Help me understand Jew history

[B+ Dracula]

Prophet Abraham Had 2 sons. Ishmael and Isaac. Both were prophet. Ishmael settled in Arab region - while Isaac Settled in Jordan Palestine region. Isaac had a son , named Jacob who was a prophet too. Jacob had 12 sons. Jacob's another name is Israel and these 12 sons and their descendents are called 12 tribes of Israel. Jacob migrated to Egypt with his sons to live where His favorite son Joseph was a governor and a prophet. Thats how jews ended up in Egypt. Moses rescued them from Pharao and took them in Palestine, the land promised and Given to them by God as they say. Then they had series of prophets like Solemon, David who established Jews as a strong nation and built their temple in Jerusalem making it a holy city for Jews. Then centuries later Babylon destroyed their temple and took them as prisoners all the way to babylon. Thats how they were expelled from Jerusalem. However ,they were let to regather in Palestine by Another babylonian king Possibly Cyrus the Great as far as i remember. Then they came under romans who started persecuting them as the romans converted to Christianity.
They expelled Jews from their temples and destroyed it again. Caliph Umar defeated Romans and allowed Jews back in Jerusalem . But the temple was destroyed by Romans and the Jews have been praying near the wall since then .
Jews donot consider Muhammad a prophet because he is a descendant of Ishmael not Isaac. That is where all the problem.
Its from my memory. So ignore my mistakes if there is any.

Its fine.....

 

[FaujHistorian]

Actually yes, the whole conflict is not easy to understand for us as Indians. May be we have very little knowledge of middle east history. These fights could be influenced from history.

If you read Gita. (I am sure you do. Correct?)

you will find plenty of parallels.

 

[HunterKiller]

Please treat this as purely history point of view and do not drag religion into it.
I need to know this so that I better understand your discussion.

Here's a small video showing the actual reason behind Palestine - Israel conflict. I shared it on another thread also. Watch it

Video Providers - Anonymous Hacktivists

 

[wise_owl]

It's important to look at the bigger picture.

The so-called "chosen people" were NOT the jews, rather "Children of Israel" (c.o.i) = "Bani-Israel"...

Israel was nick name of Prophet Yaakoob(Jacob) ... So children of israel = children of Jacob\Bani-Ya'koob..


.
.
.

Ya'koob had ~11 sons. Out of which he we had 11 tribes of coi...

Jews are ONLY one of those 11 tribes of coi...

Rest of those 11 tribes are called "Lost tribes of coi"...

Bible says that "Lost Tribes", migrated towards the EAST... & then they disappear from bible; hence "Lost Tribes".

The tradition says that those Lost Tribes are the Pashtoon & Kasmiris...

SO the Lost Tribes of chosen people converted to Islam... Hence majority of Children of Israel(Jacob) are now Muslim...


Imran Khan is a Bani-Israel... Nawaz Sharif is a Bani-Israel...

jacob (Israel) had 12 sons from two wives (the sisters elder Leah and the younger Rachel) and two concubines (Bilhah and Zilpah)

First wife Leah had six sons Reuben, Judah, Levi, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun.
Second wife Rachel had two sons Joseph and Benjamin.
Bilhah - Rachel's maid had two sons Dan and Napthali.
Zilpah - Leah's maid had two sons Gad and Asher.

Joseph's son Ephraim and Manasseh who were born in Egypt are also considered the sons of Jacob (Israel)

 

[qamar1990]

Please do not mix history with fables. That defeats the purpose.

why don't you tell us the history ...

Abraham had 3 Wives - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah and eight sons Isaac, Ishmael, Midian, imran, Jokshan, Shuah, Ishbak, Medan.

never heard this, sources?

 

[GURU DUTT]

bottom line is jews after there eviction by the romans from jeruslam almost 2000 years back scatterred all over the known world but for all that period were houded and hunted and were a fair game both for muslims and christians (exept india)

but even after all these years they somehow survived and got back there land but still many dont want to give them back what was always theres so they are fighting it owt and surviving as they always did

god bless jewish people for there never say die attitude and positiveness

 

[wise_owl]

why don't you tell us the history ...


never heard this, sources?

