High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows

[Basel]

After upgrade what will be their level when compared to UAE's M2K9s?

 

[ares]

After upgrade what will be their level when compared to UAE's M2K9s?

The same that is in b/w F-16 block 40/42 and F-16 Block 50/52.. UAE Mirage 2000-9 being the former and Indian Mirage 2000 H ( which are being upgraded to Mirage 2000-5 MK.2 standards) the later.

 

[Basel]

The same that is in b/w F-16 block 40/42 and F-16 Block 50/52.. UAE Mirage 2000-9 being the former and Indian Mirage 2000 H ( which are being upgraded to Mirage 2000-5 MK.2 standards) the later.

Please post more detail technical comparison of both.

 

[Viper0011.]

The overall upgrade programme of the Mirage-2000s is pegged at Rs 17,547 crore, with the first two fighters being upgraded in France and the rest (49) by HAL under transfer of technology.

NEW DELHI: Should India have simply gone in for new fighters rather than upgrading its 51 Mirage-2000s at an exorbitant cost? This question came to the fore once again on Monday with defence minister AK Antony telling Parliament that the upgrade cost for each jet was Rs 167 crore.

Isn't that coming to 3-4 Billion USD?? Phew, you could've bought about 50 -16's with that, with supported armament and structure and knowledge with support in India. Or you could've bought many more SU-30's...........that's insane. Dessault milked it.

 

[he-man]

Because you get limited number of fighters (Qatar has just 12), with systems that wasn't chosen under your requirement and if they are newer than the M2Ks we have, we need to keep them modernising beyond 2025 as well and which upgrade options will be available then?
Reports suggested that we offered over $31 millions per fighter, which they rejected, since they payed nearly twice as much with support and all, which is also a point that must be considered, because you buy fighters with a support of spares and weapons for around 30 years. But if you sell of the fighter after 15 years without getting the money back, it's a huge loss and that is the same for any fighter. That's why countries sell their fighters only at the end of their life, or if they have already decided for something better and both were noth the case for Qatar nor the UAE back then.

The same fits to our Russian fighters btw as well, we paid around $46 millions each Mig 29K, the UPG upgrade comes at more then $22 millions each and the next K upgrade will be even closer to $30 million each, with 2 or 3 upgrades along the lifecycle. So should we sell the Mig 29Ks after 10 years as well, because the upgrade might cost around 65% of the original procurment cost?
That's how it works, you don't earn the most money with selling a car, but with maintenance and repairs and but as long as it does what you want to do with it, it's worth it!

i would like u to give me a source for ur claim on mig-29 upgrade figures please.
the problem with mirage 2000 upgrade is that its not even a very good upgrade with only 10-12 years life left.

it was a stupid deal and i would be least surprised if a corruption scandal of kickbacks comes into fore a few years down the line.

The upgrade cost is so high that we should have got at least an aesa instead of that shitty rdy-2/3..........hell at least a pesa would have been welcome for 40 million per aircraft upgrade.

Next problem is there is no engine change,which sucks.

I smell the kickbacks all the way

Please post more detail technical comparison of both.

no one can.
no technical data exists for these birds,,,most of the differences are in the ecm,,,like icms mk4 for mirage 2000 upgrade compared to something less potent in original one.

no details are available and i think both upgraded mirage 2000 and 2000-9 use the same thales rdy-2 radar but uae birds have additional air to ground modes.

so i think there is not much difference between them

Isn't that coming to 3-4 Billion USD?? Phew, you could've bought about 50 -16's with that, with supported armament and structure and knowledge with support in India. Or you could've bought many more SU-30's...........that's insane. Dessault milked it.

yes they have,,,and i guess lot of our military guys are laughing all the way to the bank

 

[sancho]

i would like u to give me a source for ur claim on mig-29 upgrade figures please.
the problem with mirage 2000 upgrade is that its not even a very good upgrade with only 10-12 years life left.

The cost figures are widely available, look it up but include the costs of the engines and the foreign avionics too, to get it at a similar tech level and life extention as the M2K, btw both upgrades are meant for a similar life span, between 10 to 15 years, which is normal for such a life extention including overhaul.

 

[he-man]

The cost figures are widely available, look it up but include the costs of the engines and the foreign avionics too, to get it at a similar tech level and life extention as the M2K, btw both upgrades are meant for a similar life span, between 10 to 15 years, which is normal for such a life extention including overhaul.

i am still not convinced on mirage 2000 upgrade,,nope.
for 40 million we needed at least a pesa,,,rdy-2 is like a 10-12 year old radar,simple pulse doppler,mechanical slotted array.

but i just hope icms mk3 or 4 whatever comes with it is worth the money.

i am looking forward to next mig-29 upgrade with aesa and same goes for mki.

any idea on super mki upgrade??

 

[sancho]

i am still not convinced on mirage 2000 upgrade,,nope.
for 40 million we needed at least a pesa,,,rdy-2 is like a 10-12 year old radar,simple pulse doppler,mechanical slotted array.

but i just hope icms mk3 or 4 whatever comes with it is worth the money.

i am looking forward to next mig-29 upgrade with aesa and same goes for mki.

any idea on super mki upgrade??

Since the RBE 2 PESA hardy had offered more performance, but higher costs, that was not an issue and since not even the Migs get PESA where is the point anyway? Btw IAFs Migs won't get another upgrade anymore, only IN's and it would be nuts if we then would still be dependent on a Russian AESA for them.

MKI upgrade is not fixed, upgraded PESA, upgrade to BARS AESA, or bigger Zhuk AE, all possible

 

[he-man]

Since the RBE 2 PESA hardy had offered more performance, but higher costs, that was not an issue and since not even the Migs get PESA where is the point anyway? Btw IAFs Migs won't get another upgrade anymore, only IN's and it would be nuts if we then would still be dependent on a Russian AESA for them.

MKI upgrade is not fixed, upgraded PESA, upgrade to BARS AESA, or bigger Zhuk AE, all possible

really??lol
the difference is too big man,,,i mean no comparison at all.
mki will never have zhuk-ae,it always had and will always have a niip radar and not a phazotron one.

and it better be an aesa this time

 

[Basel]

i am still not convinced on mirage 2000 upgrade,,nope.
for 40 million we needed at least a pesa,,,rdy-2 is like a 10-12 year old radar,simple pulse doppler,mechanical slotted array.
but i just hope icms mk3 or 4 whatever comes with it is worth the money.
i am looking forward to next mig-29 upgrade with aesa and same goes for mki.
any idea on super mki upgrade??

What no AESA or PESA and upgrade cost 40mil a piece? you may have bought new Gripens in this amount with no AESA.

 

[he-man]

What no AESA or PESA and upgrade cost 40mil a piece? you may have bought new Gripens in this amount with no AESA.

thats 100% correct.

 

[Basel]

thats 100% correct.

Why IAF is upgrading them when you have LCA on the horizon and no major threat in near future?

 

[rockstarIN]

What no AESA or PESA and upgrade cost 40mil a piece? you may have bought new Gripens in this amount with no AESA.

Gripes are more expensive than f16 s I believe.

A nd as per the french m2k latest version will do 70% of what rafale will do.

 

[ravinderpalrulez]

I think IAF needs mirages for nuclear delivery!! So as compared to super sukhois still they are at better place

 

[rockstarIN]

Why IAF is upgrading them when you have LCA on the horizon and no major threat in near future?

Iaf has immense faith on this bird and love it. That's the main reason if any war with China in the near future, before we get rafale with good squadron numbers., this is one of the potent fighter we have.