতে পারলো তার তদন্ত দাবী করেছে৻।বিজেপির একজন নেতা তথাগত রায় এর পেছনে কোন ষড়যন্ত্র থাকতে পারে বলে সন্দেহ প্রকাশ করেছেন।
ভারতের একটি কমিউনিষ্ট দল সিপিআইও এ ঘটনার নিন্দা করে বলেছে, দলিলপত্র ধ্বংস করা ঠিক হয়নি।
কোলকাতায় রাখা ছিল দলিলপত্র
বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে সময়কার এসব দলিল কলকাতায় ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তরে রাখা ছিল। যুদ্ধ শেষ হওয়ার পরপরই তা কুটি কুটি করে ছিঁড়ে ফেলা হয়।
৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ চলাকালীন পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় কমান্ডের চিফ অব স্টাফ লেফটেন্যান্ট জেনারেল জে এফ আর জ্যাকব একাত্তর সালের যুদ্ধের এসব অমূল্য দলিল নষ্ট করার বিষয়টি নিশ্চিত করেছেন।
জেনারেল জ্যাকব বিবিসি বাংলাকে বলেন যে ১৯৭৪ সালে তিনি যখন পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তরে প্রধান হিসেবে দায়িত্বভার গ্রহণ করেন সে সময় তিনি বাংলাদেশ যুদ্ধের বিভিন্ন দলিলপত্র দেখতে চেয়েছিলেন। কিন্তু, তখন তাঁকে জানানো হয় যে সেসব দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলা হয়েছে।
তবে কার নির্দেশে এসব দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলা হয়েছিলো সে সম্পর্কে তিনি কিছু জানাতে অপারগতা প্রকাশ করেন।
এসব দলিলাদি ধ্বংস করে ফেলার বিষয়টি এতো দিন তা গোপন রাখা হয়েছিল।
১৯৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অংশগ্রহণকারীদের জন্য সংবর্ধনার আয়োজন করতে গিয়ে কলকাতায় ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তরের কর্মকর্তারা দলিলাদি ধ্বংস করে ফেলার এই স্পর্শকাতর বিষয়টি জানতে পারেন।
বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিবাহিনীর বিভিন্ন শিবির কোথায় ছিল এবং অন্যান্য তথ্য-উপাত্ত সংগ্রহ করতে গিয়েই এ ব্যাপারটি প্রকাশিত হয়ে পড়ে।
বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিবাহিনী সম্পর্কে বিভিন্ন তথ্য জানতে গিয়ে পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তর দেখে এ সংক্রান্ত অনেক তথ্য অথবা দলিল, যেগুলো সংরক্ষিত থাকার কথা ছিল, সেগুলো নেই। এরপর দলিলগুলো খুঁজতে সর্বাত্মক উদ্যোগ নিলেও সেগুলো আর পাওয়া যায়নি।
Google translate -
Controversy in India over war documents
Political controversy has erupted in India after reports surfaced of the destruction of many important documents during the Bangladesh War of Independence.
Several political parties in India today demanded an investigation into why and how these documents were destroyed.
While organizing a reception for the participants in the Bangladesh War of Independence, it was recently learned that the documents were destroyed by the officers of the Eastern Command of the Indian Army.
A spokesman for the ruling Congress told the BBC today that it was "shocked" by the destruction of important documents in the Bangladesh war.
Shakil Ahmed, one of the spokespersons of the Congress, said the 1971 war was a very important chapter in Indian history. The 90,000 members of the Pakistani army আত্ম surrendering to the Indian forces in the war ৻ are perhaps the second instance of such surrender in the history of the world বিস yet they are amazed at the destruction of the historical record of such an event.
Note that when these documents were destroyed, the Congress was in power in India.
India's main opposition party, the BJP, has expressed surprise at the incident and called for an investigation into how it happened. A BJP leader has expressed suspicion that there may be a conspiracy behind the verdict.
The CPIO, a communist party in India, condemned the incident, saying it was not right to destroy the documents.
Documents were kept in Kolkata
These documents from the Bangladesh War of Independence were kept at the eastern headquarters of the Indian Army in Calcutta. As soon as the war was over, it was torn to pieces.