Source : Hebrew Bible or Torah, Book Genesis Chapter 25

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0125.htm#1

Keturah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dubious]

jacob (Israel) had 12 sons from two wives (the sisters elder Leah and the younger Rachel) and two concubines (Bilhah and Zilpah)

First wife Leah had six sons Reuben, Judah, Levi, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun.
Second wife Rachel had two sons Joseph and Benjamin.
Bilhah - Rachel's maid had two sons Dan and Napthali.
Zilpah - Leah's maid had two sons Gad and Asher.

Joseph's son Ephraim and Manasseh who were born in Egypt are also considered the sons of Jacob (Israel)

If this were true...it is rather strange that the 10 stuck together and hated Joseph....while Benjamin was only born after Joseph was already thrown in the well and sold as a slave

2000 years back scatterred all over the known world but for all that period were houded and hunted and were a fair game both for muslims and christians (exept india)

Lovely history...1 problem:

before 2000 yrs back there was no Muslims nor Christians...only pagans Christianity is as new as 2000 yrs and Islam 1400 yrs (I am mentioning your understanding to the terms used) so if they did reach India and were eaten up we wouldnt know...writing except India just shows how biased you are! Until and unless you can prove Indians were tolerant enough to accept people who were different to them (Indian tribes to states were always fighting 1 another...all their mahrajas were always out to hunt))

but even after all these years they somehow survived and got back there land but still many dont want to give them back what was always theres so they are fighting it owt and surviving as they always did

Well, hearsay is not history...those who came back were given intensives by the Jewish state...2ndly most of those who came back were Ashkenazi Jews not Jews of the bible!

god bless jewish people for there never say die attitude and positiveness

Do we need to refer to the post where on twitter the Jewish ladies were I dont know saying die Arabs? or some other stuff that you will still fail to see due to blindness

 

[Dubious]

Hi,
I am starting this thread to learn some history about Jews. Since I come here often and lot of times the discussion happen around Muslims history and Jew and their relation. I decided to watch a 3 hour documentary on Prophet Muhammad on YouTube. I got some understanding on Islam and how it came into existence. However I want to focus on Jew history in relation to Islam.

What I understood in that documentary is as follows.
1) Prophet Muhammad had to move to Medina since he faced threat from Quraesh tribe in Mecca.
2) Jews were living in Medina, more than one tribe.
3) Prophet Muhammad when he again tried to go to Medina made Quraesh unhappy and they attacked Medina.
4) Jews tribe were unhappy that their business was getting impacted hence there was a rumor that they are meeting Quraseh.
5) Prophet Muhammad fought Jews and made them leave Medina.

So, how did the Jews landed in Israel?
Since they were already in Arab land, don't you think they have ownership on Arab land.

I want to understand this in context of Israel Palestine fight and has it anything to do with what I saw?

Please treat this as purely history point of view and do not drag religion into it.

I need to know this so that I better understand your discussion.

What you need to understand is who are the Jews:

Abraham had 2 children....some references say 3 wives some say 2 wives...
but most agree on 2 wives 2 children....Ishaq and Ishmael

Ishaq had children Yaqoob or Jacob whose other name was Israel...So any descend from him is a Jew while any descendant from Ishmael is an Arab.


God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel. [Genesis 35:10]

Now Jacob had 12 sons from (sources say 2 wives because 10 of the sons stuck together always and hated 1 who was Yusuf or Joseph)

However the 12 sons dispersed all over ....who are they? Even Israelis are searching for them and made an open call to ask them to return to their land coz it is them to whom god gave Palestine / Israel area...they are the rightful "heir" not the European Jews who were converted during conquest!


