Help me understand Jew history

[SrNair]

Prophet Abraham Had 2 sons. Ishmael and Isaac. Both were prophet. Ishmael settled in Arab region - while Isaac Settled in Jordan Palestine region. Isaac had a son , named Jacob who was a prophet too. Jacob had 12 sons. Jacob's another name is Israel and these 12 sons and their descendents are called 12 tribes of Israel. Jacob migrated to Egypt with his sons to live where His favorite son Joseph was a governor and a prophet. Thats how jews ended up in Egypt. Moses rescued them from Pharao and took them in Palestine, the land promised and Given to them by God as they say. Then they had series of prophets like Solemon, David who established Jews as a strong nation and built their temple in Jerusalem making it a holy city for Jews. Then centuries later Babylon destroyed their temple and took them as prisoners all the way to babylon. Thats how they were expelled from Jerusalem. However ,they were let to regather in Palestine by Another babylonian king Possibly Cyrus the Great as far as i remember. Then they came under romans who started persecuting them as the romans converted to Christianity.
They expelled Jews from their temples and destroyed it again. Caliph Umar defeated Romans and allowed Jews back in Jerusalem . But the temple was destroyed by Romans and the Jews have been praying near the wall since then .

Jews donot consider Muhammad a prophet because he is a descendant of Ishmael not Isaac. That is where all the problem.

Its from my memory. So ignore my mistakes if there is any.

As far as I know Cyrus the Great was a Persian King who established large Achamenid empire.

 

[Dubious]

You are entitled to like any poem. But when you post it on a thread about Jewish history, you are implying that the poem accurately reflects jewish history. As I said before, don't pretend that you only posted it here because of the poetic merits of that poem.

It does reflect their history...I told you bring me proof it doesnt!

And how is it false? try discussing the msg not the msgr!

 

[janon]

It does reflect their history...I told you bring me proof it doesnt!

The burden of proof is on you since you made the claim and brought it into the discussion. What sort of "proof" are you looking for, to counter a poem? A mathematical one?

If poems are your idea of "proofs", I can do it much better than you, and I can give you poems that actually do have literary merit.

The Jewish Cemetery at Newport

By Henry Wadsworth Longfellow 1807–1882

How strange it seems! These Hebrews in their graves,
Close by the street of this fair seaport town,
Silent beside the never-silent waves,
At rest in all this moving up and down!

The trees are white with dust, that o'er their sleep
Wave their broad curtains in the south-wind's breath,
While underneath these leafy tents they keep
The long, mysterious Exodus of Death.

And these sepulchral stones, so old and brown,
That pave with level flags their burial-place,
Seem like the tablets of the Law, thrown down
And broken by Moses at the mountain's base.

The very names recorded here are strange,
Of foreign accent, and of different climes;
Alvares and Rivera interchange
With Abraham and Jacob of old times.

"Blessed be God! for he created Death!"
The mourners said, "and Death is rest and peace;"
Then added, in the certainty of faith,
"And giveth Life that nevermore shall cease."

Closed are the portals of their Synagogue,
No Psalms of David now the silence break,
No Rabbi reads the ancient Decalogue
In the grand dialect the Prophets spake.

Gone are the living, but the dead remain,
And not neglected; for a hand unseen,
Scattering its bounty, like a summer rain,
Still keeps their graves and their remembrance green.

How came they here? What burst of Christian hate,
What persecution, merciless and blind,
Drove o'er the sea — that desert desolate —
These Ishmaels and Hagars of mankind?

They lived in narrow streets and lanes obscure,
Ghetto and Judenstrass, in mirk and mire;
Taught in the school of patience to endure
The life of anguish and the death of fire.

All their lives long, with the unleavened bread
And bitter herbs of exile and its fears,
The wasting famine of the heart they fed,
And slaked its thirst with marah of their tears.

Anathema maranatha! was the cry
That rang from town to town, from street to street;
At every gate the accursed Mordecai
Was mocked and jeered, and spurned by Christian feet.

