Help me understand Jew history

[Contrarian]

That's why U.N. should've just went with Hitler's plan of settling Jews in sparsely populated Madagascar.

We have a military presence and naval base in Madagascar

 

[FaujHistorian]

OK you seem to be a fan of zakir nail who tries to hide behind these so called context reading.I read enough of Quran and I know what I am talking about.Anyway my posts are intended for non Muslims who want to learn about Jew islam rivalry.I know I can't change Muslims opinion who are occupied with preconceived notions and are hell bent on defending their religion with whatever irrational means and arguments they can use.
No hard feelings brother.wish you happy ramzan

Thanks for the good wishes.

But I am surprised to see you say "hide behind these so called context reading".

What the heck does that mean.

All the reading is with context. That's what education is all about.
Is there a reading WITHOUT context?

Please let me know.

buy an english translation of quran and it explain everything

Quran Explorer


All translations. All the way.

Although some translations are horribly bad. So one must look at different "translators" to understand fully.

Anyway acquisition of truth and knowledge is a lifelong effort. No short cut there.

 

[KingMamba]

The jews were judged as per Torah and then masacred. Is this prescribed in the Quran? And for which people? And why is this not followed today?

The Quran states its laws are only for Muslims so while it literally does not state such a thing the non Muslims were judged according to their own books. That has always been the case in the Islamic Caliphates and by the time of the Ottomans there were separate courts made just for this purpose controlled by the non Muslim leadership. However there were always exceptions as a non Muslim could choose Islamic court instead of their own if they so chose and were usually obliged to if it involved a capital offense against a Muslim.

As for why it is not today well there is no Islamic state but there is also the fact that colonialism has left British common law in many Muslims countries which serves as like I guess the universal court and then some Muslim countries have sharia courts for Muslims.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The jews were judged as per Torah and then masacred. Is this prescribed in the Quran? And for which people? And why is this not followed today?

yes. Quran says, judge Jews based on their book and judge christians by theirs.

The Quran states its laws are only for Muslims so while it literally does not state such a thing the non Muslims were judged according to their own books.

Hate to turn this thread into Quran discussion. but your sentence didn't make sense.

 

[KingMamba]

yes. Quran says, judge Jews based on their book and judge christians by theirs.



Hate to turn this thread into Quran discussion. but your sentence didn't make sense.

Afaik it does not literally state judge non-Muslim by their books but historical precedent since the time of the Prophet made this the case, I may be wrong but I do not remember reading any such verse on my last reading of the Quran. That is what I meant.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Afaik it does not literally state judge non-Muslim by their books but historical precedent since the time of the Prophet made this the case, I may be wrong but I do not remember reading any such verse on my last reading of the Quran. That is what I meant.

Please read Sura Maidah first 52 verses.

They provide proper context and urge us to judge Jewish people as per Torah and judge Christians as per Bible.

it is clearer than a sunny day.

And it is easy to understand for everyone.

Sadly hypocrite Mullahs and Ayatullahs have tried to change Quran by misinterpreting these verses.

Peace

5:43 - judge the jewish people by Torah
5:47 - Judge Christians by Gospels
5:48: Judge Muslims by Quran.

 

[notsuperstitious]

The Quran states its laws are only for Muslims so while it literally does not state such a thing the non Muslims were judged according to their own books. That has always been the case in the Islamic Caliphates and by the time of the Ottonans there were seperate courts made just for this purpose controlled by the non Muslim leadership. However there were always exceptions as a non Muslim could choose Islamic court instead of their own if they so chose and were usually obliged to if it involved a capital offense against a Muslim.

As for why it is not today well there is no Islamic state but there is also the fact that colonialism has left British common law in many Muslims countries which serves as like I guess the universal court and then some Muslim countries have sharia courts for Muslims.

@FaujHistorian and KM

You guys do realise what kind of pandora's box we are potentially opening here. Do not want to do that. Although I would appreciate a reference to the Quranic verse that FH mentioned. Edit- looks like he's already provided it. Thanks.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian and KM

You guys do realise what kind of pandora's box we are potentially opening here. Do not want to do that. Although I would appreciate a reference to the Quranic verse that FH mentioned. Edit- looks like he's already provided it. Thanks.

Bhai

why would this be pandoras box.

Pandora box has all the bad things in it.

I am suggesting to open Quran (the source of light and good things).

Hope you understand.

 

[KingMamba]

Please read Sura Maidah first 52 verses.

They provide proper context and urge us to judge Jewish people as per Torah and judge Christians as per Bible.

it is clearer than a sunny day.

And it is easy to understand for everyone.

Sadly hypocrite Mullahs and Ayatullahs have tried to change Quran by misinterpreting these verses.

Peace

5:43 - judge the jewish people by Torah
5:47 - Judge Christians by Gospels
5:48: Judge Muslims by Quran.

You are right I found it already but thanks.

@FaujHistorian and KM

You guys do realise what kind of pandora's box we are potentially opening here. Do not want to do that. Although I would appreciate a reference to the Quranic verse that FH mentioned. Edit- looks like he's already provided it. Thanks.

What pandora box? We have no problem discussing such things.

@FaujHistorian I don't see how one could "misinterpret" these verses when they are pretty clear lol more like they just disregard them. That being said do you think Pakistan should open up Christian law courts, Hindu law courts etc etc for its minorities today?

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are right I found it already but thanks.



What pandora box? We have no problem discussing such things.
?

You are welcome.

@FaujHistorian I don't see how one could "misinterpret" these verses when they are pretty clear lol more like they just disregard them. ?

Fantastic. That should be the spirit.

That being said do you think Pakistan should open up Christian law courts, Hindu law courts etc etc for its minorities today?

Jurisprudence is matter of law making body. aka Parliament.

If Christians, Jews, and Hindus want to have specific clauses. Then it is upto the parliament to update our penal code.

Hope you understand.

 

[Contrarian]

That being said do you think Pakistan should open up Christian law courts, Hindu law courts etc etc for its minorities today?

You will never be able to foster a feeling of nationality in your people if you have 2 yardsticks to judge citizens of the same Republic.

 

[KingMamba]

You will never be able to foster a feeling of nationality in your people if you have 2 yardsticks to judge citizens of the same Republic.

It is history that unites a nation not laws, laws are just there to keep shit from hitting the fan. If Hindus and Christians feel that their own laws are better for them then they should be given the right to at least choose that option.

 

[Contrarian]

It is history that unites a nation not laws, laws are just there to keep shit from hitting the fan. If Hindus and Christians feel that their own laws are better for them then they should be given the right to at least choose that option.

Everything unites a nation - history, laws, culture.
If your people feel some laws favour one particular group, they will never support you and seek every opportunity to put you down, regardless whether they are Muslim laws, Christian laws, Hindu laws or martian laws.

All have to be given an even playing field.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You will never be able to foster a feeling of nationality in your people if you have 2 yardsticks to judge citizens of the same Republic.

British penal code that is being followed in Bharat, pakistan, Bdesh etc. is general enough to be used by pretty much everyone.

the only separate sets could be marriage, divorce, death, birth and holy days etc.

Even then couples will most likely decide the main law as it provides most protection as compared to individual laws.

Hope you understand.

 

[KingMamba]

Everything unites a nation - history, laws, culture.
If your people feel some laws favour one particular group, they will never support you and seek every opportunity to put you down, regardless whether they are Muslim laws, Christian laws, Hindu laws or martian laws.

All have to be given an even playing field.

I think you are misconstruing my point, nobody will be forced into a court that does not favor them they will just have the opportunity to choose courts of their preference however there is always common law for inter-religious cases.