Jews of Madina...then known as Yathrib:

Judaism was already well established in Medina two centuries before Muhammad's birth. Although influential, the Jews did not rule the oasis. Rather, they were clients of two large Arab tribes there, the Khazraj and the Aws Allah, who protected them in return for feudal loyalty. Medina's Jews were expert jewelers, and weapons and armor makers. There were many Jewish clans-some records indicate more than twenty, of which three were prominent-the Banu Nadir, the Banu Qaynuqa, and the Banu Qurayza.

Various traditions uphold different views, and it is unclear whether Medina's Jewish clans were Arabized Jews or Arabs who practiced Jewish monotheism. Certainly they were Arabic speakers with Arab names. They followed the fundamental precepts of the Torah, though scholars question their familiarity with the Talmud and Jewish scholarship

Jacob migrated to Egypt with his sons to live where His favorite son Joseph was a governor and a prophet. Thats how jews ended up in Egypt. Moses rescued them from Pharao and took them in Palestine, the land promised and Given to them by God as they say. Then they had series of prophets like Solemon, David who established Jews as a strong nation and built their temple in Jerusalem making it a holy city for Jews. Then centuries later Babylon destroyed their temple and took them as prisoners all the way to babylon. Thats how they were expelled from Jerusalem. However ,they were let to regather in Palestine by Another babylonian king Possibly Cyrus the Great as far as i remember. Then they came under romans who started persecuting them as the romans converted to Christianity.
They expelled Jews from their temples and destroyed it again. Caliph Umar defeated Romans and allowed Jews back in Jerusalem . But the temple was destroyed by Romans and the Jews have been praying near the wall since then .
Jews donot consider Muhammad a prophet because he is a descendant of Ishmael not Isaac. That is where all the problem.

All this bit is correct Bold parts are the turn of events....

 

[GURU DUTT]

If this were true...it is rather strange that the 10 stuck together and hated Joseph....while Benjamin was only born after Joseph was already thrown in the well and sold as a slave


Lovely history...1 problem:

before 2000 yrs back there was no Muslims nor Christians...only pagans Christianity is as new as 2000 yrs and Islam 1400 yrs (I am mentioning your understanding to the terms used) so if they did reach India and were eaten up we wouldnt know...writing except India just shows how biased you are! Until and unless you can prove Indians were tolerant enough to accept people who were different to them (Indian tribes to states were always fighting 1 another...all their mahrajas were always out to hunt))


Well, hearsay is not history...those who came back were given intensives by the Jewish state...2ndly most of those who came back were Ashkenazi Jews not Jews of the bible!


Do we need to refer to the post where on twitter the Jewish ladies were I dont know saying die Arabs? or some other stuff that you will still fail to see due to blindness

1. but jews and hindus were even then and are even now despite both christian and muslim rules and there best tactiks to conert all of india but still there are many ghairatmand hindus who will love to die than to surrender to any other faith and same is the condition of jews

as for indians rajas yes they kept fighting "among each other" but never imposed there relegous thoughts and will or tried to convert non hindus to hinduism

2. who ever survived or not i dont want to go intofancy names but point that is relevent today is that despite best efforts by both christians and muslim or pagan romans jews survived and now are ruling allthe so caled "modern world"

3.well i can give you endless fotos and videos of muslims all over the world showing there will to kill all those who dont want to exept islam let alone jews as for arabs well why are you trying to shame yourself lolzz they call you "taal rafique " & "haza muskin" and still pakistanies dont let a chance to glorify arabs when we all know howarabs treat pakistanies in all the oil rich arab nations

 

[Dubious]

The Fable of the Ducks and the Hens
Posted on: 2004-03-26 01:34:15

by George Lincoln Rockwell (1918-1967)

Many, many years ago,
When animals could speak.
A wondrous thing the ducks befell;
Their tale is quite unique.

Down by a pond dwelt all these ducks,
Ten thousand at the least.
Their duckish joys were undisturbed
By any man or beast.

One day, down near the entrance gate,
There was an awful din.
A hundred hens all out of breath
Were begging to come in.

"Oh let us in!" these poor birds cried,
"Before we do expire!
"'Tis only by the merest inch
"That we escaped the fire!"