During the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971, the Chief of Staff of the Eastern Command, Lieutenant General JFR Jacob, confirmed the destruction of these invaluable documents of the 1971 war.
General Jacob told BBC Bangla that when he took over as head of the Eastern Headquarters in 1974, he wanted to see the various documents of the Bangladesh War. However, he was then informed that the documents had been destroyed.
However, he declined to say on whose orders the documents were destroyed.
The destruction of these documents had been kept secret for so long.
While organizing a reception for the participants in the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971, the officials of the Eastern Headquarters of the Indian Army in Calcutta came to know about the sensitive issue of destruction of documents.
The matter came to light when the various camps of the Bangladesh Liberation Army were located and other information was collected.
Going to the Eastern Headquarters to know various information about the Liberation Army of Bangladesh, there is not much information or documents in this regard which were supposed to be preserved. After that every effort was made to find the documents but they were not found.
Source -https://www.bbc.com/bengali/news/2010/05/100510_mh71documents
@Shorisrip , @Bilal9 , @Homo Sapiens , @leonblack08 , @Michael Corleone and other Bangladeshi brothers may be interested to to read it too!
@magra , if you know Bengali you will understand it very clearly. If not then only google translation is your friend.
History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)
- Thread starter VikingRaider
- Start date
I will let Ronin study this in detail and respond. I trust his honesty and neutrality in responses.
VikingRaider
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2018
- Messages
- 6,713
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
I can see you are deliberately trying to incite me by calling an Indian general as traitor. I wont fall for it and engage with you.
VikingRaider
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2018
- Messages
- 6,713
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Read my msg again lad , you always jump before reading the whole msg!
Cant seem to understand you uncle. Your English is greatRead my msg again lad , you always jump before reading the whole msg!
VikingRaider
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2018
- Messages
- 6,713
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
Exactly this is the reason I can not answer you and your Bangladeshi defender repeatedly with long essay ,as I am very bad in English . But this forum authority shall not allow me to launch a full scale debate in Bengali, and in English I can not continue a full scale debate due to my very poor English.Cant seem to understand you uncle. Your English is great
So in an international forum it's very easy to push me into a corner , that's why I tagged my Bangladeshi friends , who are very good at English.
SO surely you understand that my language limitation ( not the limitation of logic) is giving me the disadvantage. I hope you will forgive my limitation in English.
@magra
Last edited:
I forgive you uncle.Exactly this is the reason I can not answer you and your Bangladeshi defender repeatedly with long essay ,as I am very bad in English . But this forum authority shall not allow me to launch a full scale debate in Bengali, and in English I can not continue a full scale debate due to my very poor English.
So in an international forum it's very easy to push me into a corner , that's why I tagged my Bangladeshi friends , who are very good at English.
SO surely you understand that my language limitation ( not the limitation of logic) is giving me the disadvantage. I hope you will forgive my limitation in English.
@magra
Michael Corleone
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 10,313
- Reaction score
- -5
- Country
- Location
I remember the pic posted from back then but it was used to argue how it’s practically impossible to operate tanks in bd to which I whole heartedly disagree. Shiromoni is no tank friendly town
Michael Corleone
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 10,313
- Reaction score
- -5
- Country
- Location
Indians did many things off the book. I thought they kept the Mercedes s class niazi used... well they lost it and don’t have any documentation of its last known location... they suspect it could have been scrapped too. When inquired why the car was taken to india, the reason given was to fix something.... well if they are going to take a broken car from a war torn country why is it unbelievable for some to believe they looted many other things is beyond me.
a small example is why did we have to buy arms after the war for military when east pakistan already had good enough number in their armory for EBR and miscellaneous units (I think Punjab) who were stationed before or during the war?
You are guessing based on circumstances or one-off events. You are not providing any clear credible evidence of loot. Neither has BD govt or military (which I believe would have more knowledge than a common man in BD) ever raised this issue.
Michael Corleone
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2014
- Messages
- 10,313
- Reaction score
- -5
- Country
- Location
Can you account for where are the arms Pakistan army, or mukti bahini surrendered, if india didn’t take them I would retract what I said.
This question should be directed to your govt / military. Why do you think they never raised this point?
