Hijacking faith: How an extremist Deobandi ideology rules the Barelvi major

[Zarvan]

mr i was born and was barelvi for many years but I do research and most things said and preached by so called wahabis are found in Quran and Sunnah

 

[Cheetah786]

mr i was born and was barelvi for many years but I do research and most things said and preached by so called wahabis are found in Quran and Sunnah

LOL Also known as brainwashed.

 

[Zarvan]

LOL Also known as brainwashed.

O mr bring proof from Quran and Sunnah I am allergic to your personal bullshi*

 

[Multani]

First Deoband Madrassa was established in 1866 in India. If we look at the history, Deoband is fairly new sect of Islam. Deoband sect slowly worked to make it stronger and they were very active during Pakistan movement. Jamat e Islami (India) had more of a Deoband influence rather than Barelvi. (That is why they openly opposed Mohammad Ali Jinnah due to his Shia credentials.) But both coexisted due to some similarities amongst them especially they both followed Imam Abu Hanifa in Fiqh.

Darul Uloom Deoband that is followed by Sipah Sahaba, Taliban, Ahl-e-Hadees and other ****** groups. Deoband came to lime light and also became a force to be reckon with in Pakistan with the advent of greatest evil this country had seen, General Mohammad Zia Ul Haq, who was also known in army circles as Butcher of Jordan.

General Zia in order to strengthen his grip on power used the Deoband mullahs. Whole Pakistan government was made to appear as one big Deoband institution. Due to Zia this deoband thought crept in army, one example is before Zia’s advent the Pakistan Army commandos used “Nara e Haidry — Ya Ali” as their morale booster but it was changed to “Allah Hoo Allah Hoo”.

During this time period of Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, US also saw the opportunity and gave its backing to this rag tag sect looking for money to establish themselves in Pakistani dominantly Barelvi society. US and Saudi petro dollars started flow freely in Pakistan. We saw madrassas appearing in every nook and corner of the street and mohallah. No one said any word against it. Our own Ahle Sunnat (Barelvi) kept quiet during this influx of the Deoband madrassas.

General Zia with his own wisdom formed armed wing of the Deoband sect by the name of Sipah-e-Sahibah. This armed wing purely directed its vengeance at Shia sect. During this time Shia-Sunni tensions grew to its dangerous heights. In reality this never was Shia-Sunni tension; it was always Deoband-Shia tensions.

Shia and Sunni have lived together for centuries without any major tensions. During all this time Sunni (Barelvi) ulema kept quiet to the persecution of Shias. Deobandi and Barelvi became so much intermingled that it was very hard to recognize who is who. I even cannot believe many educated people of good families when asked which sect do you belong to they would say Ahle sunnat (Hanfi) but when you go into details of their beliefs, they are purely Deoband beliefs.

While Madrassas of Barelvi and Shia were started in many cities too, but they were very few in number. Deobandi madrassas grew phenomenally with petro dollars of Saudi Arabia and our expats living in other countries.

General Zia’s advent and Soviet invasion of Afghanistan along with Iran’s revolution created a stir in the Middle East and Pakistan. The fear of Iranian revolution aka Shia revolution (1979) to creep into its bordering countries grew. Rulers in the Middle East and Pakistan used the Deoband strategy to ward off Shia influence from Iran. Barelvi did go along with the plan. Barelvi never questioned Zia for what he was doing to the basic fabric of the society.

Rest was taken care of by the huge madrassas in remote areas who along with short cut religious education concentrated on drawing a divide with rest of the sects and military ****** training. Simple people of villages got sucked into an extremist Deoband thought. This didn’t cause panic amongst Barelvi sect until very recently.

Barelvi always looked kindly to Deoband as their foot soldiers to tackle (the imaginary) Shia influence but in the end Deobandis turned against their own keepers.

With so many Deoband Madrassa educated moulvis working in and taking charge of Barelvi mosques in disguise created panic amongst Barelvis that their mosques are being hijacked. I know many cases in which there are disputes in courts amongst Barelvi and deoband people for control of mosques.

Deoband and Barelvi beliefs have mingled so much that it is tough for common people to differentiate and it is also difficult for ulema to take a clear stand of their beliefs.