Their feathers singed, their combs adroop,
They were the saddest sight.
They’d run a hundred miles or more,
All day and then all night.

"Come in! Come in!" the ducks all quacked,
"For you our hearts do bleed!
"We’ll share our happy lot with you,
"Just tell us what you need!"

And so the poor bedraggled hens
Amongst the ducks moved in.
"For, after all," the ducks declared,
"We’re sisters ‘neath the skin."

Before too many months had passed,
The hens were good as new.
They sent for all their rooster friends,
And these were welcomed too.

To please their host, these chickens tried
To waddle and to quack.
To simulate the duckish ways
They quickly learned the knack.

This pleased the flock of ducks, because
It gratified their pride.
But hear my tale and learn how they
Got taken for a ride.

The ducks, it seemed, spent all their time
In fixing up the place,
In growing food and building homes
And cleaning every space.

They asked the hens what they would do
To earn their daily bread.
"We’ll teach and write and entertain,
"And buy and sell," they said.

And so the hens began to teach
The baby ducks and chicks.
They traded food and eggs and things,
With many clever tricks.

They wrote great books and put on shows;
Of genius they’d no lack.
It wasn’t long till chickens owned
The Duckville Daily Quack.

One day a mother duck who took
Her ducklings to the lake,
Was flabbergasted when one said,
"A swim I will not take!"

"Why ducklings always swim!" she gasped,
"It’s what you’re built to do!
"Like bunnies hop, and crickets chirp,
"And cows 'most always moo!

"You're nuts!" her little son replied,
"That stuff is all old hat!
"It’s wrong for birds to swim; besides,
"It’s too damned cold on my pratt!"

"Oh fie!" the mother duck exclaimed,
"You’re talking like a fool!"
Up quacked the other ducks and said,
"He’s right! We learned in school!"

"Such things must stop!" the mother cried,
"Those hens can’t teach such lies!
"For sheer ingratitude and nerve,
"I’m sure this takes the prize!"

But she was wrong, for even then
The hens did thump the tub,
Demanding they be let into
The Duckville Swimming Club.

"But you don’t swim!" the ducks exclaimed,
"To join, why should you care?"
"That’s not the point!" the hens replied,
"To exclude us isn’t fair!"

The younger ducks, who’d been to school,
Agreed right there and then:
"To keep them out is bigotry!
"T’would just be anti-hen!"

Outnumbered by the younger ducks,
The old ducks soon did lose.
They agreed to let the hens all in,
If they would pay the dues.

That night the Duckville Daily Quack
Contained this banner spread:
"Reactionary Ducks Are Licked!
"Duckville Moves Ahead!"

Down at the Duckville Gaiety,
The young set laughed with glee,
At cracks about "old fuddy ducks"
In burlesque repartee.

Next day the hens were at the club,
A petition they’d sent 'round:
They objected to the swimming fund
With fury and with sound.

"You use our dues to fix the pond,
"To keep it neat and trim.
"And this is wrong," they said, "because
"You know we do not swim!"

"God help us!" cried a wise old duck,
"These chickens have gone mad!
"We’ll take this to the court, by George!
"And justice will be had!"

But when they went up to the judge,
Imagine their dismay!
A chicken-judge decreed that they
A heavy fine must pay!

"Minorities must have their rights!"
The judge declared right then.
"To use hens' dues to fix the pond
"Is very anti-hen!

Once more the Duckville Daily Quack
Emblazoned 'cross the page:
"Old Fogey Ducks Refuse to See
"The Great New Coming Age!"

In Duckville's church on Sunday morn,
The preacher spoke these words,
"Discrimination’s got to stop!
"Remember, we’re all birds!"

The wisest duck in all the town
Sat down in black despair.
"I’ll write a book," he thought, "and then
"This madness I will bare!"

"Let swimmers swim, let hoppers hop,
"Let each one go his way.
"Let none coerce a fellow bird!"
Was what he had to say.