Bilal9
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2014
- Messages
- 26,569
- Reaction score
- 9
- Country
- Location
Well we have come to a point where we now discover some of us Bangladeshi citizens posting in PDF not only possess strong opinions but strong love for Indian Govt.
We always had this. Some Bangladeshi folks just love to love India simply because they don't possess an independent mindset or backbone and love to tow someone else's culture. Or rationalize it under some strange pretext. This has always seemed to be anathema to me, this self hate among some Bangladeshi Muslims, trying to ape India's majoritarian Hindu culture.
And regarding Indian influence in Bangladesh,
www.yourcommonwealth.org
To the "India-lovers" among us "supposed" Bangladeshis (I have no way to verify either way) I say this - the very patriotism one claims as a Bangladeshi national, becomes completely moot when one tries to support the INTERESTS of Indian govt. under the guise of "objectivity".
If a Bangladeshi tries to whitewash obvious Indian Govt. wrongs (in 1971 or after), the results for me, are the same.
In other countries (even India itself), such people are called "Deshdrohi". We in Bangladesh rationalize it instead.
Time has come to reconsider this line of thinking.
Everything Indian Govt. ever does or ever did (overtly and covertly controlling Bangladesh policy to de-fund independent Bangladeshi cultural movies, drama and bringing in Indian actors, cultural influencers using their local proxies, e,g,, popularize Hindi language, dialog, movies, songs, clothes among women and children) is geared toward keeping Bangladesh completely dependent on Indian culture, thoughts and products.
If one supports Indian hegemony initiatives in Bangladesh as a Bangladeshi, then one can no longer be considered Bangladeshi in my book. As simple and plain as that. One needs to look in the mirror...
Even South Indians have better self respect for themselves and their own culture (opposed to Hindi culture invasion) than we Bangladeshis do, and they are Indian citizens, not citizens of a separate country like us.
If one was born in Bangladesh, bred in Bangladesh, gained one's education and livelihood in Bangladesh, and calls oneself a "Bangladeshi", but has in one's mouth the taste of Indian boots - I do NOT consider that an honorable trait.
Insulting another member is considered cause for a ban. Please don't use Gali or call people names. @waz bhai I will leave this to your discretion.
AFAIK - Zia was not killed in a heli crash. It was in a C-130. But I will let others correct me if I'm wrong.
I expect that you will not deny something (which is as well known and ubiquitous in Bangladesh as the air we breathe). You can believe what you like, I could care less.
Since you were given the privilege (not a right) to post in PDF, I hope you will be responsible enough to use that privilege with moderation and not a disrespectful attitude, just because it does not suit your agenda. That privilege can be taken away, so use caution when you post in a disrespectful manner.
We can all have our opinions, but be careful insulting people or their opinions.
See above. I will not honor that statement with any answers. You have much to learn on the use of language to convey thoughts. Respect begets respect.
I have always treated you with kindness and respect until this thread. And you have treated me so far mostly with derision and disrespect. Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and it goes to their head.
Lastly - do all of us have to love India? Is having our independence in all spheres, be it political, social and military, a crime? Do all of us in Bangladesh have to become India lovers just because some are??
For me - if someone loves India so much, they can go to India and leave us alone. Be happy and stay there.
You live in Bangladesh, you don't see how negatively Bangladeshis react to Indian involvement in ANYTHING? Are you weaving stories in thin air?
Even the US state Dept. knows this.
2009-2017.state.gov
" Bangladesh’s foreign and domestic policies are heavily influenced by the region’s major powers, particularly India."
The very govt. in whose hands these decisions lie - is controlled by Indian whims. Enough said.
India makes sure Bangladesh govt. does not encourage local hospital or medical institutes don't get the policy support they need. We have known this for fifty years. Pakistan is not controlled by India, so they have homegrown medical care even better than ours. Plain truth everyone can see.
Reconsider your Pavlovian reactions just when someone does not bat for India. @Destranator bhai your thoughts.
We always had this. Some Bangladeshi folks just love to love India simply because they don't possess an independent mindset or backbone and love to tow someone else's culture. Or rationalize it under some strange pretext. This has always seemed to be anathema to me, this self hate among some Bangladeshi Muslims, trying to ape India's majoritarian Hindu culture.