Last night I was watching “50 Minutes” on Geo TV which was set up at Lahore’s Data Darbar. Amongst other guests there was a khateeb of Data Sahib Masjid; I assumed that he is Barelvi. He was describing something and he said Hazrat Ali (r.a.) and Hazrat Ameer Muawiya (r.a). While growing up in a small town, our Ahle sunnat Ulema never referred to Ameer Muaiwya as Hazrat and (r.a.) due to his disputes with and mutiny against Hazrat Ali (r.a), who is treated as a legitimate Guided Caliph by Ahl-e-Sunnat. It is purely a Deoband philosophy to call Muawiya and Yazeed as Hazrat and (r.a.).

At the moment, we are seeing the revival of Ahle Sunnat i.e Barelvi school of thought, and rightly so. But it has left many common people confused which way to go.

Barelvi sect will have a very tough time to ward off the Deoband extremist beliefs and have to further educate common people of the ideological and practical differences.

The constructions of madrassas and mosques should be put under some kind government control (possibly run by ulema of all sects). Now prominent intellectuals of Barelvi sect have started calling Maulana Shibli Nomani, Mauan Maudoodi, Dr Israr Ahmed and Dr Zakir Naik as scholars of Deoband sect who have infiltrated into mainstream Ahle Sunnat (Barelvi) population. Barelvis are now trying to distance themselves from the Deoband.

Barelvi ulemas have to realize that Deoband is much mor dangerous to their basic beliefs than their fear of Shia. Holy places like Ali Hajveri Data Sahib, Shah Shams Tabrez, Baba Fareed Gunj Bakhsh, Baba Buleh Shah, Shahbaz Qalandar, Bari Imam, and Bahauddin Zikria, Haq Bahu and many others are important and holy to both Shia and Sunni followers. It is Deoband who are against visiting the shrines of Allah’s holy people and consider it “Shirk”.

Deoband, Wahabi and Ahle Hadees follow similar thoughts they are born of Saudi patronage. King Saud demolished the holy shrines of Hazrat Fatima, Prophet’s wives Umhat-ul-Momineen and Prophet’s relatives in Jannat-ul-Baqee, and they are continuously destroying any place that has significance to Islam’s holy personalities.

The only reason Kaba and Masjid e Nabvi is still standing there is because it is a source of earning for Saud; otherwise according to their beliefs it is also shirk. If visiting a shrine is shirk (polytheism), then how come shrine of our beloved Prophet (pbuh) is still there among those people.
Hijacking a faith: How an extremist Deobandi ideology rules the Barelvi majority? – by Fawad Manzoor

This article is full of lies. Not only is it sectarian, but is totally unnecessary.

First Deoband Madrassa was established in 1866 in India. If we look at the history, Deoband is fairly new sect of Islam. Deoband sect slowly worked to make it stronger and they were very active during Pakistan movement. Jamat e Islami (India) had more of a Deoband influence rather than Barelvi. (That is why they openly opposed Mohammad Ali Jinnah due to his Shia credentials.) But both coexisted due to some similarities amongst them especially they both followed Imam Abu Hanifa in Fiqh.

Darul Uloom Deoband that is followed by Sipah Sahaba, Taliban, Ahl-e-Hadees and other ****** groups. Deoband came to lime light and also became a force to be reckon with in Pakistan with the advent of greatest evil this country had seen, General Mohammad Zia Ul Haq, who was also known in army circles as Butcher of Jordan.

General Zia in order to strengthen his grip on power used the Deoband mullahs. Whole Pakistan government was made to appear as one big Deoband institution. Due to Zia this deoband thought crept in army, one example is before Zia’s advent the Pakistan Army commandos used “Nara e Haidry — Ya Ali” as their morale booster but it was changed to “Allah Hoo Allah Hoo”.

During this time period of Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, US also saw the opportunity and gave its backing to this rag tag sect looking for money to establish themselves in Pakistani dominantly Barelvi society. US and Saudi petro dollars started flow freely in Pakistan. We saw madrassas appearing in every nook and corner of the street and mohallah. No one said any word against it. Our own Ahle Sunnat (Barelvi) kept quiet during this influx of the Deoband madrassas.

General Zia with his own wisdom formed armed wing of the Deoband sect by the name of Sipah-e-Sahibah. This armed wing purely directed its vengeance at Shia sect. During this time Shia-Sunni tensions grew to its dangerous heights. In reality this never was Shia-Sunni tension; it was always Deoband-Shia tensions.

Shia and Sunni have lived together for centuries without any major tensions. During all this time Sunni (Barelvi) ulema kept quiet to the persecution of Shias. Deobandi and Barelvi became so much intermingled that it was very hard to recognize who is who. I even cannot believe many educated people of good families when asked which sect do you belong to they would say Ahle sunnat (Hanfi) but when you go into details of their beliefs, they are purely Deoband beliefs.