Pride and humiliation hand in hand
Walked with them through the world where'er they went;
Trampled and beaten were they as the sand,
And yet unshaken as the continent.

For in the background figures vague and vast
Of patriarchs and of prophets rose sublime,
And all the great traditions of the Past
They saw reflected in the coming time.

And thus forever with reverted look
The mystic volume of the world they read,
Spelling it backward, like a Hebrew book,
Till life became a Legend of the Dead.

But ah! what once has been shall be no more!
The groaning earth in travail and in pain
Brings forth its races, but does not restore,
And the dead nations never rise again.

 

[Dubious]

The burden of proof is on you since you made the claim and brought it into the discussion. What sort of "proof" are you looking for, to counter a poem? A mathematical one?
If poems are your idea of "proofs", I can do it much better than you, and I can give you poems that actually do have literary merit.

I never asked you to produce a poem but asked you to prove how the poem is wrong as per your claim!

The Jewish Cemetery at Newport

The poem failed to show why the hate? Just jumps into the scene...

 

[janon]

The poem failed to show why the hate? Just jumps into the scene...

It wasn't intended to show why the hate. The thread is about Jewish history, and that poem is a narrative of the exiled Jewish people and their travails for millenia.

Why the hate is quite obvious - the common trend among Abrahamic religions is "My religion true, other false, hate them."

 

[Dubious]

Why the hate is quite obvious - the common trend among Abrahamic religions is "My religion true, other false, hate them."

Its a little more than that and the hen poem explained it and it can be backed by historical references...you see you didnt read the poem but instead leashed out at me!

 

[SrNair]

If this were true...it is rather strange that the 10 stuck together and hated Joseph....while Benjamin was only born after Joseph was already thrown in the well and sold as a slave


Lovely history...1 problem:

before 2000 yrs back there was no Muslims nor Christians...only pagans Christianity is as new as 2000 yrs and Islam 1400 yrs (I am mentioning your understanding to the terms used) so if they did reach India and were eaten up we wouldnt know...writing except India just shows how biased you are! Until and unless you can prove Indians were tolerant enough to accept people who were different to them (Indian tribes to states were always fighting 1 another...all their mahrajas were always out to hunt))


Well, hearsay is not history...those who came back were given intensives by the Jewish state...2ndly most of those who came back were Ashkenazi Jews not Jews of the bible!


Do we need to refer to the post where on twitter the Jewish ladies were I dont know saying die Arabs? or some other stuff that you will still fail to see due to blindness

I dont know whether the Indians at that time is intolerant or not completely.

But there is some evidences that they have tolerances.One of it is in Fort Kochi and Mattanchery area in Kerala.You can check google as Jews in Kochi .And they had a synagogue in Mattanchery.Still there are some few jews there.

 

[BDforever]

Based on different versions I am reading Jews were from the middle east. So why people oppose Israel?

basically because they are not actual desendent arab but they are europien, most of them are actually converted jew

another thing:

bottom line is jews after there eviction by the romans from jeruslam almost 2000 years back scatterred all over the known world but for all that period were houded and hunted and were a fair game both for muslims and christians (exept india)

but even after all these years they somehow survived and got back there land but still many dont want to give them back what was always theres so they are fighting it owt and surviving as they always did

god bless jewish people for there never say die attitude and positiveness

just like current american are not actual american, they are basically british, red indians are original american and those current american should leave

 

[danger007]

Hi,
I am starting this thread to learn some history about Jews. Since I come here often and lot of times the discussion happen around Muslims history and Jew and their relation. I decided to watch a 3 hour documentary on Prophet Muhammad on YouTube. I got some understanding on Islam and how it came into existence. However I want to focus on Jew history in relation to Islam.

What I understood in that documentary is as follows.
1) Prophet Muhammad had to move to Medina since he faced threat from Quraesh tribe in Mecca.
2) Jews were living in Medina, more than one tribe.
3) Prophet Muhammad when he again tried to go to Medina made Quraesh unhappy and they attacked Medina.
4) Jews tribe were unhappy that their business was getting impacted hence there was a rumor that they are meeting Quraseh.
5) Prophet Muhammad fought Jews and made them leave Medina.