And regarding Indian influence in Bangladesh,
"Does Indian culture pose a threat to Bangladesh?" | YourCommonwealth
www.yourcommonwealth.org
To the "India-lovers" among us "supposed" Bangladeshis (I have no way to verify either way) I say this - the very patriotism one claims as a Bangladeshi national, becomes completely moot when one tries to support the INTERESTS of Indian govt. under the guise of "objectivity".
If a Bangladeshi tries to whitewash obvious Indian Govt. wrongs (in 1971 or after), the results for me, are the same.
In other countries (even India itself), such people are called "Deshdrohi". We in Bangladesh rationalize it instead.
Time has come to reconsider this line of thinking.
Everything Indian Govt. ever does or ever did (overtly and covertly controlling Bangladesh policy to de-fund independent Bangladeshi cultural movies, drama and bringing in Indian actors, cultural influencers using their local proxies, e,g,, popularize Hindi language, dialog, movies, songs, clothes among women and children) is geared toward keeping Bangladesh completely dependent on Indian culture, thoughts and products.
If one supports Indian hegemony initiatives in Bangladesh as a Bangladeshi, then one can no longer be considered Bangladeshi in my book. As simple and plain as that. One needs to look in the mirror...
Even South Indians have better self respect for themselves and their own culture (opposed to Hindi culture invasion) than we Bangladeshis do, and they are Indian citizens, not citizens of a separate country like us.
If one was born in Bangladesh, bred in Bangladesh, gained one's education and livelihood in Bangladesh, and calls oneself a "Bangladeshi", but has in one's mouth the taste of Indian boots - I do NOT consider that an honorable trait.
So why is this RAM CHAGOL holding India accountable for this concert when it wasn't even involved?
Insulting another member is considered cause for a ban. Please don't use Gali or call people names. @waz bhai I will leave this to your discretion.
AFAIK - Zia was not killed in a heli crash. It was in a C-130. But I will let others correct me if I'm wrong.
I expect that you will not deny something (which is as well known and ubiquitous in Bangladesh as the air we breathe). You can believe what you like, I could care less.
Since you were given the privilege (not a right) to post in PDF, I hope you will be responsible enough to use that privilege with moderation and not a disrespectful attitude, just because it does not suit your agenda. That privilege can be taken away, so use caution when you post in a disrespectful manner.
We can all have our opinions, but be careful insulting people or their opinions.
See above. I will not honor that statement with any answers. You have much to learn on the use of language to convey thoughts. Respect begets respect.
I have always treated you with kindness and respect until this thread. And you have treated me so far mostly with derision and disrespect. Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and it goes to their head.
Lastly - do all of us have to love India? Is having our independence in all spheres, be it political, social and military, a crime? Do all of us in Bangladesh have to become India lovers just because some are??
For me - if someone loves India so much, they can go to India and leave us alone. Be happy and stay there.
You live in Bangladesh, you don't see how negatively Bangladeshis react to Indian involvement in ANYTHING? Are you weaving stories in thin air?
Even the US state Dept. knows this.
Chapter 2. Country Reports: South and Central Asia Overview
2009-2017.state.gov
" Bangladesh’s foreign and domestic policies are heavily influenced by the region’s major powers, particularly India."
The very govt. in whose hands these decisions lie - is controlled by Indian whims. Enough said.
India makes sure Bangladesh govt. does not encourage local hospital or medical institutes don't get the policy support they need. We have known this for fifty years. Pakistan is not controlled by India, so they have homegrown medical care even better than ours. Plain truth everyone can see.
Reconsider your Pavlovian reactions just when someone does not bat for India. @Destranator bhai your thoughts.
Last edited:
VikingRaider
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2018
- Messages
- 6,713
- Reaction score
- 3
- Country
- Location
The post was based on someone's analysis in a group al and unortunately the post is deleted.
But in order to keep the thread alive , I have posted another reference from a book of Barrister Moinul Islam. I hope this will be considered as stroger evidence.
Post #354 , and also a news from BBC where it clearly said that Indian army destroyed almost all documents of our libration war. Please take a look at post #375. Both posts has connection, as if India would not desytroy documents , we surely would get more numbers of concrete evidences.
Thanks and regards.
@LeGenD
Last edited:
Similar threads
