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Heavy casualties for Indian occupiers in last 24 hrs in occupied Kashmir

@Joe Shearer ill reply to what you wrote in a couple hours. Have an exam rn šŸ˜‚
Best of luck. What subject?

Didn't know that you believed that the treatment of Indian Muslims is an "internal matter of India".

Human rights is never an internal matter.
Please read what I wrote. Did I ever say that? I was saying that it was not an exclusive right of Pakistan.I am reproducing it to make sure that there is no misunderstanding.

As for their being your brothers in faith, it was Jinnah who made it clear that Pakistan was not being created as protector of Muslim Indians; Muslim Indians, he made clear more than once, would have to fend for themselves.
 
@JF-17 block3
@Huffal
@-blitzkrieg-
@kingQamaR
@khansaheeb

I'll tell you something, you are making a mistake about Indians who are on PDF. Except for one or two suicide trolls, who come in trailing a stream of filthy abuse, and are soon escorted off by the Mods, the rest of the Indians want to discuss military matters, in a cordial, or at least a peaceful atmosphere. Nobody in this lot has negative feelings about Pakistan, or Pakistanis, or Pakistani ways. Competitive, yes, not willing to give an inch, yes, looking for battle all the time, no.

It's up to you.

You've read enough mail from others saying more or less the same thing. So here it is: if you wish, go ahead and waste your time being rude to people and thinking that you have scored a point or won a battle. You will neither have scored a point nor won a battle, just given up the possible chance of a good discussion.

Those who don't feel this love pulling them like a river, those who don't drink dawn like a cup of springwater or take in sunset like a supper, those who don't want to change, let them sleep.

Rumi
 
That's almost ground zero.

If these are NOT accepted, why even set out to discuss anything?

Take it that these expressions are passports to a dialogue.

You can check with any other Indian. They will agree with what you think should be the base line, and will look surprised that you even ask.

Let me put it this way, if I say Bipin Rawat was a ā€œterroristā€ or hurl abuses at him, is there anything left to discuss? If I mock his death is there anything left to discuss between me and you? Answer is probably No. Itā€™s the same when Indians mock our martyrs or heros.
Some discussions canā€™t be with some people. I wonā€™t go on discussing hijab with an Indian member whoā€™s Hindu because he wonā€™t know anything on Islam.
If Indian members agree with me then they should show they agree as well. Just look through threads and see some of their responses.
If I go to an Indian forum and join it, I will act like a guest and remember Iā€™m a guest cuz after all itā€™s an Indian forum. Same applies for Indians on Pakistani forum.

One, reporting news is tricky. I think XYZ is reliable, and report something from there that deeply hurts your feelings. You think ABC is reliable, and report something that deeply hurts my feelings. So what exactly is reliable? If you think Indian media admits heavy casualties, why should any Indian object? If any Indian objects, are you sure about the authenticity of the Indian media you are quoting?

It's all shades of grey, there's nothing black and white.

On a Pakistani forum it would make sense I post only Pakistani sources or sources seen as reliable by Pakistanis. Others might not see it as reliable or offending but itā€™s the risk you take when you go to a Pakistani forum. Likewise on an Indian forum I would expect all pro Indian sources which might be offending to Pakistanis.
Also the heavy casualties, I posted a Pakistani source but the news was confirmed by Indian news. If Indian news is lying then itā€™s between Indians and their news channels. Indian news even published a video going with it.

No, it isn't.

It isn't about Indian forums; you are not leading PDF and fighting back against those fora. If you want to do that, get enrolled as a member there and tell them what you think. To take out your frustrations with other places on members of your own forum doesn't compute.

Pakistani defence forum should promote its stance and counter its rivals stance no?
If Indians on Indian defence forums post than itā€™s only logically Pakistanis on Pakistani defence forums give a reply Iā€™m the same manner. Why take my frustrations to an Indian forum when a Pakistani forum is available for me to expose Indians narrative? Why on a Pakistani forum should I not speak up Kashmir or Indian Muslims or any other separatist movements in india when Indian forums have whole sections dedicated to insurgencies in Pakistan? As a Pakistani Iā€™ll be posting on a Pakistani forum not an Indian one.