So, how did the Jews landed in Israel?
Since they were already in Arab land, don't you think they have ownership on Arab land.

I want to understand this in context of Israel Palestine fight and has it anything to do with what I saw?

Please treat this as purely history point of view and do not drag religion into it.

I need to know this so that I better understand your discussion.

jewishhistory.huji.ac.il/links/maps.htm

 

[FaujHistorian]

Go search for Prophet Muhammad on YouTube there is one with 3 hour duration. How can it be personal view when I knew nothing. I just summerized the documentary.

Link?

your summary contains errors.

 

[Dubious]

Lets see what historical figures had to say:

CICERO (Marcus Tullius Cicero). First century B.C. Roman statesman, writer.

"Softly! Softly! I want none but the judges to hear me. The Jews have already gotten me into a fine mess, as they have many other gentleman. I have no desire to furnish further grist for their mills." (Oration in Defense of Flaccus)

Cicero was serving as defense counsel at the trial of Flaccus, a Roman official who interfered with Jewish gold shipments to their international headquarters (then, as now) in Jerusalem. Cicero himself certainly was not a nobody, and for one of this stature to have to "speak softly" shows that he was in the presence of a dangerously powerful sphere of influence. and on another occasion Cicero wrote: "The Jews belong to a dark and repulsive force. One knows how numerous this clique is, how they stick together and what power they exercise through their unions. They are a nation of rascals and deceivers."

SENECA (Lucius Annaeus Seneca). First century Roman philosopher. "The customs of that most criminal nation have gained such strength that they have now been received in all lands. The conquered have given laws to the conquerors." (De Superstitione)

DIO CASSIUS. Second century Roman historian. Describing the savage Jewish uprising against the Roman empire that has been acknowledged as the turning point downward in the course of that great state-form: "The Jews were destroying both Greeks and Romans. They ate the flesh of their victims, made belts for themselves out of their entrails, and daubed themselves with their blood... In all, 220,000 men perished in Cyrene and 240,000 in Cyprus, and for this reason no Jew may set foot in Cyprus today." (Roman History)

DIODORUS SICULUS. First century Greek historian. Observed that Jews treated other people as enemies and inferiors. "Usury" is the practice of lending money at excessive interest rates. This has for centuries caused great misery and poverty for Gentiles. It has brought strong condemnation of the Jews!

BERNARDINO OF FELTRO. 15th century Italian priest. A mild man who extolled patience and charity in normal circumstances, he described himself as a "barking dog" when dealing with Jews: "Jewish usurers bleed the poor to death and grow fat on their substance, and I who live on alms, who feed on the bread of the poor, shall I then be mute before outraged charity? Dogs bark to protect those who feed them, and I, who am feed by the poor, shall I see them robbed of what belongs to them and keep silent?" (E. Flornoy, Le Bienbeureux Bernardin the Feltre)

AQUINAS, THOMAS, Saint. 13th century scholastic philosopher. In his "On the Governance of the Jews," he wrote: "The Jews should not be allowed to keep what they have obtained from others by usury; it were best that they were compelled to worked so that they could earn their living instead of doing nothing but becoming avaricious."

HILAIRE BELLOC, in the book THE JEWS, page 9 "There is already something like a Jewish monopoly in high finance . . . There is the same element of Jewish monopoly in the silver trade, and in the control of various other metals, notably lead, nickel, quicksilver. What is most disquieting of all, this tendency to monopoly is spreading like a disease."

H. H. BEAMISH, in New York Speech, October 30, 1937 "The Boer War occurred 37 years ago. Boer means farmer. Many criticized a great power like Britain for trying to wipe out the Boers. Upon making inquiry, I found all the gold and diamond mines of South Africa were owned by Jews; that Rothschild controlled gold; Samuels controlled silver, Baum controlled other mining, and Moses controlled base metals. Anything these people touch they inevitably pollute."