While Madrassas of Barelvi and Shia were started in many cities too, but they were very few in number. Deobandi madrassas grew phenomenally with petro dollars of Saudi Arabia and our expats living in other countries.

General Zia’s advent and Soviet invasion of Afghanistan along with Iran’s revolution created a stir in the Middle East and Pakistan. The fear of Iranian revolution aka Shia revolution (1979) to creep into its bordering countries grew. Rulers in the Middle East and Pakistan used the Deoband strategy to ward off Shia influence from Iran. Barelvi did go along with the plan. Barelvi never questioned Zia for what he was doing to the basic fabric of the society.

Rest was taken care of by the huge madrassas in remote areas who along with short cut religious education concentrated on drawing a divide with rest of the sects and military ****** training. Simple people of villages got sucked into an extremist Deoband thought. This didn’t cause panic amongst Barelvi sect until very recently.

Barelvi always looked kindly to Deoband as their foot soldiers to tackle (the imaginary) Shia influence but in the end Deobandis turned against their own keepers.

With so many Deoband Madrassa educated moulvis working in and taking charge of Barelvi mosques in disguise created panic amongst Barelvis that their mosques are being hijacked. I know many cases in which there are disputes in courts amongst Barelvi and deoband people for control of mosques.

Deoband and Barelvi beliefs have mingled so much that it is tough for common people to differentiate and it is also difficult for ulema to take a clear stand of their beliefs.

Last night I was watching “50 Minutes” on Geo TV which was set up at Lahore’s Data Darbar. Amongst other guests there was a khateeb of Data Sahib Masjid; I assumed that he is Barelvi. He was describing something and he said Hazrat Ali (r.a.) and Hazrat Ameer Muawiya (r.a). While growing up in a small town, our Ahle sunnat Ulema never referred to Ameer Muaiwya as Hazrat and (r.a.) due to his disputes with and mutiny against Hazrat Ali (r.a), who is treated as a legitimate Guided Caliph by Ahl-e-Sunnat. It is purely a Deoband philosophy to call Muawiya and Yazeed as Hazrat and (r.a.).

At the moment, we are seeing the revival of Ahle Sunnat i.e Barelvi school of thought, and rightly so. But it has left many common people confused which way to go.

Barelvi sect will have a very tough time to ward off the Deoband extremist beliefs and have to further educate common people of the ideological and practical differences.

The constructions of madrassas and mosques should be put under some kind government control (possibly run by ulema of all sects). Now prominent intellectuals of Barelvi sect have started calling Maulana Shibli Nomani, Mauan Maudoodi, Dr Israr Ahmed and Dr Zakir Naik as scholars of Deoband sect who have infiltrated into mainstream Ahle Sunnat (Barelvi) population. Barelvis are now trying to distance themselves from the Deoband.

Barelvi ulemas have to realize that Deoband is much mor dangerous to their basic beliefs than their fear of Shia. Holy places like Ali Hajveri Data Sahib, Shah Shams Tabrez, Baba Fareed Gunj Bakhsh, Baba Buleh Shah, Shahbaz Qalandar, Bari Imam, and Bahauddin Zikria, Haq Bahu and many others are important and holy to both Shia and Sunni followers. It is Deoband who are against visiting the shrines of Allah’s holy people and consider it “Shirk”.

Deoband, Wahabi and Ahle Hadees follow similar thoughts they are born of Saudi patronage. King Saud demolished the holy shrines of Hazrat Fatima, Prophet’s wives Umhat-ul-Momineen and Prophet’s relatives in Jannat-ul-Baqee, and they are continuously destroying any place that has significance to Islam’s holy personalities.

The only reason Kaba and Masjid e Nabvi is still standing there is because it is a source of earning for Saud; otherwise according to their beliefs it is also shirk. If visiting a shrine is shirk (polytheism), then how come shrine of our beloved Prophet (pbuh) is still there among those people.
Hijacking a faith: How an extremist Deobandi ideology rules the Barelvi majority? – by Fawad Manzoor

This article is also trying to insult a Sahabi e Rasool, Hazrat Muawiya AS

Agreed that generally Bralvis also use (RA) with Hazrat Ameer Muavia. But the point is that of Yazeed. Traditional Sunnis (Brelvis) don't use RA with Yazeed or neither call him Hazrat Yazeed. I don't know about the reflections of deubandis on this but Ahle-Hadith use RA with Yazeed.