Why is it your jugular vein? What does it control that you need and don't have control over? Don't say 'water', please; the fairest treatment that Pakistan gets is on the distribution of waters. There has never been a realistic dispute.

As for their being your brothers in faith, it was Jinnah who made it clear that Pakistan was not being created as protector of Muslim Indians; Muslim Indians, he made clear more than once, would have to fend for themselves.

Itā€™s jugular vein because Quiad e Azam called it that and it has been Pakistans stance that it is for the past 75 years +. It also should have went to Pakistan because it was legally Pakistanā€™s since it was Muslim majority. No the maharaja signing away to india isnā€™t enough for it to be part of india because the dogra regime it self was an occupier. One occupier canā€™t accede occupied land to another. When Poonch rebellion happened, when rebellions in Gilgit happened, Muslims of J&K made it clear that they want Pakistan and donā€™t except dogra regime either. It was Poonchi rebels who invited Pakistan to help them and genocides like Jammu genocide in which maharajas troops massacred 200k-600k Muslims and turned a Muslim majority Jammu region into Muslim minority, it only proves that it was right for us to invade J&K when Muslims of J&K asked us for help. We were an invited force while Indians were uninvited to the valley. We canā€™t let the blood of our martyrs go to waste, too much blood has been spilled for Kashmir not to be our jugular vein.

Jinnah told Indians Muslims go migrate to Pakistan but many Indian Muslims didnā€™t believe in Pakistanā€™s cause and existence. Jinnah warned them about the threat of rss and hindutwa but they didnā€™t listen. Many millions did migrate to Pakistan but the rest preferred to stay behind in India.
Now their left to fend for themselves because of the mistakes they made about staying behind in india when Jinnah warned them of the dangers of it. Even though many Indian Muslims are still against our existence, we as Muslims still stand up in defence for them. Their stuck fending for them selves cuz they were too busy cutting the hand of their fellow Muslims to appease others. Now their suffering the consequences of it but still is Pakistani Muslims stand up for them even tho Indian Muslims hate us more then rss which lynches them.

Do they? Apart from a bigoted government that hunts trouble, who has been highlighting the plight of Hindus in Pakistan? Probably Pakistani media do that more than anyone else.

We come back to the same point. So shout and scream as much as you want. Leave PDF members who are Indian out of it.

Do people even know the ground relatives of Hindus in Pakistan? Iā€™m from interior sindh from Umerkot and Mirpur Khas, which have the highest population of Hindus in sindh, Iā€™ve seen the ground realities. 99% of the violence Hindus face isnā€™t religiously motivated there rather itā€™s personal issues with others. ā€œForced conversionsā€ is also a lie being told because when a Hindu converts to Islam by choice itā€™s still labeled as ā€œforcedā€. Many dawah organizations operate in interior sindh which invite people to Islam and many Hindus convert by their own will. India has many thousands of Hindus converting to Islam yearly, is that also ā€œforcedā€?

Posting a thread about situation of Indian Muslims doesnā€™t mean Iā€™m calling out Indian members on pdf. They can simply ignore the thread. But donā€™t expect me to not post about Indian Muslims on a Pakistani thread but Islamic republic of Pakistan cares about Muslims worldwide including in India. Why Indian members feel attacked by me posting threads on rss terrorists attacking Indian Muslims. Or they feel attacked because they support rss?

That ship has sailed. Pakistani courts have had no hesitation in convicting him. So there has to be a point at which you have to say that the game's up, as everyone including the judiciary, the administration and the military are agreed that he has committed crimes and has to be punished. If you don't follow Pakistan's law and constitution, that, of course, is another thing altogether.