W. HUGHES, Premier of Australia, Saturday Evening Post, June 19, 1919 "The Montefiores have taken Australia for their own, and there is not a gold field or a sheep run from Tasmania to New South Wales that does not pay them a heavy tribute. They are the real owners of the antipodean continent. What is the good of our being a wealthy nation, if the wealth is all in the hands of German Jews?"


POPE CLEMENT VIII "All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. Then as now Jews have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live."

JESUS CHRIST, speaking to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John, 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. - then answered the Jews -- " (which makes it clear that Christ was addressing the Jews.)

ST. JUSTIN, martyr stated in 116 A. D. "The Jews were behind all the persecutions of the Christians. They wandered through the country everywhere hating and undermining the Christian faith."

MARIA THERESA, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (1771 - 1789) "Henceforth no Jew, no matter under what name, will be allowed to remain here without my written permission. I know of no other troublesome pest within the state than this race, which impoverished the people by their fraud, usury and money-lending and commits all deeds which an honorable man despises. Subsequently they have to be removed and excluded from here as much as possible."



Basically everyone hates them in finance

 

[FaujHistorian]

Lets see what historical figures had to say:

CICERO (Marcus Tullius Cicero). First century B.C. Roman statesman, writer.



Basically everyone hates them in finance

Please do not spread hate against entire people.


discuss their current leadership and if you agree or diagree with their policies.

Like in Pakistan, NS doesn't ask you and I how to make the next decision. So is true about majority Jewish people.

Thank you

 

[Dubious]

Between the years 250 CE and 1948 CE - a period of 1,700 years - Jews have experienced more than eighty expulsions from various countries in Europe - an average of nearly one expulsion every twenty-one years. Jews were expelled from England, France, Austria, Germany, Lithuania, Spain, Portugal, Bohemia, Moravia and seventy-one other countries.

Please do not spread hate against entire people.
discuss their current leadership and if you agree or diagree with their policies.
Like in Pakistan, NS doesn't ask you and I how to make the next decision. So is true about majority Jewish people.
Thank you

I am not spreading hate...I am quoting what people from past to present have said about Jews...I dont know why they would hate them but I summed it up it has to do with finance....


BTW, The thread is about their history not their current situation....I believe you are in the wrong thread

 

[dravidianhero]

Actually yes, the whole conflict is not easy to understand for us as Indians. May be we have very little knowledge of middle east history. These fights could be influenced from history.

I am giving you accurate information.Jews were very impressed with Muhammad as he rejected Jesus as god.Jews welcomed Muhammad to Medina with open arms as he also imbibed many Jewish teachings into his new religion(you can Google for the information).Muhammad also gave much respect to Jewish prophets like moses,David,Jacob etc.He even made Palestine which is a holy place of Jews as qibla.but the differences started when Muhammad became powerful in Medina and demanded Jews to join his new religion.From then on Muhammad started killing Jews relentlessly.There is a famous story in which Muhammad beheads 700 Jewish men and takes as many of their women as slaves(concubines for him and muslims).Back in those days Jews were no diff from Muslims today.They also used to brag that they were God chosen ppl and only they would go to heaven.

 

[dravidianhero]

bottom line is jews after there eviction by the romans from jeruslam almost 2000 years back scatterred all over the known world but for all that period were houded and hunted and were a fair game both for muslims and christians (exept india)

but even after all these years they somehow survived and got back there land but still many dont want to give them back what was always theres so they are fighting it owt and surviving as they always did

god bless jewish people for there never say die attitude and positiveness

I don't believe in God but somethings in life sometimes make me doubt my beliefs and the survival of Jews is one such thing.No other community faced as many hardships as Jews (in fact Jews were no innocents to be honest ) and still survived after thousands of years.I once read somewhere that all the great people who changed the course of human history were Jews.
Jesus,Karl Marx,Sigmund Freud and Albert Einstein.