Brelvi-Ahl-e-Hadith ,Brelvi-Deubandi and Brelvi-Shia ideological conflicts have always been existing but even to date hardly any killings (except a few which too on individual levels) have taken place between the brelvis and other sects. In fact brlvis also took the wrath as the Melad procession in Nishtar park claimed 57 lives.

Nawaz sharif is a barelvi

 

[Multani]

Deobandi is basically the subcontinent name of wahabbi.

One just has to go to youtube and see various takfiri fatwas from deobandi mullahs to realize there isn't much difference. You can probably credit zia for this though but historically deobandis are more hardline.

That is correct

 

[Multani]

Not same thing there are many differences between both of them ... Deobandis are blind followers of Imam Abu Hanifa ... If Barelvis give up grave worships then you cannot see any difference between them ... Whereas Ahle Hadith emphasize on such Islam which has been revealed on Rasoolullah (Sallalah O Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) and quote each n everything from Quran & Sunnah ... You can say that Hanbali are more close with Ahle Hadith in faith than other sects ... And Wahabi sect is not on the earth ... This name has been given by rivals especially Shias & Barelvis ...............

Some knowledge for you patriot bhai.

It is Sahih Hadith of the Prophet salamullah elayh that no one in his ummah will do idol worship [ shirk e Akbar ]

when you accuse barelvis of grave worship, you are accusing the vast majority of Pakistanis of doing Shirk e Akbar. Do you know by accusing Muslims of Shirk e Akbar you are calling them non-Muslim. It is an accusation of Kufr.

That is why maududi saab is known as wahabi. He accused Muslims of grave worship. How can a Muslim worship anyone else other than Allah? After all Maududi Saab he is well respected by TTP.

Suf Muhammad Sawati of Swat TTP respects and loves Maududi Saab.

These are some random photos I found mostly from1952 loksabha elections in India.
This burqha looks familiar? this is the same used in Afghanistan?(Shuttlecock burqha). Deobandis:
First Lok Sabha General Election Scenes - Delhi, January 1952 - Part 1 - Old Indian Photos
scene from first loksabha election:

Muslim Pardahnishin women voters wait in a queue for their turn to cast their votes at a polling booth near Jama Masjid.

First Lok Sabha General Election Scenes - Delhi, January 1952 - Part 1 - Old Indian Photos

They look like typical indian sufi muslims

 

[Shahmir]

Such discussions should be banned on pdf.

 

[Cheetah786]

O mr bring proof from Qur'an and Sunnah. I am allergic to your personal bullshi*

Talking about Zarvans personal bullshit.

but I do research and most things said and preached by so called Wahhabi are found in Qur'an and Sunnah

 

[Vinod2070]

Deobandis are not a sect. This report is mischievous. Deoband has served marvelously to keep the Muslims alert and educated during the reign of Christian British and now under the Hindu Indians. Located in a Dar ul Harb, the service they have been rendering is commendable.

Any comment on tolerance of the dar up harb allowing this Islamic institute in a non Islamic country?

 

[Patriots]

Some knowledge for you patriot bhai.

It is Sahih Hadith of the Prophet salamullah elayh that no one in his ummah will do idol worship [ shirk e Akbar ]

when you accuse barelvis of grave worship, you are accusing the vast majority of Pakistanis of doing Shirk e Akbar. Do you know by accusing Muslims of Shirk e Akbar you are calling them non-Muslim. It is an accusation of Kufr.

I think you wanna quote below Hadith:

The hadeeth was narrated by al-Bukhaari (1344) and Muslim (2296) from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Amir, and says that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) came out one day and prayed for the people of Uhud as he used to pray for the dead. Then he went to the minbar and said: “I will be there ahead of you, and I will be your witness. By Allah, I can see my Cistern now. I am given the keys to the treasures of the earth, or the keys to the earth. By Allah, I do not fear that you will associate others with Allah after I am gone, but I fear that you will compete with one another for them (the treasures of the earth).”

There is nothing in the hadeeth to say that shirk (association of others with Allah) will not happen in this ummah; rather it may be understood that he did not fear it for the entire ummah … Based on the fact that it has occurred among some of them … As is indicated in other texts in which he (Sallalaho Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) stated that some of his ummah would fall into shirk.