Check what he was convicted for VS what Indians want him to be convicted for. Pakistani know the reality and know heā€™s innocent. We have retired generals making YouTube videos in his support.
The reality is heā€™s innocent and hasnā€™t committed any crimes BUT is being sent to jail because of FATF pressure since the last point in the 27 point list was punishing Hafiz Saaed and others. We all know the reality and Hafiz Saaed will forever be respected by true Pakistanis. Indians are free to believe what they want to.
will get respect. You withhold respect from anyone because of something someone else has done, you voluntarily give up claims to being respected yourself.

My post to you four, among many, many others, was merely to point out the obvious. It is up to you to accept or not to accept these things. We won't suffer; your mature members are already there to talk to us, sometimes to tease us, sometimes to scold us, sometimes to laugh at us, sometimes to look down at us, but never crossing the line.

Check the posts on the forum and see for yourself.

Thatā€™s fine. We ā€œimmatureā€ members will continue to post the reality and continue to use Pakistani Defence forum to spread the truth and speak up for the voiceless in india.
Us ā€œimmatureā€ members on Pakistani defence forum will continue to promote the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and its official stance because we donā€™t need Indian approval to post on a forum made for us.
 
Let me put it this way, if I say Bipin Rawat was a ā€œterroristā€ or hurl abuses at him, is there anything left to discuss? If I mock his death is there anything left to discuss between me and you? Answer is probably No. Itā€™s the same when Indians mock our martyrs or heros.
Sure.

Where is the controversy on that?

Some discussions canā€™t be with some people. I wonā€™t go on discussing hijab with an Indian member whoā€™s Hindu because he wonā€™t know anything on Islam.
Then don't discuss it.

In case you haven't noticed, a discussion is between two (at least) willing participants. A single person cannot be in a discussion.

Second, you will notice that mocking Hindu customs is hardly suitable; the Hindu will say that you know nothing about Sanatan Dharma, so he doesn't want to talk about it to you.

If Indian members agree with me then they should show they agree as well. Just look through threads and see some of their responses.
As I said, these can arise only by mutual consent. What responses would there be, if there was no initiation?

You need to show an example to make your point clearly.
 
@JF-17 block3
@Huffal
@-blitzkrieg-
@kingQamaR
@khansaheeb

I'll tell you something, you are making a mistake about Indians who are on PDF. Except for one or two suicide trolls, who come in trailing a stream of filthy abuse, and are soon escorted off by the Mods, the rest of the Indians want to discuss military matters, in a cordial, or at least a peaceful atmosphere. Nobody in this lot has negative feelings about Pakistan, or Pakistanis, or Pakistani ways. Competitive, yes, not willing to give an inch, yes, looking for battle all the time, no.

It's up to you.

You've read enough mail from others saying more or less the same thing. So here it is: if you wish, go ahead and waste your time being rude to people and thinking that you have scored a point or won a battle. You will neither have scored a point nor won a battle, just given up the possible chance of a good discussion.
I know they are those that are willing to have a legit conversation with others and willing to show civility, but it seems you make up a minority on PDF.

I salute those that do though

Such as @rvats @Joe Shearer and blue indian.

Im missing the maverick tho. His posts were funny
 
If I go to an Indian forum and join it, I will act like a guest and remember Iā€™m a guest cuz after all itā€™s an Indian forum. Same applies for Indians on Pakistani forum.
Again, that's a given. What have you seen different? Someone daring to disagree with you?

The trouble is that these are all, each and everyone of them, general statements that sound good but mean nothing by themselves.

I know they are those that are willing to have a legit conversation with others and willing to show civility, but it seems you make up a minority on PDF.

I salute those that do though

Such as @rvats @Joe Shearer and blue indian.

Im missing the maverick tho. His posts were funny
@rvats is WAY above my paygrade. I don't know blue indian.

My point is, if such Indians are a minority on PDF, why don't you grow the number by encouraging these few, and by reminding the others that there is a way to be that helps you to join a conversation?
 

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