"T'was wrong to force the hens to swim,
"So here’s the problem’s crux;
"It’s just as bad for hens to try
"To chicken-ize our ducks!"

"I can’t print that," the printer said,
"T'will put me in a mess!
"My shop is mortgaged to the hens;
"The chickens own my press!"

This worried duck then tried to warn
His friends by speech and pen,
But young ducks fresh from school just jeered.
"He’s a vicious anti-hen!"

Now up the stream a little way
Was Gooseville, on the lake.
The hens had come to Gooseville too,
But the geese were more awake.

When the hens began to spoil the young,
And Gooseville’s laws to flout,
The geese rose up in righteous wrath
And simply threw them out.

Of course you know where they all ran;
On Duckville they converged.
"We’ve got to take these refugees,"
Was what the hens all urged.

The Duckville Daily Quack declared:
"These geese will stop at naught!
"They plan to conquer all the world!
"Atrocities they’ve wrought!"

"That’s right!" the young ducks all agreed,
"We’ll help our fellow birds!
"These geese have plans to conquer us!
"We’ve read the Quack’s own words!"

They let the hens from Gooseville in,
The whole bedraggled pack.
And every hen took up a job
On Duckville's Daily Quack!

When Duckville's mayor’s term was up,
The Quack put up its duck.
A vain and stupid duck was he,
A veritable cluck!

But when he praised the wild young ducks,
And cursed the evil geese,
The Quack declared he was all-wise;
His praise would never cease.

The hens chipped in to help this cluck
Give grain away for free.
The old ducks sadly shook their heads;
The writing they could see.

And, sure enough, this stupid duck,
He was elected mayor.
From this point on, the Duckville ducks,
They never had a prayer.

The Mayor said, "Gooseville must go!
"We’ll wipe them off the map!"
While Duckville slept, the scheming hens
For Gooseville set a trap.

They called the geese by filthy names;
They filled their pond with sticks.
They helped the weasels catch the geese,
And other hennish tricks.

The geese got mad and threw some rocks.
"It’s war!" the Quack announced.
"We ducks must fight those evil geese
"'Till they’ve been soundly trounced!"

The ducks (who knew not of the tricks
Indulged in by the mayor)
Were filled with patriotic zeal,
And pitched right in for fair!

Now when the ducks had whipped the geese,
The Mayor called "Retreat!"
"Our hennish friends should really take
"Gooseville’s big main street!"

The hens were back in Gooseville now.
They starved and beat the geese.
They prayed for Peace — but organized
The "Hennish Armed Police!"

They drained the Gooseville swimming pond;
They de-goose-ified the schools;
They wrung the neck of Gooseville's mayor
On lately made-up rules.

They formed a council of the hens:
"United Birds" the name.
The other birds who joined the thing
Did not perceive the game.

No sooner had they set this up,
Than they announced their plan
To seize up Swanville as a home
For all their hennish clan.

They took a vote among the hens,
And every one approved!
"Swanville was for hens!" they said,
"Way back, before we moved."

And so they kicked the swans all out,
With Duckville’s help and power,
And Duckville couldn’t understand
Why swans on them turned sour.

By this time, Duckville was a mess,
The young ducks had gone mad.
They stole and laughed at truth and law;
They went completely bad.

The hens were selling loco weed
In every nasty den.
But ducks who dared to mention this
Were labeled "anti-hen."

The hens all preached of tolerance.
They invoked the Golden Rule,
But they subsidized the indigent,
The greedy, and the fool.

At last the very dumbest ducks
Began to smell a rat.
"This mayor is no good!" they cried,
"And we will soon fix that!"

But the hens had planned for even this;
A candidate they had
Whom even wise old ducks believed
Just never could be bad.

This hen-tool duck whipped the geese;
A soldier-duck was he.
Although the hens had set him up,
The ducks all thought him free.

This hen-tool got elected,
Through ignorance and greed,
Through hennish lies in press and speech,
Through bribes of chicken feed.