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqallaani (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The words “I do not fear that you will associate others with Allah” mean: (I do not fear that you will do that) en masse, because that happened with some of them – may Allah protect us. This hadeeth is one of the miracles of the Prophet (Sallalaho Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam), hence the author narrated it under the heading of the signs of Prophethood. (End quote from Fath al-Baari, 3/211)

Secondly: The saheeh Sunnah indicates that among this ummah will be some who associate others with Allah, may He be exalted ………..

1. Al-Bukhaari (7116) and Muslim (2906) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Sallalaho Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) said: “The Hour will not begin until the backsides of the women of Daws wobble (as they go) around Dhu’l-Khalasah.”

Dhu’l-Khalasah was a false god of Daws that they used to worship during the Jaahiliyyah.

2. Muslim (2907) narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (Sallalaho Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) say: “Night and day will not cease until al-Laat and al-‘Uzza are worshipped.” Allah said: O Messenger of Allaah, when Allah revealed the words “He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad Sallalaho Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah and in His Messenger Muhammad Sallalaho Alaihe Wa Alaihi Wa Sallam) hate (it)” [al-Saff 61:33], I thought that that had been fulfilled and would never be undone. He said: “As much of that as Allah wills will happen, then Allah will send a pleasant wind which will cause everyone in whose heart is faith the size of a grain of mustard seed to die, then there will be left those in whom there is no good, and they will revert to the religion of their forefathers.”

It becomes clear that some of the Muslims will fall into shirk without that affecting the entire Ummah for it is protected against uniting in misguidance.

How can the Muslim doubt that calling upon the dead, beseeching them at times of calamity and asking them to relieve distress are acts of shirk..???? In fact this is the essence of what the earlier mushrikeen used to do seeking to draw close to Allah or seeking intercession with Him, as Allah says:

“And those who take Auliya (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.”

[az-Zumar 39:3]

“And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: ‘These are our intercessors with Allah.’ Say: ‘Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?’ Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!

Mankind were but one community (i.e. on one religion - Islamic Monotheism), then they differed (later), and had not it been for a Word that went forth before from your Lord, it would have been settled between them regarding what they differed”

[Yoonus 10:18, 19]

More than one of the scholars has clearly stated that what some of the ignorant Muslims do of focusing their devotion on graves is the essence of what the earlier mushrikeen used to do.

Ar-Raazi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on the verse from Surah Yoonus quoted above, explaining the explanations that the mushrikeen gave for their worship of idols:

Fourthly: they made these idols and statues in the image of their Prophets and great men, and claimed that if they devoted themselves to worshipping these statues, those great men would be intercessors for them with Allah, may He be exalted. The equivalent to that in our own times is the devotion of many people to venerating the graves of great men, in the belief that if they venerate their graves, they will intercede for them with Allah. (Mafaateeh al-Ghayb, 17/49)


And Allah knows best ………...

That is why maududi saab is known as wahabi. He accused Muslims of grave worship. How can a Muslim worship anyone else other than Allah? After all Maududi Saab he is well respected by TTP.

Suf Muhammad Sawati of Swat TTP respects and loves Maududi Saab.

Maulana Maudoodi was Hanafi close to Deobandi ... He doesn't belong to Salafis .............

 

[Chronos]

Talking about Zarvans personal bullshit.

Let him go Mr.Cheetah sir

he sounds so adorable when talk about cutting heads off Hindus

 

[Zarvan]

Talking about Zarvans personal bullshit.

Mr bring proof from Quran and Sunnah which you can't so keep on talking crap

 

[Zarvan]

i

Let him go Mr.Cheetah sir

he sounds so adorable when talk about cutting heads off Hindus

yes you find many invaders adorable too when they said the would attack you and soon they were playing with your heads

 

[Gunsnroses]

Such discussions should be banned on pdf.

Agreed.
This is not a religion forum. Light discussions should be allowed though. I see people copy/pasting things out of context or from the free pamphlet distributed outside the mosques.

 

[S.Bukhari]

Ahle-e-Hadith (Salafis in orignal) are the followers of Abdul Wahab Najadi. Whats more interesting is that the father and brother of Abdul Wahab Najadi (Shaikh Suleman and I forgot the other name) were traditional sunnis and remained so til their last. Moreover, most of us wouldn't know that Abdul Wahab Najadi was not a direct decedent from his spiritual leader Ibn-e-Taimia.
It was a subcontinental personality by the name of Muhammad Hayat Sindhi who met him in Madina and subsequently introduced him to the teachings of Ibn-e-Taimia.

More precisely recruited him for the cause of Defaming and amending the practices of Islam Abdul wahab najadi never went to any Madrassah to get any Islamic education .