The hens now kicked the ducks around
Without a blush of shame,
Until the mayor ran the town
In nothing else but name.

They pumped the swimming pool all dry;
They taught the ducks to crow.
While duckish numbers dwindled,
The hens' began to grow.

The hens stirred up the happy crows
From out the piney wood,
To come and mix with all the ducks
In the name of brotherhood.

Things got so bad that fifty ducks,
Who knew of days gone by,
Took up their wives and children
And decided that they’d fly.

They flew through storm and tempest;
They froze, and many died.
But on they drove, until, at last,
A lovely lake they spied.

They settled down exhausted,
But soon went straight to work
To build and clear and cultivate,
No danger did they shirk.

Now, after many years of toil,
This little band had grown.
The fields around were full of grain
From seeds that they had sown.

The first ducks now were long since dead;
Their struggles long had ceased.
Through hard work and suffering,
Their joys had been increased.

One day near the entrance gate
There was an awful din;
A hundred hens, all out of breath,
Were begging to come in.

"Oh, let us in!" the poor birds cried,
"Before we do expire!
"'Tis only by the merest inch . . ."
And now our tale repeats itself entire.


Awesome....hens = Jews

 

[wise_owl]

If this were true...it is rather strange that the 10 stuck together and hated Joseph....while Benjamin was only born after Joseph was already thrown in the well and sold as a slave

Some of the reasons for his half-brothers hate.....

Joseph had a big mouth, he was always talking about his dreams / visions which when interpreted meant that all his brothers will bow down to him (which came true when he became the governor over all of Egypt and his brothers had to come and bow to him to buy grains during 7 year famine).

Jacob loved Joseph more than his other sons since he was born to his favorite wife Rachel after many years of marriage.

Joseph being a honest kid always told the misdeeds of his brothers to his father so they considered him a rat to be removed.

 

[Dubious]

1. but jews and hindus were even then and are even now despite both christian and muslim rules and there best tactiks to conert all of india but still there are many ghairatmand hindus who will love to die than to surrender to any other faith and same is the condition of jews

Yea usually most Indians talk from experience from this experience every Indian is about 2000 yrs old! Where is your proof mate?

2. who ever survived or not i dont want to go intofancy names but point that is relevent today is that despite best efforts by both christians and muslim or pagan romans jews survived and now are ruling allthe so caled "modern world"

Good to know you admitted how they are not masoom

3.well i can give you endless fotos and videos of muslims all over the world showing there will to kill all those who dont want to exept islam let alone jews as for arabs well why are you trying to shame yourself lolzz they call you "taal rafique " & "haza muskin" and still pakistanies dont let a chance to glorify arabs when we all know howarabs treat pakistanies in all the oil rich arab nations

I see who you watch hence no need to even waste my time answering this! Just plain rant

Some of the reasons for his half-brothers hate.....

Joseph had a big mouth, he was always talking about his dreams / visions which when interpreted meant that all his brothers will bow down to him (which came true when he became the governor over all of Egypt and his brothers had to come and bow to him to buy grains during 7 year famine).

Jacob loved Joseph more than his other sons since he was born to his favorite wife Rachel after many years of marriage.

Joseph being a honest kid always told the misdeeds of his brothers to his father so they considered him a rat to be removed.

Either quote some scholar or some article no point you say based on what you think there are over thousands of members here on PDF if each types what they feel or think then basically you will need to swift through thousands of tales!!

 

[GURU DUTT]

Yea usually most Indians talk from experience from this experience every Indian is about 2000 yrs old! Where is your proof mate?
Good to know you admitted how they are not masoom

I see who you watch hence no need to even waste my time answering this! Just plain rant

so now your coming back to proofs and so called rants ..... good luck keep up with this denail mindset

 

[Hulk]

which documentary.

Who made it?



your list is inaccurate and kind of biased. Not sure it is due inaccurate documentary or your personal bias.

Thank you

Go search for Prophet Muhammad on YouTube there is one with 3 hour duration. How can it be personal view when I knew nothing. I just summerized the documentary.